The Internet is an amazing thing. It allows hunters and firearms enthusiasts across the world to communicate as easily as if they were next door to each other. I like to browse several sets of forums and I was browsing though a U.K. deer stalking site when I came across a message posted by a Dutch hunter. He did not join the forum but posted as a guest. He asked if there was anyone on the forum who would sell him some deer stalking in Scotland or England or perhaps trade for some wild boar hunting in Germany. Now I already enjoy wild boar hunting in Germany and I am fortunate enough to have some red and roe deer hunting land in Scotland, so I could understand why a Dutch guy, who lives in a country where hunting is very much restricted, would want to hunt the Scottish Red Deer. There was just something about the post, and I cannot say what, that made me post my E-mail address with an invitation to contact me.
He did and we exchanged some information about our respective interests. Marcel is a High School Principal with a passion for hunting. He has hunted roe deer, wild boar, chamois in Europe and caribou, in Iceland. He is fluent in German as well as in English and other than his small area for hunting in the East of Holland he mainly hunts in Germany, just to the South of Berlin.
Suffice it to say, we got on well enough by E-mail for me to subscribe to SKYPE, and through SKYPE’S free voice calls over the Internet, we started to have weekly conversations. Being cautious as one should be, my buddy Iain, who with two other buddies shares my deer lease, thought we should go and meet our new Dutch friend and his German friend, who would come to Scotland with him.
We drove over to Holland and met with Marcel. We got on just fine. He showed us his hunting ground and introduced us to his friend Benny, who manages a country estate. Benny is an African plains game hunter and seeing his trophy room was a real experience. As well as African game, he has hunted pronghorns and bison in the USA and collected himself some great trophies, including bear from Lithuania.
A further drive to Berlin and we met up with Andreas and Dieter, Marcel’s German hunting buddies and both as keen hunters as the rest of us. We did go out for a hunt one morning but alas, no wild boars were about. We did lend a hand with some high seat repairs though. But hunting was not the reason for the visit. Seeing if we all got along was the purpose. Well, we did and Iain and I left with an invitation to return to Germany on 30 April, to attend a little party, prior to the start of the roebuck season on 1 May.
Tradition says that the hunters of the district meet up on the afternoon of the 30 April at the hunting lodge, bringing food, beer, schnapps etc. and have a party. This party lasts till everyone is tired and goes off to their cars to sleep. Before first light we are off to the hunt. Iain and I did return for that party and it was nothing short of terrific. We enjoyed wonderful food, beer and hospitality. A real “Jager” welcome from each and every hunter there.
After the hunt, all the hunters whose party we were with, joined up with other parties from the surrounding district, where lunch was served and the assembled group was addressed by senior members of the “Hegesring” or district hunting association. Each successful hunter was presented with a sprig of evergreen, to be worn in his hat for the rest of that day.
Despite language barriers, hunters the world over seem to be able to communicate and get on with each other. For the most part anyway. I felt privileged to have been a part of that hunt and thank Saint Hubertus for this and all the other wonderful hunts I have been blessed to take part in.
Marcel, Andreas and Dieter are currently in Iceland hunting caribou. Andreas and Marcel will join Iain and me to hunt red deer and roe deer in October this year.
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August 12, 2007, 10:16 AM
Thank you! What a pleasant surprise to find on a Sunday morning. I nominate you for the best post, and pics, of the year.
I have to admit it still throws me for a second when I see statements like "We drove over to Holland"
I need to go ahead and retire and travel more.
Thanks again for taking the time to post.
August 12, 2007, 11:19 AM
Very cool! Sometimes the Internet IS worth all the hassle and pop ups. Beautiful areas, thanks for the pics.
August 12, 2007, 11:23 AM
Keep this stories coming, I really enjoy them!! Have you hunted in the states yet?
August 12, 2007, 12:05 PM
Very enjoyable post and pictures. Thanks.
August 12, 2007, 12:09 PM
That is brilliant view into German hunting culture. THANK YOU!!
Tell us about your O/U rifle or was it a drilling you were shooting. Also what were some of the other rifles and calibers used?
I also love all of the different dogs in the pictures.
Neat,really really neat.:)
August 12, 2007, 12:49 PM
Truly fine! Thank you!
August 12, 2007, 02:23 PM
What a truly wonderful exerience. Thank you for sharing.
