Critique this SHTF grab bag.


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Slimjim
August 13, 2007, 06:44 AM
Now i like my sig as much as the next guy, but if the SHTF, and i had to grab one bag of gear with a pistol in it, i believe id have to grab this.

A bag containing:

1 Glock 17 pistol.
1 Cleaning kit
1 spare parts kit
5 Glock 18 33 rd mags
5 17 rd high capacity mags.

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bannockburn
August 13, 2007, 07:13 AM
I'd ditch the 33 rounders. Unless you envision some sort of massive firefight, which would be best served with an AR or some sort of crew served weapon, those high cap mags are waste of time, money, and ammo. I'd say pack more ammo, (you need 250 rounds with your current set up), get an AR for your primary weapon, and avoid any kind of firefight till you reach your destination. Other than that, I think the Glock is an excellent choice and will serve you well.

Slimjim
August 13, 2007, 07:18 AM
*nods*the 33 rd mags were just for easier ammo storage, could be broken down for ammo for the 17's, but in a pinch could be used as another magazine in the gun.

groundedclk
August 13, 2007, 07:28 AM
I have been designing a grab bag for awhile now, and still just havent put it together. Now a glock is a great choice due to the reliability and finish, unlike my favorite Sigs.(on finish only is it superior).

First question is how well do you shoot the G17? What kind of sights does it have?
What do you mean by parts kit? Whats in it?
Wheres the flashlight? Extra batteries?
First aid kit?

I could go on, but can you give a better description on what you want to prepare for. Also the first poster was on the money, a long gun should be your first weapon in that bag. Unless your looking for a concealable setup.

bamabluesman
August 13, 2007, 08:00 AM
I'm curious as to just what situation you think you need this grab bag for? You must have just finished watching red dawn or something. Were not gonna get invaded it was only a movie.

armed85
August 13, 2007, 08:48 AM
Sometimes an individual would like to harm you, thus the possible need to flee. It depends on the circumstances, but it's just an inexpensive way to be prepared for the unlikely worst case scenario, or as the OP put it, when the fecal matter hits the rotating isolator.

Think of a natural disaster or terrorist act that would make your home inhabitable. Depending on where you live, flood waters can rise very quickly and terrorist acts are unpredictable and could target water supplies, food supplies, etc.

sm
August 13, 2007, 09:19 AM
While I had CCW and all, having a grab bag to answer a Alarm with contact numbers, smokes, lighters/matches, coffee, Tylenol, latex gloves, basic shaving kit, sinus meds and most times a bone stock Colt 1911 and a couple of spare 7 round mags worked fine.


Arrive and see all hell broke loose, going to be a long night with Police, Insurance Investigators, Alarm and Locksmith/Safe folks. Glass company getting a new front plate window, door...

Fun times.

Can of Spam, Instant Tang, soup, or some kind snacks not a bad idea.

Like I said, fun times and it can be a long night before one of the cops or whoever can bring in some food, or another employee / friend comes to babysit with you.


Kel-Tec P-11 and his/her toliet kit and items above are in some bags I know of.
One used when a family emergency hit and they flew in in a hurry and did not even want to deal with TSA.
Straight from airport to hospital and a bag presented for them to use while in town.

I always seem to snag the latex gloves and Tylenol right off the bat out of one...
Oil of Wintergreen is not a bad idea.
The smell of fire tends to get to nostrils...dab the oil on a cloth.
I added a surgical mask to one bag I kept handy...

Not fun arriving to see something on fire, and having to mess with the aftermath...
Was not expecting the Alarm call to be that of a fire...

30 cal slob
August 13, 2007, 09:24 AM
mine is similar, though I have thrown in a flashlight and one set of spare batteries.

in a month or so i'll be adding concealable body armor to that grab bag.

joab
August 13, 2007, 09:27 AM
I'm curious as to just what situation you think you need this grab bag for? You must have just finished watching red dawn or something.

