Anyone have any stats on firearm vs car deaths.


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chetrogers
August 12, 2007, 06:22 PM
Somebody on a different form is trying to tell me that more people die from firearms then die from automobile accidents. I feel there is no way that they are right, but am curious if anyone has any statistics that would prove me or them correct. Thanks for any info.

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marley
August 12, 2007, 06:25 PM
If you belive madd about 50,000 die on the high ways. Not sure the total firearms deaths but about 12,000 are murdered every year not all with firearms. Suicide and nd's included. I don't read about them very often so i would say not too many. Would love to know some actual figures. Patrick

General Geoff
August 12, 2007, 06:26 PM
Not a chance in hell. I don't have statistics on hand, but I'd venture that probably five times as many people die from car accidents in the United States as firearms, including all justified uses of firearms (law enforcement use, etc).



edit; Visit http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/leadcaus10.html

Leading cause of death in 2004 in America was Unintentional Injury (for age group of 15-24), of which the main cause was motor vehicle accidents, which amounted to over 10,000. Second highest cause of death was homicide for that particular age group, of which firearms related injuries ranked ~4,000.

All other age groups, the discrepency was mugh higher.

Lashlarue
August 12, 2007, 07:00 PM
Auto fatalities have leveled off to around 43,000, firearms fatalities about 16,000 with more than half being self inflicted.Auto fatalities per 100,000 people are gradually declining.Leading cause of death other than disease is in your home, with a ladder being involved a majority of the time.Accidental deaths of children by firearms also declining drastically, standing at 802 in 2005. Actually more children die from being run over by a relative[usually a parent]. in their own driveway than an accidental firearm discharge. Were I an anti-, I would be demanding laws being passed to ban parking in your own driveway." Think of the children":)

Librarian
August 12, 2007, 07:22 PM
Just the 24 years easily available:
1981 - 2004, United States
Overall Motor Vehicle Deaths and Rates per 100,000
All Races, Both Sexes,

Number of Crude Age-Adjusted
Year Deaths Population*** Rate Rate**

1981 51,436 229,465,316 22.42 21.24
1982 45,852 231,664,211 19.79 18.82
1983 44,519 233,792,237 19.04 18.20
1984 46,328 235,825,040 19.65 18.75
1985 45,958 237,924,038 19.32 18.50
1986 47,918 240,133,048 19.95 19.06
1987 48,375 242,289,046 19.97 19.19
1988 49,138 244,499,040 20.10 19.48
1989 47,646 246,819,195 19.30 18.86
1990 46,895 249,464,396 18.80 18.40
1991 43,631 252,980,942 17.25 16.98
1992 41,094 256,514,231 16.02 15.87
1993 42,015 259,918,595 16.16 16.07
1994 42,646 263,125,826 16.21 16.17
1995 43,484 266,278,403 16.33 16.29
1996 43,747 269,394,291 16.24 16.21
1997 43,591 272,646,932 15.99 16.01
1998 43,647 275,854,116 15.82 15.81
1999 42,624 279,040,181 15.28 15.24
2000 43,604 281,421,906 15.49 15.46
2001 43,987 285,107,923 15.43 15.35
2002 45,579 287,984,799 15.83 15.74
2003 44,929 290,850,005 15.45 15.33
2004 45,113 293,656,842 15.36 15.21


1981 - 2004, United States
Firearm Deaths and Rates per 100,000
All Races, Both Sexes,