August 12, 2007, 03:10 PM
good food, good hunting and lifelong friends are universallly some of the best joys to experience in life. Thank you for the pics and story.
August 12, 2007, 03:21 PM
Thanks for sharing and congrats on the boar and roebucks.
Hunting in Europe is somewhat different than hunting in the US/Canada.
August 12, 2007, 03:33 PM
Thank you all for your response to my post.
First. John BT. I did need to take a ferry first but yes, we can do that in Europe. I am glad, truly glad, that you enjoyed the story. Not a story really but just what happened. Also, yes, do retire and do what you can afford and want to. You're a long time dead!! As for posting, that is my pleasure Sir.
Armoredman, do I detect military somewhere in your backround? If so, as one ex military fellow to another, I salute you.
If there was no Internet I would not have the pleasure of being able to reply to you.
Phantomak47. After my military service I worked in the oil and gas industry. It took me all over the world. I had the pleasure of working for a Texas based firm who had a deer lease and a bird lease on the King Ranch in South Texas. I hunted whitetail, dove, quail and even had a rattlesnake and a bobcat. (The rattlesnake was better fried than it was bar-b-qued.) and I did not eat the bobcat!! I love the Southern States and have more invitatoins to hunt than I have been able to accept. However, I deeply appreciate each and every one and if God permits, will try to visit them all.
Msarge. Thank you for your kind comments.
H&H Hunter. I read your posts with great interest. My pig gun is a Blaser Combination, or Bockbuschflinte in German. .308 Winchester is not too popular in Germany, so, I had to plead with Blaser to make it for me. It is Model BBF 97. 12g over and, .308 Winchester underneath. It has Blaser mounts and a Docter Optiks (The old Carl Zeiss from Jenna) 3-12 Variable Scope with a No. 4a Illuminated Reticle. Ideal for low light pig hunting.
My buddy Iain, used my Mannlicher Stutzen Classic in .308 Winchester, topped off with Mannlicher (Appel) mounts and a Zeis 2.5-10 x 50 Scope.
Other German hunters use 7 x 57 Mauser, 8mm Mauser, .30-06. 6.5mm x 55 Swedish is also popular. Many use 12g and 16g Brenneke Slug.
If you would like more detailed information on calibres and dogs, send me an E-mail and I will try to give you as much information as you need.
Art, I am pleased you enjoyed my tale.
August 12, 2007, 03:36 PM
Since posting the last item, I must also include Emerson, Alucard and LAR 15 for their kind appreciation.
August 12, 2007, 11:52 PM
That is a really cool rifle. I've never had the opportunity to shoot a drilling. I find them to be fascinating weapons. The Germans definitely build nice rifles and in odd configurations.
Do you know what the brindled colored hound dog is? I've never seen anything like it here.
My Mother is German. All of my relatives on her side still live in Germany. My uncle is a member of a shooting club there. I need to pester him into finding an invitation for me so I can hunt in Germany. I'd really like to give that a go some time.
August 12, 2007, 11:56 PM
I too use the .308 Winchester as my primary big game hunting cartridge.
Some great things transcend "The Pond".
August 13, 2007, 12:01 AM
Quick question for you European shooters do your gun laws influence your gun selection for hunting?
Here is the US I have several different calibers and guns for different shooting situations (I.E. long range vs short range, big calibers vs light calibers, ect)
August 13, 2007, 02:33 AM
Wow, that looks amazing. Great post, great pictures, and incredible firearm. Thanks for sharing.
August 13, 2007, 05:37 AM
Yes H&H. The Germans do build good rifles. I have almost entirely moved to German rifle makers (Sauer, Mannlicher and Blaser) and for sure (except for one Night Force for a specific job) German or Austrian optics. A lot of the German hunters I know use drillings. That is two side by side shotgun barrels over one (or sometimes more) rifle barrel (for those who may not be conversant with the term drilling). As well as the calibres mentioned before, 9.3mm x 74 and 9.3mm x 72R can be frequently found. Inserts for smaller calibres can be acquired easily in Germany. These are fitted into one of the shotgun barrels and you could go out with a combination like 12g Brenneke, 8mm Mauser and a .223, then change it round the next time out!!
I believe that the brindle hound is an English Pointer. Sacha is the top English Pointer breeder in Germany. I have sent an E-mail to check that my belief that it is an English Pointer is correct and will advise further when I get a reply.
