[Gunsmoker]

So the "almighty" Remington 870 has an internal lock much like the S&W revolvers.

If you've been around the revolver guys, you know how much fuss a lot of them make out of this internal lock system.

So why aren't you guys making a fuss about the lock system on the 870? Just curious.

[RNB65]

I'm not crazy about the 870 lock, but at least it doesn't disfigure the appearance of the gun like the revolver lock does.

[wdlsguy]

It's easy to get rid of. ;)

[Jorg]

So why aren't you guys making a fuss about the lock system on the 870?
Probably because it has already been discontinued and was easy enough to swap out on guns made during the short time it was produced.

[waterhouse]

So why aren't you guys making a fuss about the lock system on the 870? Just curious.

Some of us did make a fuss. Unlike S&W, Remington listened and got rid of the lock.

I never owned an 870 with a lock, since most of my 870s are about as old as I am, but I still complained to them about the locks because my customers complained to me about the locks.

[Gunsmoker]

Ooooooh.


I lucked out big time.

How long did they make the 870 with the lock?

[The Deer Hunter]

Apparently they can lock when your firing the gun, and most people don't carry the J-key so thats a big problem.

[pdowg881]

I've had my safety unlocked since I got it, and haven't had it lock up on me. It's not even there as far as I'm concerned. A tiny j shaped line in a safety doesn't bother me enough to go and install a regular one.

[dmftoy1]

FWIW - I just swapped my safety from RH - LH and got rid of the key at the same time. $26 and if it took me 5 minutes I'd be really surprised . . .probably more like 2 minutes.

Have a good one,
Dave

[CWL]

Mine never came with a lock, never even was aware of it.

[pdowg881]

Can somebody explain the advantage of the safety without a lock besides what deer hunter suggested?

[Regolith]

pdowg - less to go wrong. Also, if its not there you can't accidentally leave it locked, leave home without the J key, get out to the hunting blind and find out you're gun is nothing but an expensive club until you get back home.

The J lock on the safety was just a replacement for an external trigger lock. Which are fairly useless anyway, unless you have children running around and nothing else to secure the gun.

My new 870 came with a regular cross bolt safety and an external trigger lock. The trigger lock now sits in the bottom of a drawer.

[pdowg881]

If i just leave it unlocked(as it's been since I got it) won't it be just the same as one without a lock?

[Hawk]

Fixed it for you:

So the 870 had an internal lock....

As for how long - good question. Couple years?
I couldn't find much on the issue.

[Gunsmoker]

As for how long - good question. Couple years?
I couldn't find much on the issue.


This is a very good question because if it was only a few months, there could be major problems down the road. They haven't had years (like S&W) to implement this internal lock into the 870s. And there won't be enough 870 guns with the internal lock out in circulation to know if there are major problems. All current S&W wheel guns have the lock, so any design failure and most would know.

[Hawk]

... or it might be a collector's item, if few enough were made.

I had one on a model 700. It seemed less likely to misbehave than the S&W and accounts of the S&W adopting poltergeists are out there but exceedingly rare.

Anything's possible but major problems down the road strike me has improbable based on what I've seen. Remington's lawyers are as nervous as any and they've been silent. They're still running the bolt-lock manual safety recall though (different issue).

[blutarsky]

what's all involved in removing the j-lock (and making sure the safety is still, well, "safe")?

i've thought about removing mine since i never lock it. i have two barrels for mine, and when at home i keep the 18" one on but still keep the gun in a bag unlocked but accessible, in case i need it for home protection (main go-to is a .357 gp100, but if i have time i'll spend the extra 30 seconds to get the 870). the presence of the j-lock is sort of a concern, since i've heard stories of people accidentally locking them and if in a home defense situation, that could be absolutely disasterous. i guess i haven't really been completely concerned that it will randomly lock itself, but i also really don't want to chance it. plus, like i said, i have never used the j-lock and really wouldn't miss it at all.

[Jorg]

blutarsky: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=238015

They haven't had years (like S&W) to implement this internal lock into the 870s.

It was around for a few years, I think they started it in between 2000 and 2002 and they it up at least through the first part of 2006. So, there are probably only a few hundred thousand guns with it on there.

