Best and Cheapest HD/SD AK ammo?


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Monkeybear
August 9, 2007, 03:00 AM
Looking to use my AK as a defensive weapon for my home. What is the cheapest ammo that will work? I basically want something I can practice with and I don't have a clear understanding of the differences between terminal ballistics of rifles and handguns. With handguns you just buy something expensive that comes in boxes of 20 instead of 50. JK, but seriously I know next to nothing about defensive rifle ammo. What would you get?

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Gun Wielding Maniac
August 9, 2007, 03:16 AM
You're about to get plowed under with comments telling you how the AK is an inappropriate home defense weapon, due to overpenetration, lawyers, baby-killing-evil aura, etc.
I'm assuming you are using a 7.62 AK. My advice to you, for home defense purposes, would be to get a couple of boxes of winchester or remington soft point hunting ammunition and test fire a few rounds out of your gun with the magazine you intend to use for home defense, just to make sure it cycles and hits to POA at 25 meters or less.
Be aware that rifle rounds go through lots of stuff, including several interior walls. If you live in an apartment building, this could be an issue.

ArchAngelCD
August 9, 2007, 03:34 AM
Like GWM just said, the AK really isn't a HD gun because of the round it fires. In any case, Wolf makes cheap ammo that you can burn up in both solid point and HP. At the speed an AK round travels, I really don't think you need to worry about the type of ammo you fire through it. Anything you fire will go through several walls before it stops, hopefully there isn't an innocent person somewhere in between.

Kilgor
August 9, 2007, 03:41 AM
Not cheap, but the best... Georgia Arms ballistic tip.

http://www.georgia-arms.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=2750

Nomad101bc
August 9, 2007, 04:13 AM
HP's are less likely to over penetrate however. Dont hate me for this but I think an AK-47 is a poor chioce for home defense and would count against you were a home defense trail to go to jury. People see it and inherantly think terrorist and evil gun but hey if you live a good state should not be an issue. IF you live in say florida your fine but if you live in the Northeast no way.

DMK
August 9, 2007, 08:27 AM
HP's are less likely to over penetrate however.HP rifle rounds act very different than HP pistol rounds. Rifle HPs have very small holes in the tip and are not designed to expand. Rifle HPs are generally designed for match shooting and the tip is just a byproduct of the manufacture process.

In rifle ammo, softpoints expand, acting more like pistol HPs do.

Some rifle HPs have very fragile construction and basically come apart when they tumble in a soft body at high velocities (fragmentation). However, most Russian HPs do not do this. They are not fragile enough and act like FMJ. In fact, many Russian rounds have copper washed steel jackets. Supposedly, Wolf Classic HPs fragment, but I've never seen any proof of this.

GTSteve03
August 9, 2007, 09:29 AM
Supposedly, Wolf Classic HPs fragment, but I've never seen any proof of this.
Erm... proof was posted just a couple days ago in this forum.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=3614574&postcount=4

JWarren
August 9, 2007, 10:21 AM
IF you live in say florida your fine but if you live in the Northeast no way.

No danger here. I'll never live in a restrictive state again.

-- John

DMK
August 9, 2007, 10:32 AM
Quote:
Supposedly, Wolf Classic HPs fragment, but I've never seen any proof of this.
Erm... proof was posted just a couple days ago in this forum.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost....74&postcount=4I hadn't seen that thread. I wonder what velocity and range that was?

We need to get Brassfetcher to shoot some of this into a Gel block.

buck00
August 9, 2007, 10:49 AM
If you shoot an AK-47 into an intruder at HD distances (5 to 10 yards) the round will zip through them like sh-- through a goose. I don't care if its HP, SP, or some special hand load.

So don't fantasize about a 7.62 x 39 round mushrooming in a perp's body at 5 yards. :uhoh:


Is an AK a good HD weapon? I don't that question has ever been asked on THR. Ever.

Kilgor
August 9, 2007, 11:31 AM
...don't fantasize about a 7.62 x 39 round mushrooming in a perp's body at 5 yards

1. Closer = faster = more likely to expand, not less.

2. Evidence from ballistic tips and soft points in deer and hog show very good expansion. As good as any other rifle round using quality bullets.