Interesting that your mother is German. Are you fluent in German? I have a great respect for those who are truly bi-lingual, I just struggle along in German but it's fun. If it is not an impertinent question, may I ask the area your mother and her family is from?
I cannot urge you strongly enough to go and experience the German Hunter Hospitality. They have so much tradition and whilst the hunt is serious, the party afterwards has to be experienced to be believed!
LAR-15. The short answer to your question is yes. The laws do influence the choice of many UK shooters. With your indulgence, I will address this in another thread. My choice of the .308 was initially due to the fact that it was our standard NATO round. I used it in the military and empty cases were readily available. As a reloader, I find it quite versitile. Allthough I have other calibres, I still like the .308 Win.
Glad you like my pig gun JJMrK. My pleasure to share.
August 13, 2007, 06:47 AM
Another thank you for a wonderful story, both in words and in pics. Your pig gun is a work of art.
I wish I remembered more of the German I studied in the past. Ich habe viel vergessen!
August 13, 2007, 01:39 PM
I am not fluent in German. I do however understand it fairly well when spoken. Apparently as a young child I could have a conversation with the other toddlers in Germany. I haven't used it enough. Funny thing though when I am over there after several days words start popping into my head that I didn't know I knew.:D
My Grandmother lives in Frankfurt,my uncle and aunt live Wurstburg, I have one cousin in Lohr and one in Berlin. My mothers family are originally all from Bavaria.
The dog that I am in question about is the brown dog sitting below the hog hide in the 6th and 7th photos from the bottom.
August 13, 2007, 09:45 PM
I find the same in French H&H, a language I have more vocabulary in. Frankfurt I know as I used to exhibit at the ACHEMA Show (Petrochem). Wurzburg and Lohr I have never been to. I used to go to Augsburg, Ulm amd Munchen on business quite a bit but that is a little further South and beautiful countryside. They say that Bavarians are the Scots of Germany. They have their own dialect which the rest of Germany struggles to understand. I have three volumes of Bavarian to English Dictionaries. They have some quite amusing terms and phrases. I have never met a Bavarian yet who wasn't fun to be with.
I had identified the dog in question. I just wait for confirmation or otherwise as to its breed.
August 14, 2007, 01:17 AM
I am waiting with baited breath as to the identification of that dog. My girls and I have a wager. They are both dog experts.
The Scots of Germany. I hadn't really ever thought of it that way but it makes perfect sense they are kind of the highlanders of Germany.
My family in Germany are a hoot to be around. It is always lets see how much "real" beer this soft American can handle then the fun begins. ;)
That 18% German beer really takes it's toll on me!
August 14, 2007, 01:30 AM
Wow... Thanks for the post. Beautiful rifle to boot.
August 14, 2007, 06:19 AM
Glad you enjoyed it Pat.
Greg (H&H) I have just composed an E-mail in my best German (courtesy of my translation program) and asked my friend Sacha for the breed of the dog. My original question to Marcel, missed him. He is in Iceland hunting carribou. As soon as Sacha gets back to me I will post the breed. The dog was picked up on by a guy in Mississippi, on whose website I also posted the story. He said that " Seeing the Plott hound brings back memories. I used to coon hunt with plott hounds when I was younger. they can be mean dogs, but they are tough...". I had never heard of that breed so I looked it up. It has an interesting background and seems as if it was bred for the work it does in Germany, though a US breed. I am now as interested as you to know more, though I have no wager going on it!!:)
August 14, 2007, 09:12 AM
Sacha tells me that the dog in question is a Hannoverscher Sweisshund. Hannovarian Bloodhound or Scenthound.
The Hanoverian Scenthound (Hannoverscher Schweisshund) has developed almost unchanged from the so called « liam hound » (leash hound) of the early Middle Ages. The liam hound, from the breed section of the « Bracke », already played an extraordinary part at the time of the establishment of clan rights of the Germanic tribes (in about 500AD).
With the invention of firearms, the methods of hunting big game altered. Dogs were needed to search for wounded game. The liam hound offered the best conditions for this and so he became a « Liam-Scenthound ». Especially the Hanoverian hunting estate in the kingdom of Hannover developed this breed further and preserved the proven methods of handling these hounds.
Since 1894 the registered « Verein Hirschmann e.V. » has been taking care of the breed and it was in this club where the breed’s name “Hannoverscher Schweisshund” (Hanoverian Scenthound) has been established.
