Saiga input


PDA






Desperado
August 9, 2007, 04:59 PM
Im wanting to get another rifle (all I have is a .22 right now) for shooting primarily, but also an option for HD. Ive looked at getting an SKS or a Saiga and have been leaning toward the Saiga due to price and good things Ive heard. I wanted to get some opinions from yall because I havent actually talked to anyone that shot one. Im also thinking of getting a .223 vs a 7.62. What do yall think of em?

If you enjoyed reading about "Saiga input" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
The-Fly
August 9, 2007, 05:02 PM
I dont own a Saiga myself, but have shot em. They are excellent guns.

fletcher
August 9, 2007, 05:03 PM
For rural HD, 7.62x39 would be good (heavier bullets may keep going), and I understand it shoots a little more consistently than the .223. For anything else, I would recommend .223. Both will be fun to shoot and worth purchasing - go with the caliber that you like.

mpmarty
August 9, 2007, 05:08 PM
to say there are now four Saiga rifles in my safe.

1. 308 with bipod and full conversion (G2 trigger, 20 round mags, NATO stock etc.)
2. 5.45x39 same conversion without bipod.
3. .223 in stock $225.00 new in box "hunting rifle" configuration
4. 7.62x39 in stock $225.00 new in box "hunting rifle" configuration

All are quite well made and accurate. My favorite is the 5.45x39 with the 308 (7.62X51 Nato) in second place followed by the 223 and last by the 7.62x39.

The reasons for the 223 being in third place is it has not yet been "coverted" to a true AK configuration. The 7.62x39 is in last place because it is the least accurate and least "effective" of the four calibers.:)

MD_Willington
August 9, 2007, 05:49 PM
Get a Saiga shotgun for home defense... ah, hell, just get one of each, you'll like them all.

wdlsguy
August 9, 2007, 06:00 PM
You can get a Saiga in 5.45x39?

MD_Willington
August 9, 2007, 06:05 PM
Not a standard Saiga... apparently there were a few examples imported though.

Desperado
August 9, 2007, 06:11 PM
I think yall have convinced me. Ill use the bonus in my paycheck to get one:D
Thanks guys

nalioth
August 9, 2007, 06:45 PM
Like everyone has said, buy one of each. :)

TOU
August 9, 2007, 07:11 PM
Like everyone has said, buy one of each.

Yep...including the shotties; that's what I did...just to be sure. ;) Get the shortest barreled version you can as they seem to be nearly the same in accuracy...sometimes reported as better.

You can get a Saiga in 5.45x39?

What? I didn't know this or I would have bough instead of my CAI (canted sighted) WASR.

Not a standard Saiga... apparently there were a few examples imported though.

Alright...where do I get one?

yhtomit
August 9, 2007, 07:39 PM
I was in the same situation (wanted a "real rifle," to go along with my .22 bolt-action Savage), and chose a Saiga. I've only had the chance to get to the range with it a few times so far, but it's great fun, feels utterly unbreakable (cross fingers), and has so far (limited test, note) fired every time. However, being unused to firing a rifle, I can't say I hit very close to where I was aiming -- next time, I need to bring a BIG target, so I can walk the fire in better and understand quite where most of my shots are going ;) I think the GUN is accurate, it's the operator that needs work ...

I'd happily buy another Saiga, and hope to in the medium future.

timothy

aka108
August 9, 2007, 07:43 PM
In 7.62x39 or 223 get the 16" bbl. Easier to handle and in my case the 20 inch barrel is the least accurate of the 3 I own.

MrTuffPaws
August 9, 2007, 07:54 PM
I have a 16" in 7.62x39. I love the rifle. The detachable mags beats the fixed ones on an SKS hands down.

Desperado
August 9, 2007, 08:07 PM
Ill be sure and check that out aka108. I was wanting the 16" over the 20" anyway. Im leaning toward the .223 cause I think the ammo will be cheaper.

wdlsguy
August 9, 2007, 08:21 PM
7.62x39 seems to be cheaper and more abundant than .223 at the moment.

cracked junior
August 9, 2007, 08:29 PM
how accurate are the saiga 223? are they good for 100 yard 1-2 inch groups

MIL-DOT
August 9, 2007, 09:00 PM
"7.62x39 seems to be cheaper and more abundant than .223 at the moment."
__________________
yes, it is.

TOU
August 9, 2007, 09:52 PM
how accurate are the saiga 223? are they good for 100 yard 1-2 inch groups

With quality ammo many report yes...with decent surplus... again many report yes. We shall see, as I personally haven't spent much time on a bench with one yet.

