MD - Homemade Guns Seized In Highlandtown Rowhouse


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Mark Tyson
July 3, 2003, 09:05 AM
From WBAL TV 11

http://www.thewbalchannel.com/news/2307067/detail.html

Homemade Guns Seized In Highlandtown Rowhouse
Police Question Man's Motives

POSTED: 7:27 a.m. EDT July 2, 2003
UPDATED: 7:50 p.m. EDT July 2, 2003

BALTIMORE -- A late Wednesday afternoon raid in a south Baltimore neighborhood turned up dozens of guns and enough equipment to manufacture more weapons.

Lovell Arthur Wheeler, 60, was arrested and charged on numerous firearms charges Wednesday. Baltimore City police detective Donny Moses said Wheeler was charged with reckless endangerment and numerous firearms and explosives violations. He said additional charges are pending after further analysis of items seized from the house.

WBAL-TV 11 News reporter Jeff Pegues said Tuesday night that police want to know why the man was making so many guns, but one neighbor said Wheeler has ties to Aryan Nation groups and had bragged about starting a race war.

WBAL-TV 11 News I-Team reporter David Collins reported Wednesday that police filled a dump truck with weapons in various stages of assembly. Police seized 14 rifles, eight handguns and more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition, Collins said. Authorities said it is not illegal to make weapons in Maryland.

But investigators are most concerned about 80 pounds of gunpowder they found improperly stored in the man's rowhouse. According to charging documents, the gunpowder was found in bleach bottles, paint thinner cans and antifreeze containers. The documents also stated that if that much gunpowder were to explode, it could possibly destroy the home, neighbors' houses and would cause many casualties.

"One of the officers made a statement saying if there was a war he knows whose house he was coming to for protection," neighbor Carroll Zielinski said.

Wheeler was arrested Tuesday at a plastics products plant where he now works, Collins reported. Detectives said they found six high-velocity rounds in his pocket, matching more than 1,000 others found at his home. Neighbors who live near the home said the man in custody was not shy about talking about his hatred for minorities. But another neighbor says the woman who lives in the home was more concerned about another terrorist attack.

"There was going to be a revolution ... and he was well prepared for it, against anybody that's not white," Zielinski said.

He "talked about complex economic ideas of how the government was messing up and that the economy will crumble and the system will collapse, but it never matched up with a lot of weapons in there," neighbor Erik Sanderson said.

Wheeler is being held on $2 million bond.

=============================================

How hard is it to build your own guns assuming that you have access to proper machine tools?

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Tamara
July 3, 2003, 09:16 AM
Sounds like a real piece of work. :scrutiny:

Of course, it shouldn't be illegal to be an obnoxious bigoted jerk. Seems the guy was mostly guilty of thinking that the First and Second Amendments allowed him to speak freely and keep and bear arms. Silly Nazi, not any more they don't!


(...though I did like the bit about the "high-velocity rounds" found in his pocket. How do you know, Mr. Reporter? Did you chrono 'em?)

Jmurman
July 3, 2003, 09:43 AM
seems to me the emphasis is on the "racist" viewpoint. The main charge for what I can tell is the "endangerment" for improper storage of powder.

I have trying to find the regs on powder storage in MD but with no luck...anybody know any links for this?

Ham Hock
July 3, 2003, 09:51 AM
I agree with Tamara that the guy is a real piece of work. But the news said that they seized his computers, took all his white supremacy literature (seizing books?), cut off their phone service and set his bail at 2 million!

Come on, nobody in Baltimore gets a 2 million dollar bond.

I am very far from any kind of white supremist, but it does not seem like he is being treated fairly. From the T.V. interview, they seemed a bit mentally unbalanced.

Tamara
July 3, 2003, 09:51 AM
The main charge for what I can tell is the "endangerment" for improper storage of powder.