3. Why would a bullet expand in a 90 pound deer, but not a 150+ pound person?

Kilgor
August 9, 2007, 11:37 AM
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3618387#post3618387

Gun Wielding Maniac
August 9, 2007, 12:32 PM
Ummm... I never agreed that the AK wasn't a good home defense weapon. Making that statement is too broad. Sometimes, penetration is a really good thing... and honestly, we know nothing of this person's living circumstances. I merely wanted to point out the ad nauseum points on a home defense gun.

I use a 5.45 AK for home defense.

the naked prophet
August 9, 2007, 01:34 PM
Look about halfway down the page, it lists good ammo choices for rifles, including the 7.62x39 and others.

http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=237

dodging230grainers
August 9, 2007, 02:27 PM
I'm not sure where monkeybear lives, but I live in suburbia where I am surrounded by houses made out of stucco. This means I go to the 12 gauge first. Should that not do the job, or I run out of ammo, or multiple attackers are present, I wouldn't hesitate to grab my Arsenal AK.

I probably wouldn't use the AK as my first choice, Monkeybear, but I'd keep it handy/nearby incase you have no other choice. Use a shotgun or pistol first. Also, remember that discharging any rifle cartridge indoors will be defeaning.

the naked prophet
August 9, 2007, 03:30 PM
I don't know about you guys, but having fired both my AK and a 5" .40 pistol without hearing protection, the rifle is not nearly as loud as the pistol was.

Also, the OP may not have, or for his own reasons may have chosen not to use, other weapons as his HD weapon. It's not like he said "I'm going to buy a rusty Lorcin .25 auto for $450, what's a good SD ammo?" but he asked a reasonable question about ammo for a perfectly serviceable home defense rifle. I honestly think the issue of overpenetration is vastly overblown. Unless you get into an extended gunfight, there aren't likely to be many rounds going through the walls - and a soft point round like the Winchester Super-X 123 grain PSP should mushroom on wallboard and lose velocity pretty quickly.

Monkeybear
August 10, 2007, 04:15 AM
Thanks for your helpful replies. I doubt that in the case of a home invasion that I will even be able to react in time to save my life, my apt is so small. However if I am fortunate enough to be presented the opportunity to protect myself I pretty much want to be able to use any of my firearms. I only have two rifles, an AR15 and a Yugo Underfolder AK and three hand guns; a .357, a CZ75BD and a HKP2000sk in .40sw. With the handguns I can use one as easily as the next although none comforts me more next to my bed at night than the Security Six. I am beginning to develop a familiarity with my AR and I would also like to do the same with my AK. I guess what I am trying to say is that if I find myself in mortal danger and for whatever reason my AK is the closest/most accessible firearm I would like to be able to use it to defend myself but I would like to do so in the safest and most responsible way possible. Part of that involves being as reliably accurate as possible to avoid dangerous stray shots which is where the cheap part comes into play (practice) and part of that is having ammo that is suitable for HD.

Soybomb
August 10, 2007, 05:33 AM
http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t=001359
When one moves to a expanding/fragmenting design in 7.62 x 39 mm, terminal performance is significantly enhanced. The best 7.62 x 39 mm loads we have tested to date are the Winchester 123 gr JSP (X76239) and the Lapua 125 gr JSP. Out of a 16” barrel they perform somewhat like lightweight .30-30 loads:

Lap 125 gr JSP
Bare Gelatin: vel=2316 f/s, pen=17.3”, RD=.62”, RL=.43”, RW=122.6 gr
Car Windshield: vel=2323 f/s, pen=14.8”, RD=.60”, RL=.40”, RW=110.6 gr

Win 123 gr JSP
Bare Gel: vel=2253 f/s, pen=14.4”, rd=0.56”, rw=90.1gr
Pretty much the same results when going through car windshields.

chris in va
August 10, 2007, 06:20 AM
I had a Mossberg 12ga as my HD gun, but my friend came to the realization she probably wouldn't be able to figure out the whole racking thing under duress plus the buckshot recoil problem.

I now have my Saiga x39 sitting in the corner with Winchester SP and feel just fine with that. I do however live in my own house instead of an apartment.

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