A couple of years ago we had an9ther new member make those same types of comments about BOBs
A week later Katrina hit
Don't ridicule what you don't understand, a smart man would sit back and learn


I have three grab bags, all with 1911s with five mags 2 have .38 snubs with one extra speed loader

Onmilo
August 13, 2007, 11:03 AM
I have to say, I have absolutely nothing against Glock pistols, own four myself and am looking for a Model 20 10mm right now.

What the heck do you need with the 33 round magazines and why don't you have any ammo?

Three loaded 17 round magazines, two empty 17 shooters as spares and five boxes of ball ammo would do you fine.

If you get in a situation where you think you need 33 round magazines in the gun and you stick around to find out for sure, take my word for this.
You ain't gonna make it out.

AirForceShooter
August 13, 2007, 11:15 AM
You need a .22 rifle.

AFS

CWL
August 13, 2007, 03:40 PM
Have any of you guys ever had to 'hump' a pack for more than 10 miles? Everyone needs to weigh their bags to see how much they will weigh. 250-300 rounds of pistol ammo? Try cell phone, extra battery, copies of all your important documents, medicines, extra socks, dry foods, water purification system -these would still weigh less than that ammo.

Getting into a prolonged firefight with a pistol is pure fantasy.
If you live anywhere where you have to deal with 2-legged predators, then a shotgun is preferable, then rifle.

joab
August 13, 2007, 03:42 PM
Try cell phone, extra battery, copies of all your important documents, medicines, extra socks, dry foods, water purification system -these would still weigh less than that ammo.That would be a BOB not a simple grab bag

Lonestar.45
August 13, 2007, 03:56 PM
I would ditch the 33rd mags. If it's ammo storage you want, just take along a couple of boxes, they take up less space than the 33rd mags. I'd rather spend the $ on buying more 17rd mags than 33rd mags because I'd never shoot the 33rd mags. I picked up 10 used G19 mags at the gunshow for $12 each and never looked back, they work great.

Good bag other than that though, it's basically what I have except w/a G19 and 15rd mags. I'd throw in a leatherman type tool though too if I were you.

kellyj00
August 13, 2007, 04:30 PM
"I'm curious as to just what situation you think you need this grab bag for? You must have just finished watching red dawn or something. Were not gonna get invaded it was only a movie."

exactly! they closed down my town...Valley Center, KS a few weeks ago due to a chemical fire. Police guarded every entrance (there's about 6 into town), some with shotguns after there was talk of rushing the gates. All the citizens were kept pooled together in their cars on the highways and county roads leading into town or in a grocery store parking lot right outside of town and were being told "it is not safe to enter the city, we will escort you to your homes for 5 minutes where you can get enough supplies for 2-3 days that the town will be shut down!" So, police started following people in their vehicles, one at a time and waiting for them to gather supplies for 3 days and return.

After about 2 hours of this, police called it off. the lines stopped moving. Elderly folks were sitting in the heat, waiting for the opportunity to get medicine. I was waiting to get my dog out of his kennel (no access to food or water) and to grab the cat. I called my wife, with a broken voice, "the line has stopped moving, the police aren't letting anyone in...and they aren't saying why." She just calmly told me to 'calm down' and start asking questions if I could get to the front....she was going to try to get into town from the other side. It was a mess....a total and complete mess. The town police came down the county roads and told people "there was another explosion we will not let anyone in until it is safe." there was no longer ANY smoke coming from town and it seemed as though things were normal again. Folks were yelling at police and starting to throw fits.

I kept thinking about my dog, dying slowly of dehydration over 3 days because there's a highway patrolmen at the edge of town with a 12 gauge and 5 buddies. I asked around, why people wanted back in...mostly pets, some medicine, one guy for supplies for his wife who was in labor at the hospital (she wanted HER robe and fresh clothes, by God!) I tried to rally up a group of citizens to tell the police that these were our homes and it is OUR choice if we want to risk an explosion or chemical fumes to retrieve our pets.

