[Cosmoline]

I found a nice old S&W .38 Special that LOOKS like the "Military and Police" and "Victory" models, but doesn't say either on the frame. It just has some patent dates on it. Price is $200. Is this one of the pre-1920's S&W's and if so is that a good price?

[Old Fuff]

If it doesn't say "Smith & Wesson" on the barrel and have the company trademark stamped on the side of the frame (or more likely, the sideplate) it is probably a cheap copy made in Spain. Many of these were imported into the United States, Mexico, Centarl America and South America during the 1920's and '30's. If so, don't buy it. They are mostly junk.

[Cosmoline]

It does say S&W on the side, and it looks like a Model 10, but it doesn't say "Model 10" or Military & Police. I'm way outside my usual areas of expertise with these revolvers, but I'm thinking it may be a pre-1920 Model 10. Yet it has about 95% of the blue and looks great.

[Old Fuff]

Smith & Wesson didn't mark the revolvers "Military & Police." It was however, cataloged under that name. As I sit here I'm looking a an early 1930's S&W catalog that shows it under that name. If you are SURE it is indeed a Smith & Wesson and can get the serial number (stamped on the bottom of the butt) we can tell you a lot more. In general, the gun could have been made anywhere from 1902 through 1947 when they stopped stamping the patent dates on the top of the barrel. If it has a square butt it should have checkered walnut grips. Round-butt guns usually had black, hard rubber grips. The "1905 Hand Ejector/Military & Police" didn't become the "model 10" until 1957.

[4v50 Gary]

Could be a rebarrelled job too. I've got one that is a hybrid aftermarket gun. S&W frame, numnuts (Numrich)? bbl. Anyway for $10 I can't argue.

One of these days I'm going to get a HB and make it into a PPC gun. :D

[Cosmoline]

Thanks for the info. I just saw a few more of these M&P/Model 10's at a different store. Never noticed them before. THey are a lot lighter than the Rugers I'm used to, and have a fixed rear sight that won't catch on stuff. I'm thinking about getting a 3" or 4" one for my urban carry piece. My Security Six is just too heavy and bulky.

[Frenchy]

Cosmoline,

The serial number on the butt (plus letter prefix if it has one) would go a long way in identifying this gun and date of manufacture. Replace the last 2 or 3 digits with "X's"

[mec]

Here's the patent line on a 1905 4th change. the 4th change didn't change much from before 1920 until after 1945
http://www.milesfortis.com/mcump/images/mcump/16/mp_addline.jpg

[Jim K]

S&W didn't start to use model numbers until 1958, so no pre-WWII gun would have a number. Nor were "Victory" models marked that, although the serial numbers begin with "V". Technically, identical M&P revolvers without "V" numbers are not "Victory" models, but they are often called that anyway.

The term "Victory Model" came about when M&P serial numbers went to 999,999, and S&W decided to use a letter prefix. "A" was obvious, but some unknown marketing genius decided on "V for Victory" and the "Victory Model" was born. The term was never used in government contracts or correspondence (where the revolvers were always called the Military and Police or M&P), only in S&W advertising.

Jim