Well, that and manufacturing guns without making proper obeisances to the BATF and obtaining their official blessing. That's a big time no-no, as in "Federal" and would explain the rather high bond.

blackhawk2000
July 3, 2003, 09:54 AM
First they go after the more extreme and vocal gun owners. After they get all them, they start coming for the more normal ones like us.

greyhound
July 3, 2003, 10:00 AM
Yep, looks like he was arrested for having views unpopular to the authorities. There could be more to it of course (threats, etc.) but if this racist idiot had kept his mouth shut he wouldn't be in the iron bar hotel. If it helps with the story, the Highlandtown area of Baltimore is mostly working class white folks.

ajacobs
July 3, 2003, 10:08 AM
Well, that and manufacturing guns without making proper obeisances to the BATF and obtaining their official blessing. That's a big time no-no, as in "Federal" and would explain the rather high bond.

If you are not making them for sale, you need no official blessing.

Byron Quick
July 3, 2003, 10:12 AM
From the T.V. interview, they seemed a bit mentally unbalanced.


Yes, these people are obviously guilty of anti-Soviet, anti-social behavior. We can make them well! Our psychiatrists are the best in the world! Prepare the rubber room.

Greg L
July 3, 2003, 10:49 AM
They needed a dump truck for 14 rifles, 8 handguns and 1000 rounds of ammo? I could almost carry that by myself (I couldn't move at all but I should be able to hold it :D ).

One thing that the "get rid of all guns" crowd never mentions is that the genie is out of the bottle. There are too many people out there who understand the basic workings of a firearm and could if they had no alternative build one fairly easily. This guy, while quite probably a racist jerk, sounds like one of those who could make a fairly well functioning firearm. Is banning knowledge next? (Of course the way that the schools are heading that might not be too far off the mark.)

Greg

Kharn
July 3, 2003, 10:53 AM
Tamara: You dont need federal approval to manufacture guns (when talking about non-NFA ones; you need the FFL if you intend to sell the guns you make), I wrote the ATF on the topic and they replied with this letter:
Page 1 (http://www.chesapeake.net/~mcfadden/bigtoys/law/1.jpg) Page 2 (http://www.chesapeake.net/~mcfadden/bigtoys/law/2.jpg) Page 3 (http://www.chesapeake.net/~mcfadden/bigtoys/law/3.jpg)

Mark Tyson:
Given a milling machine (and an operator that has a slight idea of how to use it), its a matter of probably 8-12 hours to make an AR15 lower given a $20 forged lower from DSA (as it comes out of the forge, with no holes drilled), an AK reciever can be done in about the same amount of time with the addition of a welding set (making the reciever from 1/8" thick pieces of steel rather than a bent 1mm thick piece of sheetmetal). Sig 228s, 1911s, Ruger 10/22-clones and 1919s have all been made. I've made ARs, an AK and a 1911, dont have the time or money for the Sig or 1919 and dont have the need for a 10/22 or I would make my own.

Kharn

musher
July 3, 2003, 11:25 AM
Looking at the variety of (powder manufacturer's) containers that I've got powder stored in looks to me like they could be described as being similar to bleach bottles, antifreeze bottles, and paint thinner cans. Also got some stored in "cardboard boxes"

willyjixx
July 3, 2003, 11:40 AM
2 mill bond for storing powder improperly huh?

he didnt break the law by making the weapons either? now you cant sell them otherwise that would be illegal with what i read here but what about a gift?

doesnt it seem like the trend nowadays for a raid is to sweep the whole place to find a bunch of little infractions in case you cant make the main one stick. remember capone was a tax evader. thats all this is there busting him on a technicality cuz they cant get him for the grand scheme of it all

Cal4D4
July 3, 2003, 12:13 PM
Wonder what he was making that was so scary? Maybe a Krupp style field piece to shell the minority neighborhoods?

"...if that much gunpowder were to explode, it could possibly destroy the home, neighbors' houses and would cause many casualties."

