[Mikebnice]

A friend of mine sent me this I think I prefer "GUNFU" than kungfu ;)


http://www.studymartialarts.com/events.html

[SLCscottie]

Looks like he is well practiced. This only works if the BG is right next to him.

[nwilliams]

Interesting.

I've been doing Aikido for many years and we do some techniques that are similar, but what he does seems more along the lines of Jujitsu. I've seen professional knife fighters use similar moves, my guess is he probably modified various knife countering techniques to make them applicable to handgun.

Thanks for sharing

[sacp81170a]

Nice technique, as long as your training partner is compliant, stands still and puts the gun where you want him to in preparation for your disarm move. :rolleyes:

(I hold instructor's certifications in Tang Soo Do, **** Silat, Judo, Wado Ryu and Kendo.)

I'm not saying the guy isn't a skilled martial artist, but he suffers from the same "demo syndrome" that a lot of folks do. As long as your moves work in a staged instructional setting you get a false impression of their effectiveness. Try the same moves against someone who has been trained in firearms retention and you'd quickly see the flaws. BTW, as a knife fighter, I live for someone to try a disarm like the ones illustrated. :evil:

[brentn]

Thats pretty neat, never seen that before. He seems skilled, but like sacp said it would be interesting to see how he applies his technique in a hostile situation.

nice post.

[geekWithA.45]

WHOA!

Two words:

TRAINING DRONES.

There's a really good reason for them.
We call it Rule 1: Every Gun Is Loaded.
Sooner or later, there's gonna be a tragedy in his future.



Laying that aside, disarm techniques are good to know, and good to know how to avoid.

[Z_Infidel]

Sometimes the point of a technique like this can be missed. No worthwhile instructor will teach a disarm as if it will work in a wide variety of situations. Gun disarms can work in situations where the gun is held at the distances shown in the video -- especially when you consider that the person with the gun is probably not expecting such an action. There is never a guarantee of success, but if you are in such a situation and are pretty sure you are about to be shot then the ability to perform these techniques will be valuable and might save your life.

If the gun is beyond reach these techniques won't work, and they aren't meant to. Also, "disarm" may not be the best term for the techniques, as the goal is to avoid being shot and possibly turn the weapon against the aggressor -- not necessarily to take the gun away.

A knife is a different weapon, so should be treated differently. Again, the goal should not be to "disarm" but rather avoid thrusts and slashes and disrupt the assailant's ability to continue the attack as quickly as possible. And you don't try it unless you have no choice. Knives are just such deadly weapons up close in a skilled person's hands...

One more point is that empty-handed techniques against a weapon have the best chance of success when the attacker isn't expecting such a defense and is not extremely skilled in fighting with the type of weapon they are holding. Against someone highly trained in the use of a weapon such things are very very difficult and odds of success much lower.

[Cosmoline]

He should be using a replica for this!! Otherwise as noted it will all end in tears. And he ought to have some sort of alarm set to go off if the trigger is squeezed, so he can see if he was fast enough.

The biggest problem I see with it is nothing stops the firearm from going off upon impact with the fellow's hands. It looks more like a knife block to deflect a thrust. If you're going to move for a firearm, the FIRST contact between your hand and the weapon should be in a place which will instantly prevent it from firing. Otherwise the jolt of your hand hitting the shooter's arms or whatever is more than enough to set it off, even if the shooter is taken by surprise.

[Art Eatman]

wouldn't load for me...

Back in the late 1970s, early 1980s, a guy in Austintatious was teaching unarmed self defense. Part of the course included dealing with guys with handguns.

Basically, if the bad guy's within about six fieet, you have good odds. Part of this is predicated on the *average* bad guy not having had serious training of his own--which is common.

The sequence that was taught was, 1) Clear the body. IOW, move such that when (not if) the gun goes bang, you're not hit. 2) Control the weapon. As in, grab that sucker. Then, 3) Attack. These are not separate steps, of course; it's all a flowing sequence done as fast as you can.

My overall point, of course, is that it's nothing new, nor is it particularly complex or difficult.

Art

[DoubleTapDrew]

Hmm. Try it with simunitions, someone who is really trying to shoot him, and knows anything about weapon retention. A lot of those disarming techniques look really cool and they get the gun away or turn it back on the student but I can't help but see that it looks like there's always time for the BG to get off a shot or two while the muzzle is still on the demonstrator after his hands start to move.

[phoglund]

A lot of good points made in the discussion so far. These sorts of techniques can work if practiced simply because the defender moves first and gains the advantage of surprise.