Number of Crude Age-Adjusted
Year Deaths Population*** Rate Rate**

1981 34,050 229,465,316 14.84 14.65
1982 32,957 231,664,211 14.23 14.04
1983 31,099 233,792,237 13.30 13.13
1984 31,331 235,825,040 13.29 13.08
1985 31,566 237,924,038 13.27 13.03
1986 33,373 240,133,048 13.90 13.54
1987 32,895 242,289,046 13.58 13.23
1988 33,989 244,499,040 13.90 13.51
1989 34,776 246,819,195 14.09 13.75
1990 37,155 249,464,396 14.89 14.53
1991 38,317 252,980,942 15.15 14.83
1992 37,776 256,514,231 14.73 14.46
1993 39,595 259,918,595 15.23 15.00
1994 38,505 263,125,826 14.63 14.43
1995 35,957 266,278,403 13.50 13.39
1996 34,040 269,394,291 12.64 12.58
1997 32,436 272,646,932 11.90 11.84
1998 30,708 275,854,116 11.13 11.08
1999 28,874 279,040,181 10.35 10.30
2000 28,663 281,421,906 10.19 10.12
2001 29,573 285,107,923 10.37 10.31
2002 30,242 287,984,799 10.50 10.45
2003 30,136 290,850,005 10.36 10.23
2004 29,569 293,656,842 10.07 9.94

See WISQARS (http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html).

The trend from 1989 to 1993 led some people to believe that deaths by firearm would soon exceed deaths by motor vehicle traffic. Some less-informed people have not seen data after 1994 - while we are now in 2007....

middlechainringguy
August 12, 2007, 10:19 PM
Wow.

Librarian: thanks, I think, for that stat. So almost 30,000 Americans per year are killed with guns. I would have guessed an order of magnitude less. What are we doing/should we do to get that toll down? Granted that some large number of those deaths are victims, which is part of the reason that many of us advocate for RKBA. But RKBA is fragile if we don't move that metric down ...

My contribution: take my daughter to the range and teach her to respect firearms, and hope that she enjoys them enough to pass on her respect to others. Other thoughts?

--middlechainringguy

Regolith
August 12, 2007, 10:34 PM
middle...MORE than half of those numbers are suicides. Last i checked, only around 12,000 were due to homicides, accidental deaths, and justifiable homicide.

So, that means around 16000 to 18000 firearm deaths are SUICIDES. Now, given suicide data from around the world, it can be argued (quite effectively) that the suicide rate has nothing to do with the availability of firearms, but rather is more closely related to culture. For instance, Japan's suicide rate is more than three times that of the US despite the unavailability of firearms. And its not the only example.

Fburgtx
August 12, 2007, 10:50 PM
Interesting article that came up on Drudge the other day....

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=070809202217.9us2orhu&show_article=1


Seems to indicate that many gun deaths are likely due to the pervasive "gang culture" of the inner city.

Mannix
August 12, 2007, 10:52 PM
Breakdown of 2004 firearm related fatalities:

Unintentional: 649
Suicide: 16,750
Homicide: 11,624
Legal Intervention: 311
Undetermined: 235
Total: 29,569

Although if you look at JUST the unintentional deaths, you are 70 times more likely to be killed in an accident involving a car than on involving a firearm.

Another thing I think most of us can agree on is that most if not all murders/suicides could easily be accomplished by other means.

Fburgtx
August 12, 2007, 11:21 PM
So the odds of being MURDERED with a firearm in 2004 was about 1 in 25,806 (based on a population of about 300 million). Amazes me that some people are willing to rip up the Constitution and throw it out the window based on odds like that.

carpediem
August 12, 2007, 11:33 PM
So the odds of being MURDERED with a firearm in 2004 was about 1 in 25,806 (based on a population of about 300 million). Amazes me that some people are willing to rip up the Constitution and throw it out the window based on odds like that.

Look at the odds of being murdered in a terrorist attack vs the erosion of civil liberties :scrutiny:

IA_farmboy
August 12, 2007, 11:43 PM
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr54/nvsr54_19.pdf

The CDC tracks such statistics. I did a bit of a search to find such data to show an anti-gun friend of mine. Good thing I saved the link. Also check out GunFacts.

http://www.gunfacts.info

Tinker
August 12, 2007, 11:56 PM
Chetrogers,

Not to hijack your subject, but you might also want to research "firearms deaths" vs. "medical mistakes deaths". I don't know the exact stats, but I did see them once. The jist was that you are way, way more likely to die from a medical mistake than a car wreck or a firearm.