If it was smokeless powder, you gotta try pretty hard to get an explosion. Could this embellishment been added in the "charging documents" to flesh things out a bit and alarm the judge into the high bail?

"...one neighbor said Wheeler has ties to Aryan Nation groups and had bragged about starting a race war."

I question any comments made to a reporter by a neighbor. I would like to hear followup.

ajacobs
July 3, 2003, 12:16 PM
In baltimore, I believe, You need a special liscence just to have firearms or atleast certain types. That may be the grounds for additional charges.

only1asterisk
July 3, 2003, 12:16 PM
I'm glad they don't come to my house! I've got a few more than 1000 rounds! Hell, I've maybe got 1000 45 ACP empties! I shudder to think what they might say about me on the news! Cop #1: I've never seen this much ammo in one place! Cop #2 "Look here, he's got some them cop killer bullets too!" Cop #1 Some of this ******** must be illegal! What the hell is that some kind a still?

I'd be arrested for sure, and they would find something to charge me with (improper disposal of hazardous waste etc.) and I would have to get a lawyer to get my guns back. My luck they'd scratch them all up throwing them in the back of a truck.

That's how our rights work, guilty until proven otherwise.

David

pax
July 3, 2003, 12:20 PM
Is banning knowledge next?
Yes, it is.

There's a recent piece of legislation which allows the feds to examine your library records and to sieze purchase accounts from your local bookstore, with a secret warrant -- a warrant that does not have to be shown to the person whose records are being searched. It is an incredibly short step from there, to banning certain books and outlawing certain knowledge.

As it is now, in the course of a criminal investigation, they will examine as much of your reading material as they can, and use that in court against you ("we siezed white supremecist literature from the defendant's home, and the defendant had checked several subversive books out of the local library ... in addition, when we examined the defendant's computer, we found that he had several firearms websites bookmarked...")

pax

Alan Smithiee
July 3, 2003, 04:11 PM
Pax is dead on there.. my wife works in a library and some of the new laws are down right scarey. when we had the guy who planned 9/11 busted here (well, the govenour said he planned 9/11), his school records vanished within 10 minutes of his arrest. he almost became an unperson as far as the U was conerned. (they still haven't been able to find out what books he had signed out, they were removed by the FBI/INS/CIA/NSA/RCMP/NASA/IRS/SPCA/PETA/SS . thats books that will have to be replaced at tax payer exspense)

and there are NOT allowed to call you up and say "the FBI were here and were looking at your book records.. just thought you should know" hmmm, I wonder if there interested in the fact that I signed out "Unintended Concequences". I know she wouldn't be allowed to tell me if they had.

Henry Bowman
July 3, 2003, 05:20 PM
Good reason to get a library card under an assumed name. Very easy to do. :D

Also Nanaimo Bar(r), got a good recipe? I haven't had a good one since moving from the PNW 5 years ago. I always thought the best were on the BC Ferries.

veloce851
July 3, 2003, 06:45 PM
The article doesn't state anything about what probable cause or reason for a search warrant.
I find this disturbing.

CWL
July 3, 2003, 09:06 PM
It is clearly stated in the article that it is not illegal to manufacture your own firearms. -So what kind of "firearms charges" is meant here? Unless Some were auto conversions, or he has some sort of felony record precluding him from legal ownership fo firearms, I don't see anything illegal about this. Hopefully it's not because he actually possesses post-ban hi-cap magazines!

I wonder if the "gunpowder" talked about is reloading propellant or some more volatile explosive like black powder, then perhaps it might possibly be a explosives manufacture offense. Storing them in cans & such might be seen by zealous prosecutors and feds as 'bombs'.

Yeah, he was a racist & a jerk (and I'm glad he lives on the other coast from me), but that doesn't take away his rights.

Spot77
July 3, 2003, 09:40 PM
What's really sad is that the liberal agenda has been achieved. It doesn't matter that this guy is innocent or guilty, but that the new Chief of Police gets the headlines for making a "major gun bust". I suspect that this guy will get off on everything but a misdemeanor or two when it's all said and done, but nobody will ever hear that on primetime news.