Since that time the breeding of these dogs has continued strictly with regard of their working ability, and the dogs are used exclusively in hunting grounds for big game as specialists in tracking cloven-hoof game.
GENERAL APPEARANCE : In general appearance the highly efficient Hanoverian Scenthound (Hannoverscher Schweisshund) is of medium size, well proportioned and powerful. Well set strongly muscled fore and hind limbs qualify him for tireless work. Too long legs, specially overbuilt forequarters, affect his work with nose to ground and are foreign to his type. The broad, deep chest provides ample room for the lungs and enables long, strenuous chases. The slightly wrinkled forehead and the clear dark eyes produce the serious expression typical of the breed. Also typical for the breed is the red primary colour of the coat which can vary from a pale fawn colour to a dark brindle, almost black appearing, colouring.
Who won the wager!!:)
August 14, 2007, 10:35 AM
I am afraid that my dog experts were wrong on that one.;)
Thanks for the reply. That is an interesting dog.
August 14, 2007, 10:47 AM
Have you guys ever had Apfelwien when you went to Germany? I brew my own beer and cider and made some about 6 months ago and its really good. Also what is Germany's attitude towards firearms in general? Roe, are there still a lot of doubles makers in England?
August 14, 2007, 12:39 PM
Nice story and pics. The European like the social side of there hunting.
Its true about the internet and meeting people and it gives you an insite to how other people in the world hunt.
I was looking at your photo's and recognised your face David. We have met in England at our mutual friend Chris's wifes funeral in Bolney. must be over Ten years ago.
I hunted with Chris in Scotland last October.
Good to see your still hunting.
Hunters ought do what you did with your Dutch friend and swap hunting trips.
I think its much more about see how other people do it than big trophy hunting
August 14, 2007, 05:18 PM
More than ten years Alan and a sad occasion it was too. Chris told me that you were a Swedish resident these days. He didn't tell me that you were over at Altass though. Chris came down to Aberdeenshire to hunt with me and our German friend Bernd last year. Sussex memories return in waves Alan.
Phantom AK47. I have never tried Apfelwein in Germany. The beer is too good. I am a big cider fan at home though and had three pints of Kingstone Press this evening.
German gun laws are quite restrictive too. However, if you do the hunting school and get your Jagd Schein, you can buy as many rifles and shotguns as you want and two hand guns. There is a young man on this site called Isildur. He is a German national and could tell you more tham me. PM him. He will be pleased to talk to you I am sure.
They still make doubles in England. H&H, Purdey, Rigby. Great if you have forty to sixty thousand dolars spare!
I'll quit for now as the pleasant contact with Skoghund has me thinking a bit.
August 14, 2007, 08:36 PM
August 14, 2007, 09:18 PM
August 14, 2007, 10:13 PM
Wonderful pics. Beautiful thread.
I'm jealous (in a nice way).
August 15, 2007, 08:01 AM
I believe that you have some very fine wild boar hunting in France barman.
August 15, 2007, 02:52 PM
Sussex was very good hunting. I had 35years of first rate hunting there. I was so lucky to be able to take chris and many others out hunting and give them the start. Did get very tired of all the people and cars,ect. It got so that that hunting was being disturbed by people out walking. exerciseing dogs and so on. Even at 5 in the morning. The other thing is that as i got older killing so many deer was just not fun any more. it became bloody hard work.
So here i am in sweden.I live out in the forest with my dogs, No noise, cars or people. apart from the odd berry picker.
I had to pass the Jägar Exam here so that i could bring my guns from England.
nine months of evening classes and a two part written exam and a 5 part shooting test. It was great fun and i learnt a bit. After having taken the test you can have up to 6 hunting weapons and as many targat weapons that you can justify.
Chris says he hopes to come over in the Autumn or winter so we can hunt roe with the dog. Jon " The fat one" is comeing for the moose hunting. My neighbours and i are having a bit of a walked up day with the spaniel on black cock here on my place in a couple of weeks. Plenty about this year but i don't think the bag will be great.
The roe buck season starts tomorrow. So i will be out and try and get those deer that have been snacking on my new trees.
Have been improving my dog kennels this year. Next year i will put out some pheasants. Also want to build another kennel with a large grass run as i feel the need for a dog or two for hunting pigs.