230RN
August 12, 2007, 11:57 PM
Regolith said,

So, that means around 16000 to 18000 firearm deaths are SUICIDES. Now, given suicide data from around the world, it can be argued (quite effectively) that the suicide rate has nothing to do with the availability of firearms, but rather is more closely related to culture. For instance, Japan's suicide rate is more than three times that of the US despite the unavailability of firearms. And its not the only example.

I think it was Dave Kopel who pointed out that most of Japan's "suicides" are actually murders. Seems that when a guy is upset and decides to commit suicide, it is part of the honor code that he kills the rest of his family.

When it is reported statistically, the murders of his family members are each classed as suicides as welll. Part of the Bushido code, I guess.

This has the effect of radically deflating the murder rate and radically inflating the suicide rate.

And talk about "other methods" of committing suicide, if I recall correctly from other sources, the major method of "suicide" in Japan is by pesticides.

Ick.

What a way to go.

Guitargod1985
August 13, 2007, 12:02 AM
Hmmm I found that 42,065~ were killed by auto accidents in 1997 and only 10,369* were murdered using firearms.

~Highways only.
*Does not include NDs and suicides.

Shifty
August 13, 2007, 12:41 AM
also, keep in mind that among those murdered with firearms, that does not take into account gang shootings vs other gangsters, or non LEO shootings in self defense.

i forget some study done in NYC i believe showed that most of its murders were done by felons that were not able to legally own firearms, and a good number of those killed were criminals themselves.

someone around here knows what i'm talking about, because i'm pretty sure i got the info from here.

Librarian
August 13, 2007, 02:17 AM
Librarian: thanks, I think, for that stat. So almost 30,000 Americans per year are killed with guns. I would have guessed an order of magnitude less.
Staying in the context of the original question, note that substantially all of the deaths due to motor vehicles are accidental. For devices everyone would agree are not "designed to kill", that's awfully dangerous.

On the other hand, darn few of those deaths by firearm are accidental (you can get it from Wisqars yourself, but IIRC it's well under 1,000 per year [ I just looked - under 1K since 1997 ].) How does one control deliberate acts, positive decisions to end a life via murder or suicide? I don't think it's by worrying about means.

There is one aspect that might be controllable: alcohol (http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics-2003.html). That's involved in about 17K traffic deaths per year the last 12 years. But we've tried Prohibition ...

Allow me to note some generalities, mostly because I can't quickly find good data. A number of 'things I have read' indicate that alcohol is involved in a portion of 'arguments'; the FBI's data for 2005 says Concerning the circumstances surrounding murders, arguments (including romantic triangles) comprised 27.1 percent of reported murder circumstances. Circumstances were unknown for 37.8 percent of reported homicides. andOf the homicides for which the type of weapon was specified, firearms were used in 72.6 percent of the offenses. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 7.) Of the identified firearms used, handguns comprised 87.3 percent.With 14,860 murders in 2005, alcohol might be involved in some unknown percentage of about 3,000 of the murders (72% of 27%, rounded). So, one could speculate that perhaps a couple thousand murders per year might be avoided if people were more circumspect in their drinking, along with probably more than ten thousand annual traffic deaths.

Concerning suicides, some proportion of people who commit suicide have been drinking.Acute alcohol use is associated with suicide. Suicide completers have high rates of positive blood alcohol. Intoxicated people are more likely to attempt suicide using more lethal methods. Alcohol may be important in suicides among individuals with no previous psychiatric history.