747mech
August 9, 2007, 10:09 PM
I've got two, x39 and 308, both 16", both converted. The x39 is a fun power-plinker with one deer to it's credit, now with an Ultimak gas tube and red-dot, the 308 would take it's place as the bambi-blaster. Not as much fun to shoot, but more power on target.

SaMx
August 9, 2007, 10:54 PM
You can get a Saiga in 5.45x39?
from what I read the original (http://world.guns.ru/civil/civ011-e.htm) siaga was made in that caliber as a civilian rifle to thin out the population of saiga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saiga_Antelope) (a type of antelope). I guess it was too effective, saiga are endangered now.

The Deer Hunter
August 9, 2007, 11:04 PM
For a couple more dollars you can buy the Saiga.

Deer Hunter
August 10, 2007, 12:46 AM
A 5.56mm saiga, converted, is hard to beat.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x91/Captain_Kennedy/DSC03737.jpg

Samuraigg
August 10, 2007, 01:05 AM
Ok thats it. I need to convert my Saiga, no more putting it off.. :fire:

rangerruck
August 10, 2007, 01:07 AM
Ihave had 3 saigas, now have two. they are great, they are better than sks's forever, they are way cooler looking, they don't use those buttugly mags like an sks, and they are far more accurate. Plus if you wanna use regular hi cap mags, or modify them later, there is a ton of cool saiga stuff out there.
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?http://forum.saiga-12.com/
308 ammo is so expensive right now, get one of the other two.

TOU
August 10, 2007, 02:35 AM
Okay...I was going to hold off and get ACE's, but those simple black butt stocks are growing on me more and more and I have more than a couple of Saiga's to convert. So...where is the cheapest places to get the as posted above?

busy_squirrel
August 10, 2007, 03:51 AM
get one with the dimples above the magwell;)

Deer Hunter
August 10, 2007, 11:34 AM
TOU,

I'd suggest KVAR or DSArms.

SSN Vet
August 10, 2007, 12:34 PM
commie guns in commie calibers :)

if you're going to convert it and feed it with high caps, x39 is what I'd recommend.

you can get 30 rounders in nice shape all day long for $12 ea. if you go with an x39

TOU
August 10, 2007, 12:35 PM
TOU,

I'd suggest KVAR or DSArms.

Thank you.

Deer Hunter
August 10, 2007, 01:13 PM
SSN Vet,

And you can get 35 rounder 5.56 for $20 each, every day. Don't get dragged into the assumption that "commie" guns only work in "commie" calibers.

TOU
August 10, 2007, 02:11 PM
TOU,

I'd suggest KVAR or DSArms.

Kvar just has the full sets with pistol grips for $58.99 (no screw though, that is separate $5.99) and I just want the butt as I want a different grip. That said, it is probably the cheapest route...hmmm. If I could get a bunch of plain butts themselves for reasonable I would just go that route for the majority and be done with them. Got me thinking on the ACE's again though. So...the Warsaw length is the longer one though, correct? (The one Kvar is out of. ;))

GTSteve03
August 10, 2007, 02:20 PM
So...the Warsaw length is the longer one though, correct? (The one Kvar is out of. )
Warsaw is shorter. Think Warsaw Pact, the evil godless Commies that were against us in the Cold War. Those malnourished peasants weren't as big as our meat-n-potatoes boys so they needed smaller stocks. ;)

TOU
August 10, 2007, 02:27 PM
Or...they wore thicker coats for the merciless snow? :eek:

MD_Willington
August 10, 2007, 02:53 PM
Quite a few places to get US parts.. so shop around.

Desperado
August 10, 2007, 03:57 PM
Where are yall finding 30 rounders for $20? I assume yall are talking about magazines, if not correct me.

mordechaianiliewicz
August 10, 2007, 04:02 PM
I've shot all of their rifles, and like the .308 alot even though it kicks a little hard. Go with that, or a .223 converted to take high caps.

Deer Hunter
August 10, 2007, 04:12 PM
35 round Galil mags, Orlites.

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/galil.html

Aimsurplus has them every once in a while.

Desperado
August 10, 2007, 05:14 PM
Those synthetic mags work just as well as the factory ones? All I ever used were factory mags.

SSN Vet
August 10, 2007, 05:30 PM
Don't get dragged into the assumption that "commie" guns only work in "commie" calibers.

never heard or fell for that assumption.....

yet, I think there's merit in recognizing that some of the classic "benchmark" tools (rifles) were made in a the caliber they were, because that's what the designer very carefully chose to do. And they then went on to critical acclaim that way.

Seems like a lot of "me to" designers jump on the band wagon....