Some critics of such techniques seem to fixate on these skills as if they are expected to be the only answer to a confrontation with an armed adversary. Techniques such as these should be looked upon as tools in an arsenal of self defense. Most if not all of us on the Highroad have different firearms for different situations/purposes. They are tools in a box to be used as the situation requires. Unarmed self defense is another tool to put in the box for when a situation arises that for what ever reason (and there are many) an individual is confronted by an armed adversary while unarmed. My humble opinion is that the more tools you have at your disposal the more likely you will have the best tool for a self defense situation should one arise. More simply put: The more tools/skills/options you have the more likely you are to survive.

[sacp81170a]

The more tools/skills/options you have the more likely you are to survive.

The problem comes when you're betting your life on a tool(technique) that hasn't been tested in at least semi-realistic conditions. That's what I see here, again, the "demo syndrome". It looks cool, but he's not moving off the line of attack(the bore) and the training partner is compliant, not resisting as he would in a real fight. I've done lots of retention training with Sims, and it doesn't take a black belt to give someone who's trying to take a gun away a very difficult time. The simplest thing to do is 1) Not stick the gun out to be taken away, 2) Pull the trigger repeatedly, and 3) If he does manage to get both hands on your gun, poke his eyes out with your other hand.

Try it with simunitions, someone who is really trying to shoot him, and knows anything about weapon retention.

Bingo. Again, not dissing the guy or his skills, but the "demo" isn't realistic and teaches nothing. This is similar to the guys who cut a watermelon in two with a katana off of someone's chest. It shows no skill because a watermelon is easy to cut and it splits open before you've cut it all the way through. Most times their grip is even wrong. I get the same sense here. Notice how he's always positioning the other guy's hand before the next technique? That's cheating. He knows precisely where the gun and hand are before he makes a move. That don't happen much in the real world.

I've been doing Aikido for many years and we do some techniques that are similar, but what he does seems more along the lines of Jujitsu.

I'd say you want to use a tenkan type of entry rather than an irimi type. Move off the line using what in kendo is called hiraki ashi. That's what I've used that works best in a training setting. Sabaki is everything.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

There's a Krav Maga training center about 20 minutes from where I live. Myself and a friend from BCT who actually lives real close are thinking about signing up. Guns and weapons are always going to be the primary choice when getting into a real scuffle, but knowing some solid hand-to-hand stuff is essential to a well rounded self-protection plan. Guns fail or run out of ammo. Or you may find yourself in a situation where deadly force is not legal, but you still need to take action. Hand to hand is perfect for that.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

There's a Krav Maga training center about 20 minutes from where I live. Myself and a battle buddy from BCT who actually lives real close are thinking about signing up. Guns and weapons are always going to be the primary choice when getting into a real scuffle, but knowing some solid hand-to-hand stuff is essential to a well rounded self-protection plan. Guns fail or run out of ammo. Or you may find yourself in a situation where deadly force is not legal, but you still need to take action. Hand to hand is perfect for that. Not to mention that it helps your physical fitness, reaction time, and hand-eye coordination, which in turn helps you use your weapon better.

[akodo]

This is absolutely nothing new.

Action beats reaction.

If person A is holding a gun, a $20, or whatever, and he is just holding it, waiting for something to happen, it is pretty easy for person B to suprise him and grab it.


There was another 'gun vs karate' video linked here about 2 weeks ago. It starts out with the instructor guy standing there with a knife, and another guy holding a gun on him, which the instroctor easily blocks or knocks away from the compliant assistant, puts him in some control moves and simulated stabs him. Later on in the video, the instructor is holding the gun, and the compliant assistant this time has the knife and makes a big obvious lunge for the instructor. The instructor does a series of blocks and grapples using the gun and then uses the gun like a hammer to whap the guy in a few key areas. So which is it, is it easy to take a gun away and then stab him? or is it easy to do a whole bunch of steps and blocks and twist his arm etc etc to take the knifewielder out without firing a shot?


Of course, he could just move his finger 1cm rather than step-block-swingthehip-pivot-hooktheknee-strike

Of course, rather

[Guile22]

It would be most beneficial for everyone if there was more real world experiences being shared, so we can contrast and compare on what does and doesn't work.

I personally don't have any experience in gun defense and would like to learn.

For those offering hollow criticisms, with their "Theories of, I would have done xyz "
Please post a link to your videos or photos demonstrating the proper techniques, so we can all learn from your wisdom.

-G22