So life Go's On:)
August 15, 2007, 06:32 PM
Best of luck Alan. I must call Chris and tell him how we have caught up.
August 18, 2007, 11:52 PM
After being stationed there three times I never wondered how much their Jagd Schein would cost. I know that some of their rifles are extremely expensive compared to our standards here in the United States. Deutschlanders would never believe that I just bought a slightly Remington 700 BDL stainless steel 7 mm mag with a Leupold for $500.00.
August 20, 2007, 05:50 AM
Just a quick intro, I left the UK in 2002 to Germany, Bavaria due to the 1997 pistol ban in the UK. And I have not looked back since.
I did the German Jagdschein in 1998-1999 (the normal not the armed forces easy version) and it was quite hard but not impossible but then you are pretty free to pursue your hunting dream here.
I find the people not very anti as they love to eat game meat.
I hunt mainly Roe and wild boar with regular forrays over to the USA for whitetail and wild turkey seasons.
August 20, 2007, 02:15 PM
Are handguns/pistols legal for hunting in Germany?
If one wanted to come to hunt in Germany what is legal to bring for taking ,say, roebuck or wild boar?
August 20, 2007, 02:32 PM
Very Cool Post
August 20, 2007, 08:31 PM
Talk about bringing back the memories. The last time I was stationed in Germany (1980 - 1983) I took the classes and training and testing for my German Hunting License. The camaraderie of all the hunters was second to none.
I quickly learned never to go anywhere without my knife. They would get us young jaegers into a gaust house and the call for a knife check. If you are caught without a knife it is your treat for the group.
The traditions were probably the best part. Saying a prayer for the game both before and after a hunt. Going on a boar hunt as a driver is exciting to say the least. But the most fun I ever had was hunting kinechen (cottontails) with ferrets. We all sort of surrounded a huge brush pile and the handler then turned his ferrets into the pile. In just a few minutes we had bunnies running all over the place. The tricky part was letting the rabbits get away and then shooting them.
One of the posters asked about Apfelwein. It is Apfelkorn and can be purschaed in the US. As a retiree from the Army I can buy liquor at the Class 6 store and they stock at least different brands. I tryto get some once or twice a year. Keep it in the freezer and serve ice cold. Wow, is that ever good.
August 20, 2007, 09:26 PM
One of the posters asked about Apfelwein. It is Apfelkorn and can be purschaed in the US. As a retiree from the Army I can buy liquor at the Class 6 store and they stock at least different brands. I tryto get some once or twice a year. Keep it in the freezer and serve ice cold. Wow, is that ever good
I make Apfelwein and its pretty good after about 6 months of aging, very cheap to make (.35 per 12 ozs) and you can make it stronger if you like by adding more sugar during fermentation.
Did you have any apfelwein while you were in Germany?
August 21, 2007, 12:29 PM
Hi Bavarian Brit. Glad to hear you regret nothing. My German is nowhere near good enough to take the German Jagdschein, so I just get the visitor permit. Bavaria is a beautiful area of Germany. I used to travel to Ulm, Augsburg, Horgau and Munchen on business. Loved the food, beer and Bavarians. The Scots of Germany. I have three volumes of a Bavarian-English Dictionary. Quite amusing in parts.
LAR15. Not sure minimum calibre in Germany for roe. I use a .243 or .308. 7mm minimum required for boar. Not sure whether pistols can be used for hunting or just to dispatch wounded game. No moderators allowed as far as I am aware. Perhaps Bavarian Brit can help here?
I recognise the scenario Battlespace. If we pulled out our knives in a U.K. pub we would be arrested, not allowed to carry knives except little non locking penknives. Whilst I am not conversant with Apffelwein, I do know Apfelkorn. That has been responsible for many a bad head!!
US S.F.C. Ret. Yes, things in Germany are even more expensive than in U.K. (Except food, wine, booze, tobacco, gas, automobiles and housing in some areas.) Hunting kit prices are way up there.
August 21, 2007, 08:47 PM
Anybody know if bow hunting is legal in Europe?
August 22, 2007, 03:18 AM
Certainly not in U.K. LAR-15. Illegal to take or kill any wild animal or bird with a hand launched missile. I believe that this is the case in most of Europe.
August 22, 2007, 04:03 AM
A fascinating post, I think hunters are hunters pretty much everywhere.
August 23, 2007, 11:36 AM
Interesting bow hunting is illegal.