I found a few folks who wanted to join. Then I got a call from my wife, "I got the dog. The veterinarian knows the police watching the south border so he's driving folks in to gather their pets. He's not letting us get anything else, so go get supplies and dog food"

Now, if anyone tells me that they need a bug out bag that contains nothing but a gun and ammunition, then you are wrong. Dead wrong.... because if there's a problem that encompases more than just your small town, there's no way to get supplies...and when you're starving or dehydrated who really cares if you've got a Glock 17 with 300 rounds of ammo?

Stuff does happen, get together a bug out bag.... put some $$$, a canteen full of water with a teaspoon of bleach (no good to carry around an empty canteen), as many water bottles as you can carry (you can ditch them later if you have to, or use for barter) some waterproof matches, kerosene, an 'emergency blanket', some energy bars, a good lockback or sheathed knife. Put a 9mm pistol in your bag, with at most 50 rds of ammo.... and put an ar-15 next to it with at least 100 rounds of .223 FMJ or HP ammo loaded into 20 rd mags (because it's harder to shoot from prone with a 30 round mag) remember, an ar15 is reliable and lightweight and accurate out to distance and great for defense from the muzzle out to hundreds of yards. Any handgun isn't going to have the same advantage, and you're not going to be able to use it to hunt as well. Also recommended, a handerchief, an extra pair of socks (can be used for more than just feet), a few hundred feet of 50+ weight monofilament fishing line (not for fishing, for everything else).

I can think of very few instances where I'd need to "bug out" If you live in an earthquake prone area, that makes good sense....but you should probably go ahead and skip the rifle and go with a spare set of shorts and a box of tampons.

kellyj00
August 13, 2007, 04:39 PM
after reading some of these posts, I'm a little concerned that I'm building the wrong bug out bag.

What is the point of a cell phone? Everyone has one. When it comes down to me running from my home on foot, the phone is the last of my concerns. If things are still in good enough shape for a cell phone to be operable, then I'm doing the wrong thing by leaving my home for the great outdoors and hoofing it away from civilization.

usp9
August 13, 2007, 04:58 PM
I didn't think 33 round pistol mags were legal in the People's Democratic Republic of Maryland.

Sistema1927
August 13, 2007, 05:22 PM
I would ditch the 33 round magazines and substitute an equal weight of water and water purification. You won't shoot long if you don't hydrate.

AndyC
August 13, 2007, 05:32 PM
I have a GMHB (Get Me Home Bag) in the back of all 3 vehicles - wife, daughter and me - they contain the following:

4 day food-supply+ candies
Water purification tablets
Plastic sheeting to make a solar still
Lady's stockings (new) for water particle-filtration
Military canteen
Foldable water-carrier
Hobo tool + big tin mug
Para cord
8'x10' tarp
Double-sized emergency blanket
2 knives, multi-tool and sharpener
Wire-saw
Various firestarters - lighter, magnesium, magnifying glass, condoms, tinder, etc.
Toothbrush, toothpaste, soap and breath-strips (morale-booster and hygiene)
Fishing-kit in a tin
Esbit foldable pocket-stove + tablets
Gloves, hat, pullover, rain-poncho
Cyalume-sticks and small flashlight
Toilet roll
Decent medical-kit
Whistle
Orange duct-tape
Signal-mirror
Multi-vitamin tablets

Weighs about 8 lbs.

Soybomb
August 13, 2007, 06:02 PM
Sometimes an individual would like to harm you, thus the possible need to flee. It depends on the circumstances, but it's just an inexpensive way to be prepared for the unlikely worst case scenario, or as the OP put it, when the fecal matter hits the rotating isolator.

Think of a natural disaster or terrorist act that would make your home inhabitable. Depending on where you live, flood waters can rise very quickly and terrorist acts are unpredictable and could target water supplies, food supplies, etc.
Thats lovely but 250 rounds of ammo probably won't fix your hunger, thirst, chills, wounds, or help you sleep. Where are the snacks, the first aid kid, the water treatment supplies? That grab bag looks like he's prepared for a team of assassin ninjas but not at all prepared to meet his most basic needs that he would be a million times more likely to need during a natural disaster. Throw the glock in with an extra mag or two but be sure you're thinking realistically about what you'll be needing when an earthquake or tornado tears your town apart.