Alcohol dependence is an important risk factor for suicidal behaviour. Mood disorder is a more powerful risk factor for suicide among problem drinkers as age increases. All individuals with alcohol use disorders should be assessed for suicide, especially at the end of a binge or in the very early phase of withdrawal. Middle-age and older men with alcohol dependence and mood disorders are at particularly high risk.link (http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/99/1/57)
The Suicide Reference Library (http://www.suicidereferencelibrary.com/test4~id~1247.php) is very cautious:General Population

The exact nature of alcohol's role in suicide is unclear. Many explanations have been proposed (Murphy et al. 1992, Shaffer 1993, Garvey and Tollefson 1982, Zeichner et al. 1994, and Yang 1992). Nonetheless, a strong association exists between alcohol use and suicide.

* Between 18% and 66% of suicide victims have alcohol in their blood at the time of death (Roizen 1988; Welte et al. 1988, Collier et al. 1986, Berkelman et al. 1985).
* People who drink are twice as likely, and people whose drinking results in trouble at work are six times as likely, as others to commit suicide in the home (Rivara et al. 1997).
* One study suggests that alcohol may be a factor in "impulsive" or "spontaneous" as opposed to "planned" suicides. Alcohol was found to be involved more frequently in suicides in which the victim left no suicide note, had not made a prior suicide attempt, and had no long-standing physical or mental condition to which the suicide could be related. So, theoretically, some portion of firearm suicides are probably associated with alcohol use, and some portion of them might be avoidable with better alcohol management.

But alcohol looks to be a problem 5-8 times as big for people who are on the roads than people who are around guns.

[ And yes, I drink beer, wine and whisky/whiskey, in what I think is reasonable moderation. ]

Phelptwan
August 13, 2007, 10:30 AM
Isn't there a website with a death statistics ticker somewhere...it shows deaths from suicides, guns, autos, alcohol, cigarettes, etc, etc. I can't remember where I saw it before but it was pretty cool.

GunTech
August 13, 2007, 10:37 AM
Just remember that most of the 'murders' via guns are criminals killing other criminals.

Librarian
August 13, 2007, 02:23 PM
Isn't there a website with a death statistics ticker somewhere Deaths-Leading Causes (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm) Number of deaths for leading causes of death

Heart disease: 654,092
Cancer: 550,270
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 150,147
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 123,884
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 108,694
Diabetes: 72,815
Alzheimer's disease: 65,829
Influenza/Pneumonia: 61,472
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 42,762
Septicemia: 33,464

Source: Deaths: Preliminary Data for 2004, tables 7or this:
What are the odds of dying? (http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds.htm)All External Causes of Mortality, V01-Y89, *U01, *U03 166,857

Deaths Due to Unintentional (Accidental) Injuries, V01-X59, Y85-Y86 109,277

Transport Accidents, V01-V99, Y85 48,071

or this (http://library.thinkquest.org/16665/causes.htm) for an international comparison.

What, you expected one nice tidy answer? Where's the fun in that?

25 Pdr
August 14, 2007, 02:48 PM
Here in the UK it would appear that Police Cars kill almost as many people as guns.

Between 1998 and 2003 an average of 72 people were killed with firearms

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3868411.stm

And figures from the 12 months 2004/2005 showed that 106 people were killed by Police 44 of which were by Police cars

http://www.guardian.co.uk/celldeaths/article/0,,1646336,00.html

So it would be fair to say looking at these simple statistics that people should be just as scared of Police cars as as they are of guns.

But that is a statistic that will never appear in the press

buck00
August 14, 2007, 05:06 PM
* Tobacco kills FAR more people than firearms each year in the U.S. They bring this stat up in "Thank You for Smoking." Pretty interesting film.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thank_You_for_Smoking


http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/tables/health/attrdths.htm

Tobacco 435,000
Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity 365,000
Alcohol 85,000
Microbial Agents 75,000
Toxic Agents 55,000
Motor Vehicle Crashes 26,347
Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs 32,000
Suicide 30,622
Incidents Involving Firearms 29,000
Homicide 20,308
Sexual Behaviors 20,000
All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect 17,000
Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin 7,600

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