August 23, 2007, 11:41 AM
Disgusting describes the situation a little better for me LAR-15. I would love to have a go at bow hunting.
August 23, 2007, 12:03 PM
I don't think you can bow hunt anywhere in Europe. I think hand guns are pretty much taboo as well. You can use a hand gun for finishing of wounded game in Germany and we can use .22 single shot pistols for killing badgers in there sets when hunting them with a dog.
Whats the cost of takeing the German jagdshein? There has been criticism here in Sweden that the cost of the jägare examen puts many young people off from takeing up hunting. Read in a hunting mag that in can cost up to
40000 Skr (5000 dollar US) to get started.
August 26, 2007, 03:41 PM
Huh maybe folks there think bow hunting is inhumane.
There are a lot of bow hunting only zones in Canada and the US.
We even have bow only seasons in North America.
August 29, 2007, 06:03 AM
Looking in some of my Wild und Hund magazines, Jagdschule (three week residential), including the exam, is 1500 to 2500 Euros, depending on where you go. I'm sure there will be some less than 1500 and some more than 2500for the course. Still expensive though. However, totting up what it cost me to obtain Deer Management Qualification Level 2 Skoghund, I am looking at around 1000 to 1200 pounds. ($2000 to $2400 at current forex).
August 30, 2007, 01:18 AM
LAR-15Anybody know if bow hunting is legal in Europe? According to a map I found on a Norwegian travel site, it looks like bow hunting is legal in Denmark, Finland, France, Italy, Spain and Portugal, as well as most of or all the former Soviet republics. Germany and Sweden are considering making it legal.
SkoghundRead in a hunting mag that in can cost up to 40000 Skr (5000 dollar US) to get started. In Sweden? I seriously doubt that. Or rather, I'm pretty sure that info is similar to the "hunting specials" the newspapers here in Norway have every fall. The expense includes everything a new hunter "needs" to get started, from the exam (which you need to do only once) to licence fees to buying clothes and guns and whatnot. Of course it can cost $5000 to get started if you buy $2000 worth of fashionable clothes and a $3000 gun. If you choose to hunt in your old comfortable hiking gear with a $500 remchester (yea, they sell those here to), it's a lot cheaper.
Not sure about Sweden, but here in Norway hunting education is a weekend thing or a few afternoons, with a written exam at the end. I'm just guessing at the cost, but I don't think a couple of hundred dollars US would be far off. I'm old enough not to need it myself... :)
August 30, 2007, 01:58 AM
A truly excellent thread. I had a similar experience, but pertaining to muscle cars. A Swiss electrical engineer had a hankering to own a '72 Road Runner. We sourced him a local(NJ) project car, engine builder, and body shop. Once all of the work was completed he flew over. We helped him round everything up and load the 40ft shipping container to get his prize home. We held an impromptu car show for him, dragging out all of our cars in the middle of winter. Luckily it was a warm winter with no snow on the ground. He had a grand time. He told us muscle cars are rarer than Ferraris in Europe.
August 30, 2007, 12:30 PM
True that do's include the cost of a rifle and joining a hunting team. But the books for the jägare examen are 1500 Sek and about the same amount for the course. I did 9 months evening classes although you can do a an intensive course over a week. But you need many weeks of book study before taking the course. I think the week courses cost between 8-10000 Sek .
Plus the fee for every part of the exam. Two written, shotgun safety, rifle safety. clay shooting, rifle shooting and the running moose range and not forgetting range estimation. Also add up the cost of travel to the course, cost of ammo for practice down the range. So for a young person who is still studying or just started work it still adds up to a fair bit of money.
Its also not so easy to get into a hunting team. Thats due to the fact that the hunting teams are full of old farts.
We need more young people to take up hunting.
August 30, 2007, 06:18 PM
"We need more young people to take up hunting."
Well said Skoghund and I doubt many here disagree. Youth is the future of the sport we love and we ignore that youth at peril to that sport.
I for one, encourage all youngsters who express an interest and whom I am fortunate enough to meet.
March 5, 2008, 03:59 AM
Hi all been away from PCs for a while,
The minimums are a .22 centrefire with a minimum of 1000 joules energy at 100 metres for roe deer.
6.5mm centrefire with a minimum of 2000 joules energy at 100 metres for other cloven hoofed animals generally wild boar.
Handgun only allowed for finishing off shot coup d gras (badly spelt).
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