I like Mayor O'Malley, and agree with most of what he's done with Baltimore, but this seems just silly.


I saw the video, and it looked as if most, if not all of the "illegal firearms" were parts of rifles....mostly bolt action.

AND, his wife is the confirmed member of several racist groups, not him.


I >HATE< politics. :mad:

Backwoods
July 3, 2003, 09:54 PM
Sounds kinda like an old fashioned witch hunt to me. They'd freak out if they got an eyeball on the stuff (All legal over the counter stuff) in my basement. I'm certain that many others on this board would qualify also.

Several people have already commented on the legality of making your own guns and are right on the money. I've seen it argued that selling a homebuilt gun isn't per se illegal, just that you can't make one "for sale". As an example, I have an AR15 type rifle that I built from an 80% receiver I built it for my own use and have no thoughts of selling. Ten years from now I may change my mind and let someone talk me out of it. It would be my property, not made "for sale", but not illegal to sell. Making and then immediately selling a gun would quite properly earn you the possible wrath of the BATFboys if/when they find out about it.

Don in Ohio

Byron Quick
July 3, 2003, 10:24 PM
Making and then immediately selling a gun would quite properly earn you the possible wrath of the BATFboys if/when they find out about it.

It would almost certainly earn the wrath of F Troop...but quite properly?


I do not consider actions performed under unconstitutional laws to be proper.

Backwoods
July 4, 2003, 02:02 AM
Byron,
I wish it were otherwise, but if you do something you KNOW is gonna cause the BATF*ckers to get thier panties in a twist, that's your fault. Gotta deal with the reality of the situation we have, not what we know it really should be.

It's like that "walking on hot coals" bit, some people don't get thier feet burned. The ones that do get burned, they knew(or should have) that it was a possibility before they took the first step. Being unconstitutionaly in jail still ain't gonna be fun.

Don in Ohio

Yeah, "properly" wasn't such a good term!

Travis McGee
July 4, 2003, 03:05 AM
Tamara: you can bet that those "high velocity rounds" in his pocket were deadly (shudder) "COP KILLER BULLETS!!!"

Dave McCracken
July 4, 2003, 08:39 AM
A tempest in a teapot.....

Caught part of this on local news,two channels, early yesterday. In both, the anchor intoned the buzz words, "Guns,Ammunition, Explosives", with the same look on their faces they had on 09/11/01.

The film footage was interesting. They show the cops carrying what sureasheck looked liked milsurp bolt actions sans stocks and roughed out stocks like many of us use for upgrading hunting rifles. NO AKs, Uzis, M-16s, Ar-15s, SKSs or anything else newer than WWII.

IOW, he was restocking some obsolete rifles and loading his own ammo.

His wife was interviewed. She's elderly, and was dressed in Colonial era garb, with mobcap. She mentioned she was a member of some White Supremacist group.

Undoubtedly, these folks are racist whackos. Also undoubtedly, the media are blowing all of this out of proportion,from sheer ignorance or malice, it matters not.

Lessee, if they kicked in my door, I guess the news would go something like this....

"In a raid today, police in Howard County seized an arsenal of handguns, rifles and shotguns as well as ammunition and a manufacturing setup for making more.More than 10 firearms, some possibly unregistered, were seized after a tip was received from an anonymous source. Several pounds of powder were also seized from the home of a man who is a former firearms and self defense instructor, hunter, Veteran and retired Correctional Officer.

5 computers were also seized, and an investigation continues into possible ties to militia groups and the Gun Culture.

When interviewed, neighbors said that the man was often seen loading guns and ammo into his car to go hunting or target shooting.

Chandra _____, who lives next door, says "He's a nice guy, he often gives us deer meat and fish he catches.