[Geno]

I can't resist...Nah nah!! Boo boo!!! :neener:

Not all new Remington 870s have the internal lock...only some do. :evil: And no, I haven't modified anything. I don't do internal locks. I shop until I find a new one without it, or I buy the models that don't have a lock. :cool: Psych!!!

[ArmedBear]

I have an 870 Express with the lock. It has over 10,000 rounds through it.

Never had a single problem with the lock. I've locked it once or twice, for some reason I can't remember. Maybe I was leaving it in my Jeep for a little bit.

I might take the lock out, but it's a hunting gun and I do throw the key in my bag when I take it out, in case I might want to lock it for some reason. (Locked is more "idiot proof", if I might be in the company of idiots.) Either way, unless I convert it to HD use at some point, nobody's gonna die if it's locked.:)

[PJR]

If you search the term "J-lock" I think you'll find plenty negative comments about it.

I have disassembled an 870 to unlock the J-lock in a hunt camp because a fellow duck hunter forgot his little green key and had to loan my gun to a clay shooter because he did the same.

I won't have one on a gun that I own. They get swapped out immediately.

[revjen45]

I locked my Steyr S9 while leaving it in the car to go into the post office. 2 days later I discovered that I had forgotten to unlock it. That was the last time I ever used the lock.

[pdowg881]

Why don't you just unlock it and forget about it? Obviously if it is locked than there is the possibility of losing or not having the key, but unlocked it functions like the regular safety.

[ArmedBear]

Why don't you just unlock it and forget about it? Obviously if it is locked than there is the possibility of losing or not having the key, but unlocked it functions like the regular safety.

Exactly.

The few times I've ever locked it, I locked it in the field, when I had the key with me, again, just as an added bit of insurance against stupid gun handling by others. I didn't lock it at home.

[Jorg]

Why don't you just unlock it and forget about it? Obviously if it is locked than there is the possibility of losing or not having the key, but unlocked it functions like the regular safety.

I think the concern is that there have a been a few reports of it engaging without the key.

[ArmedBear]

I think the concern is that there have a been a few reports of it engaging without the key.

I've tried, and I can't get it to happen.

Doesn't mean it can't. I'm just not overly worried about it, for my purposes. My 1100, though, which is more my primary gun for hunting than the 870 Express, has the old safety.:)

[Dave McCracken]

I managed to lock one in a Bass Pro shop with finger and thumb. I'll skip the lock....

[pdowg881]

I'll have to experiment and see if I can get that to happen. Maybe people that frequently lock and unlock them may loosen it and make it easy to inadvertantly lock?

[Lee Lapin]

The first I ever knew that Remington was putting locking safeties on 870s was from hearing of a new one infected with such an "improvement" that had locked up (w/o the key) on the line in a shotgun class. I said "Hmm."

So I started looking around, and discovered Remington WAS NOT installing the newfangled extra-safe safeties on their Police lines of shotguns, which are intended for serious social purposes. I said "Hmmm."

So a few of my acquaintances and I commenced playing around with extra-safe safety 870s, and found out they could indeed be locked without the key. BUT they can't be UNlocked until you get a key. I said, "Forget this." Other folks did too, folks who thought they might need their 870 to repel boarders and did NOT want it to lock up under pressure.

And I commenced changing out the newfangled safeties on a whole buncha new lawyer-approved improved 870s. I had been working around the local 3-gun crowd for a while, and lotso those guys wanted big-head safeties in their 870s and 1100s. I always asked if they wanted the original part back, most just said "keep it." Packrat that I am, I set aside a compartment in the 870 small parts box for safety buttons and watched 'em pile up there.

Then lo and behold, Remington's lawyers smoked crack or something and decided to inflict this wunnerful new improved safe tee dee vice on America (well, except for POLICE in America, who were deprived of its benefits).

And people found out it would lock by itself, and folks who use their scattergun for defensive purposes as well as sport said "No way."