Tully M. Pick
August 13, 2007, 06:10 PM
Critique this SHTF grab bag.

Not enough toilet paper.

Schwebel
August 13, 2007, 06:17 PM
If you were looking for just a duffle bag sized SHTF bag (I also have one in every vehicle, and one next to my bed side). I have a decent first aid kit, money, various survival items like AndyC mentions(water tablets,compas...etc), flaslight/batteries, energy bars, cheapy binoculars, and a pre-paid cellphone (incase I forget my main one). I have a seperate "Jack Bauer" style shoulder bag that I keep weapons in, a Beretta 92fs with a M9 thigh holster, 4 15 round mags, a multi tool, survival knife, and pepper spray. My vehicle also has a case of MRE's and a case of water in the trunk, just in case.

Cosmoline
August 13, 2007, 06:44 PM
For bugging out--Water, radio, and a good water filtration pump (such as firstneed) are top of the list. The comes a basic first aid kit, shelter, stove and fuel and food. Then firearms, preferably one concealable and a .22 rifle or carbine.

You have to make rational choices based on the most likely local disaster. I've planned around a bicycle bug out, since the most likely issue here will be a huge earthquake that will once again turn the streets inside out and upside down. If I survive the quake, there's a high chance of getting kicked out of my building until they get around to deciding if it's safe or not.

Mikhail Konovalov
August 13, 2007, 06:49 PM
I believe that, beyond basic necessities, situation largely dictates action here.

That being said, the the Zombie Horde descends upon my hometown, I'm bugging out to the nearest Wal-Mart with my AK and as many friends as I can fit in the car. They've got food, water, toilet paper, ammo, and perhaps other people to help me barricade the place.

(Don't flame me, I'm funny!)

armed85
August 13, 2007, 08:48 PM
Hey Soybomb, why you talking to me? I never gave a recommendation. Jus' explainin' to bamabluesman why one would want a bug out bag.

To those who suggest an AR-15, I think they're better carbines. This is from an AR-15 owner by the way. The buffer tube of the AR makes it too large to carry in a bag even with an "M4 style" adjustable stock and a 16" barrel. I'd rather have a under folder stock.

I love my AR, but an AK under folder might be a better choice. Maybe even one of the Kel-tec SU16 carbines. An under folder carbine is not much larger than a full size pistol like the Glock 17.

The toilet paper, socks, medical, water, and food is good to have. I serve active duty, so I can buy some MREs at our commissary. Not the most tasty, but it's still a hot meal that can last in storage forever. My experience being out in the woods or sandbox eatin' MREs is that TP and socks and plenty of 'em is much appreciated.

Go to a surplus military store. The old uniforms and jackets are warm and very durable. If you've ever gone hiking in regular old shoes, you'll realize how nice a good pair of boots are.

Working Man
August 13, 2007, 09:06 PM
From what I skimmed through the one thing that should be in any king of bag
be it Grab, BOB, or other is missing... that would be extra cash.

You never know where you are going to end up and Master Card might not
cover your everything else. Keep it broken down 1s, 5s, 10s, 20s, 50s, even
a hundred or 2. That way you only show the money you need to spend. Nobody
needs to know how much you have. Just in case.

I've had it come in handy once or twice.

trickyasafox
August 14, 2007, 12:05 AM
i like baby wipes, alcohol pads, and some duct-tape wrapped around a business card with 10-12 feet of paracord wrapped around that. A big plus one to some comfort snacks. a snickers bar and a can of pop / soda can go a long way to improving your mood if your not happy. also a small hand warmer.

I don't know how i feel about the AR-15 in the Bug out situation. if its so bad i can carry a rifle in the streets, then i don't want to be in them. obviously the need could definitely come up. I won't dispute it, but i think creature comforts might come in a bit more handy for most situations.

AndyC
August 14, 2007, 12:12 AM
A good place to start is to remember the Rule of Threes:

You can survive:
3 minutes without air
3 hours without shelter
3 days without water
3 weeks without food

Now, these are rules-of-thumb more than anything, but remembering the sequence correctly will help you to prioritize your needs.