Police state that they've found no evidence of wrongdoing yet, but will continue the investigation until they do"....

Nightfall
July 4, 2003, 12:31 PM
Something stinks here. I despise bigots to my very core... but they still have just as much in the way of rights as I do...

Don't tell that to the gov't though. :fire:

Drizzt
July 5, 2003, 04:16 AM
Courtroom Confusion Over Homemade Guns Case
Wheeler Almost Freed Due To Technicality In Laws

POSTED: 5:41 p.m. EDT July 3, 2003
UPDATED: 7:07 p.m. EDT July 3, 2003

BALTIMORE -- There was confusion in court Thursday in the case of a Highlandtown man who was arrested Tuesday after police seized gunpowder and homemade firearms from his house.

WBAL-TV 11 News I-Team reporter David Collins said a public defender believes she came close to freeing Lovell Wheeler under a technicality -- two out of three charges were modified during this year's General Assembly session but don't take effect until late in October.

Wheeler was returned to jail Thursday on $2 million bail. Prosecutors pushed for a high bail amount out of concern that if Wheeler was released, he could stash ammunition and gunpowder in other places, Collins reported.

Prosecutors said police found 20,000 rounds of live military-grade ammunition and racist literature in Wheeler's house. The literature is protected under the First Amendment and included papers, books and information from at least two Web sites -- the National Alliance and "From The Wilderness" Web sites, Collins said.

The significance of the racial literature may be explained in a sealed police search warrant, Collins said. Police said they also found four boxes of ammunition in a locker and six rounds in Wheeler's pocket when they arrested him Tuesday at his place of occupation.

A preliminary hearing is scheduled for July 29, according to the Baltimore City State's Attorney's Office -- either a court proceeding could go forth or the charges could be dropped based on the police evidence, Collins reported.

Police seized 14 rifles, eight handguns and more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition, Collins said. Authorities said it is legal to make weapons in Maryland. Investigators said they are most concerned about 80 pounds of gunpowder they found improperly stored in the man's rowhouse which could be potentially harmful to others if exploded, prosecutors said.

http://www.thewbalchannel.com/news/2311772/detail.html

Cal4D4
July 5, 2003, 05:15 AM
Stashing ammo at work, squirreling away some sort of "gunpowder", a dozen or so rifles layin' around. Do we have a domestic terrorist or do we have a gassy old bigot with strong packrat tendencies?

Orthonym
July 5, 2003, 06:38 AM
Isn't that the same city whose police (not THAT long ago) burned some citizens to death by aerial bombing? (And, to boot, burned several neighbors' houses down as well?):fire: :cuss:

Dave McCracken
July 5, 2003, 07:23 AM
Actually, it was Philly, but the mindset is similar.

Spot77
July 5, 2003, 08:54 AM
So Wheeler has to sit in jail for a month just to get a preliminary hearing to decide if the police have enough evidence or not?

So much for the right to a speedy trial and "innocent until proven guilty".

14 rifles and eight handguns would have most of us in jail for $10 million bail.

db4
July 5, 2003, 09:24 AM
I think we are all missing the point here. Clearly this guy is guilty of THOUGHTCRIME!

Byron Quick
July 5, 2003, 10:03 AM
"'E's got to be guilty or 'e wouldn't be 'ere!"

PAshooter
July 5, 2003, 10:16 AM
On last night's news they reported that the State's Attorney is considering dropping all charges because... well, ummm... you see... it doesn't appear the guy's actually done anything illegal. Damn those loopholes!

If (and given the veracity of the local media that's a big if) the guy's really a racist wacko he gets no sympathy from me, but last time I checked that wasn't a crime (of course I haven't read all of the fine print in the Patriot Act). My understanding is you're supposed to actually commit a crime before being arrested, convicted, and incarcerated. Call me old fashioned.