Not that a design can't be improved upon.....

but given the mission for which the rifle gained widespread popularity, have any of the caliber changes really been a quantum leap improvement?

Case in point....if I want a 5.56 / .223 rifle, I'll go get the rifle that put 5.56 / .223 on the radar screen, a civilian spin off of the M-16.

and if I want a recipocating saw....I'll get a Sawzall....and if I want a right angle drill with a lot of torque, I'll get a Hole Hawg.

Just my little opinion.....which is worth at least what you paid to hear it.

and OBTW....last time I checked $12 was still a lot less than $20....especially when buying multiples

MIL-DOT
August 10, 2007, 07:42 PM
if you're just interested in the black buttstock, the cheapest i've seen is ( if memory serves) at ULTIMAK. just the stock is $45. everyone else wants to sell the whole set, which i don't like 'cause the first thing i'm going to do is toss that tiny standard pistol grip ( in a parts drawer,so don't ask:neener:) and yes, as long as we're talking bulgarian polymers,the synthetic mags are great.

Desperado
August 10, 2007, 07:50 PM
When yall say convert it to hi caps, do I have to actually convert the rifle to be able to use the big mags? or were yall just talking about the actual rounds to put through it? I dont know anything about converting any type of firearm so I guess Im pretty ignorant when it comes to that.

nalioth
August 10, 2007, 08:22 PM
Where are yall finding 30 rounders for $20? I assume yall are talking about magazines, if not correct me. Some milsurp mags require you to file your mag catch as well as add a feed ramp for function in a Saiga. The Galil orlites work fine with only a feed ramp.

When yall say convert it to hi caps, do I have to actually convert the rifle to be able to use the big mags? or were yall just talking about the actual rounds to put through it? I dont know anything about converting any type of firearm so I guess Im pretty ignorant when it comes to that. Adding a feed ramp and lightly polishing the mag catch of the Saiga allows you to use commie surplus AK mags of 20, 30 and 40+ round capacity. No mag catch modding necessary with Galil mags, just the feed ramp.

Deer Hunter
August 10, 2007, 09:16 PM
I believe Mr. Kalishnakov's choice of caliber and cartridge was based on what was already availible to the soviets at the time. The SKS was already chambered in the intermediate 7.62x39mm, and even if he had tried to design the AK in a different caliber it would have been shot down by Russia's army. JMB originally wanted a .38 caliber bullet to be fired from his 1911 design, but he had build what the Army wanted. And I believe that the 1911 can be had in various different chamberings, all of which work with the same reliability as the same copy chambered for .45 auto.

What I'm trying to say is that the AK firearm can be chambered in whatever your heart desires. Reliability comes from the mechanical build, not so much the round it fires.

GTSteve03
August 10, 2007, 10:50 PM
Reliability comes from the mechanical build, not so much the round it fires.
To an extent, but there are some factors that do play into reliability.

The .223 and .308 rounds are pretty much straight-walled designs. The 7.62 Soviet has a very heavy taper to the cartridge. This taper makes it that much easier for the round to feed into the chamber. There is a slightly greater chance of a misfeed with the straight-walled American rounds in the AK action, due to dirt or fouling.

But a .223 AK action will still be more reliable than an AR-15.

Deer Hunter
August 10, 2007, 11:10 PM
I'm not disputing the fact that a tapered cartridge would have slightly more reliable feeding, but when it comes down to how much of an advantage that really is when comparing tapered to straight-walled catridges in terms of reliabilty of action, you'll be splitting hairs. There really isn't a discernable difference of reliabilty between the two, especially when it comes to the casual shooting most often done by this board's members. Perhaps if you continually shot a pristine example of each rifle for an extended period of time without stopping or cleaning, the advantage may become obvious after a few thousand constant rounds, but I don't see the mean total of rounds fired before a malfunction being too far off from eachother.

Navy87Guy
August 12, 2007, 12:33 AM
Kvar just has the full sets with pistol grips for $58.99 (no screw though, that is separate $5.99) and I just want the butt as I want a different grip.

Remember -- you also need the pistol grip nut. The Saiga doesn't come with one. You might as well buy both from KVAR and save yourself $6 shipping on a $5 part!

You can always sell the pistol grip -- it will probably get you enough to cover the price of the grip and screw. I sold mine off my Lancaster AK in a couple of hours. Every little bit helps when you're bitten by the bug!

Jim

FMJMIKE
August 12, 2007, 11:49 PM
Here is a photo of my Saiga .223/5.56 converted to take Galil Orlite 35 round mags. I get about 2 MOA with a scope and cheap Wolf ammo....
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/mbmphoto/Saiga20galil2.jpg

If you enjoyed reading about "Saiga input" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!