Edit: I think this thread is starting to get seriously OT... ;)

Mortech
August 14, 2007, 02:52 AM
Does anyone remember the Icestrom we had here several years ago in the Pacific NW , I was with out commercial power for 11 days . Some people thought I was nuts for keeping over 200 gals of gasoline out here at all times . That with my generator made life easy . The short moral of the story is that there really is no such thing as being too prepared , because the time you think you are , you'll find out your not . Also an folding stock AK definitely beats an AR for a SHTF carbine UNLESS you have a pistol caliber one that can used the before mentioned 33rnd Glock mags but your range will be limited . AndyC is correct about the rules he posted about what should be your priorities in preparing a BOB/SHTF bag .

islandphish
August 14, 2007, 04:09 AM
I think you neglected to add a holster, though it's probably understood.

I'd go for a nice paddle. Other than that I like the load out. No sense carrying boxes of ammo if you can carry it in mags.

Prince Yamato
August 14, 2007, 04:33 AM
1 Glock 17 pistol.
1 Cleaning kit
1 spare parts kit
5 Glock 18 33 rd mags
5 17 rd high capacity mags.

How about this instead:

1 Glock 17 pistol.
1 Halloween sized bag of M&Ms
1 spare parts kit
5 Glock 18 33 rd mags
5 17 rd high capacity mags.


...note, you don't need to clean Glocks.

Moxy
August 14, 2007, 04:53 AM
bamabluesman, are you kidding me?!? Red Dawn was a documentary! ;)

Fatelvis
August 14, 2007, 09:21 AM
You can survive:
3 minutes without air
3 hours without shelter
3 days without water
3 weeks without food

Andy, I dont understand the shelter part. Please explain...

TNfuzz215
August 14, 2007, 12:49 PM
I believe he is referring to protection from the elements.(i.e. hypothermia or heat stroke)

saltydog452
August 14, 2007, 01:05 PM
i'd agree with air force shooter and cosmoline regarding a 22rf, preferably in a takedown, locked breech version. ammunition would include quiet std velocity and cb caps.

salty.

AndyC
August 14, 2007, 01:30 PM
TNfuzz215 has it right - it's assuming extreme conditions.

Marlin 45 carbine
August 14, 2007, 01:39 PM
I keep a grab&go bag ready, but it's a 3 day type of set-up with spare socks, first aid, light roll-up jacket, dried food, ammo, space blanket, water bottle, knife, matches, small flashlight-spare batteries, para cord, and few other things. I have .22 carbine tack driver.

supraneurotoxin
August 14, 2007, 01:40 PM
don't discount the need for a good set of demolition tools-
I keep a complete tool set in the back of my SUV, as well as a crowbar, hand ax and folding shovel. these also double as melee weapons BTW.

no food though, I keep a pre-paid phone in there so I can just order up some SHTF pizza:neener:

J/K. a few MRE's, power bars, and water ride in a insulated bag to protect them from Hot Parked Car Synrome(HPCS). a comprehensive first aid kit, good strong knife, blanket, a few extra mags for my CCW, clean clothes, boots, and a few other things I can't quite recall.
I not only have a canteen, but enough half full pepsi bottles on the floorboards to keep myself hydrated for a really long time!!:neener:

kellyj00
August 14, 2007, 02:19 PM
I have two Tommy Lasorda bobbleheads and a pair of shoelaces in mine.

secamp32
August 14, 2007, 02:25 PM
A Keltec sub2000. It can use either the 17 or 33 round mags. And it folds up small enough to fit into a briefcase or backpack.

lesjones
August 14, 2007, 04:39 PM
To the original poster: If your idea of SHTF involves needing to shoot people, I guess that bag's a start.

You might want to think about taking care of basic needs like warmth, thirst, hunger, communication, basic sanitation and first aid.

That said, in either case you desperately need a source of light. All of your tools are worthless if you can't see. Likewise a pair of binoculars would be handy for either scenario.

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