Fun thing was, Remington had stopped selling old style safety buttons as spare parts. Brownells ran out, and the other 'normal' parts suppliers did too. You wanted a replacement safety for a while there, you got a new locking one. Unless you knew a packrat like me, who saved apparently useless spare parts, slightly used, in quantity.

So there I was, swapping out safeties again like there was no tomorrow- this time, swapping locking buttons for old style ones (plus safety detents and springs too, so everything would be right).

That went on for a couple of years till Big Green saw the light. Now they are back to normal again. And you can buy old style safety buttons again.

But if there is ever a shortage of lawyer-proof extra-safe self-locking 870 safety buttons, don't call me. I didn't save a one of 'em. Got no use for 'em, won't have one in my house. Them or the lawyer they rode in on.

lpl/nc (still got a few extra old style buttons though)

[sm]

Agree with Lee.

Then again going back as far as I can remember, we just took safeties out of shotguns all together.

Big Boy rules and we just told the ROs and SOs we came to shoot for keeps so move over and shut up. They did.

This even before shotguns had synthetic stocks, screw in chokes and some folks were not even a itch in their daddy's britches that would later do the Great Equipment Race.

Big head safeties *snicker* maybe folks in Iceland need them, another great marketing hype from the boy in Bentonville.
I would rather get shot than use anything with Wilson's Name attached to it.
I won 4 Wilson 47Ds and tossed them a burn barrel the other day.

Vang Big Head safeties now have a place.
Good metallurgy, and turn that Big Head down to make a OEM safety and spot of Oxo-Blue from Brownells and good to go.

Save the Rem Originals, just turn down a Vang is what folks around here do.

FWIW, I don't take a shotgun anywhere, I just use what handy.
One "handy" is a 870 20 ga, plain barrel, fixed IC and the origininal Trigger group is like new, with the safety. Never been used that we know of.

We stuck a another Trigger group without a safety in it back whenever and this is the way has always been used.
Clays, ducks , geese, quail, ...Serious Use...

*shrug*

[toivo]

Add one item to the list for retrofitting an old-style safety: black nail polish to cover up the white dot ("locked") and red dot ("unlocked") on the trigger guard.

[Chris B]

What is involved in swapping out the locking safety? Could I do it myself or should I take it to a smith? These reports scare me since my 870 is my HD gun (.308 Rem 700 with a 4-12 Leupold wouldnt be to effective in 400 sq. ft. apartment) and it has the safety with the J lock.

[Chris B]

sorry

[Coronach]

As was said, people really didn't like the lock, and were very vocal about it. Remington dropped it, but it's not clear to me whether this was due to vocal pressure or 'merely' sluggish sales (the most effective form of pressure, really).

It was pretty simple to remove and replace with a standard safety. I have two 870s without the lock and one NIB with it (it was being sold by a friend for a song, so I snatched it up). The one equipped with the lock will have the lock removed when I get around to fitting out the gun the way I want it. It's going to be my ULTIMATETM Buckshot Blain Tribute Combat Pump Shotgun. ;) Vang Comp barrel, big head safety, Cold Comfort shell carrier on the stock, and some sort of light. Haven't decided on which light yet. But, rest assured, when I find it, it will be the ULTIMATETM.

Mike :D

[wdlsguy]

What is involved in swapping out the locking safety?
See post #18 in this thread.

Could I do it myself or should I take it to a smith?
If I can do it, anyone can do it. ;)

[Chris B]

Thanks. I'll be ordering the parts tomorrow. :)

[CleverNickname]

I didn't particularly mind the fact that my 870 and my Springfield 1911 came with locks. I replaced the 870's locking safety with a Wilson Combat Big Head safety and the Springfield's mainspring housing with a Smith & Alexander Mag Guide and gained some functionality in addition to replacing the locks.

The problem with S&W revolvers is that even if you disable the lock, you're still stuck with the unsightly hole in the side of the gun.

[jack the toad]

more bs to protect us from ourselves.
remington caught on and sh*tcanned theirs.
S&W may never learn and thats why I plan on never buying another "locked" Smith unless it's a heckuva deal.

[jcord]

I just recently purchased a Remington 700 in 243 that has that silly lock on the bolt. I will be removing that as soon as I have time.