Of course, the way the local news reported the story, the fact that the man had "thousands of military-style bullets" in his home makes him guilty of a felony. I appeal to my fellow THRers not to rat me out :D

They did, however, show one of those "man on the street" type interviews that rather surprised me. They asked a neighbor how he felt about the fact that they guy might be freed, and he said "Yeah, I was wondering about that. We do, after all, have the right to keep and bear arms."

Tamara
July 5, 2003, 10:30 AM
Dear me! He has... *GASP!* "military-grade" ammunition!

Spot77
July 5, 2003, 10:46 AM
Military grade?? So that means it was made by the lowest bidder?

I'll stick with my Federal Hydrashoks. MUCH more dangerous.

And reliable.

Orthonym
July 5, 2003, 03:07 PM
Yep, Philadelphia. Sorry, those places all look alike to me. Row houses are a bad idea for all sorts of reasons,IMHO.

Giant
July 5, 2003, 10:38 PM
We have here no, none, nada, verified statements of what this old guy is reported to have said. Could have been anything or nothing. "I like white bread and black beans" or was it; "Black bread and white beans."

Who do we know who might have a drill press, a Dremel Tool set, various power tools?

Fourteen rifles and six or eight wheel guns or pistols. Anyone here know someone like that.

Anyone here have a couple of old Mausers or Enfields laying about, no stock and waiting for parts or a new barrel?

Any reloaders here? I reload, at times have twenty five or thirty pounds of powder in plastic bottles and tin cans. Bottles and cans DOT approved. Also, at least five thousand and sometimes ten thousand primers. Minimum order where I shop is five thousand primers. Everything properly stored, as per DOT pamplet. Everything legal, I'm way under the limit set by the state and federal folk.

How about military approved ammo? Know of anyone with "Mil Spec" ammo? I have over twelve thousand rounds in different calibers on hand, some of it "Mil Spec" and dated 1939 or 1940, and since I'm running a little low I might buy another case or two. It is legel for me to buy ammo and I intend to buy it and shoot it! I always need more .22LR and I don't even bother to count that in my inventory.

My home looks like a library, one can find books, newspapers, magazines here on many subjects. How can anyone know their friends or their enemy without informing oneself of what their philosophy might be? I am not what I read or think!

We here on The High Road are among the most brilliant and accomplished in the nation. Look at the corporation of our employment, the professional or hobby organizations we belong to and the think tanks we advise, the institutes we are fellows of. Anyone here think we are not on a bunch of list?

We are the intelligentsia of the nation. Let us do what we can in a legal way to maintain freedom in america. If we lose focus of that we are lost!

Giant

Alan Smithiee
July 7, 2003, 02:48 PM
Amazing! after almost 4 years someone FINNALY got the joke!!

"Also Nanaimo Bar(r), got a good recipe? I haven't had a good one since moving from the PNW 5 years ago. I always thought the best were on the BC Ferries."

as a matter of fact I do.. right from, of all Places, Nanaimo British Columbia, my old home town.

BC Ferries and a Theater on on Dunbar St. in Vancouver have the best.

now back to the topic at hand...

so, what we actualy have is a guy held on some sort of secret warrent? no one seems to actualy know the charges this guy is faceing? or did I miss something?

PAshooter
August 13, 2003, 09:33 AM
Update on the Lovell Wheeler case.

Mr. Wheeler had his "day in court" yesterday and this was the outcome:

Keep in mind the most serious charge against him is Reckless Endangerment, a misdemeanor which carries a maximum penalty of 5 years in prison. The charge stems from the fact that Mr. Wheeler had "large quantities" of smokeless powder stored "improperly" in his row home. Mr. Wheeler is 61 years old, employed, and has no prior criminal record. All cash, guns, and powder were removed from the Wheeler home by police.

Prosecutors presented an expert witness - an explosives expert from the Army Corp of Engineers - who testified that there was enough smokeless powder in Wheeler's home to create an explosion that would not only demolish his house but also the homes of his immediate neighbors. In addition, the quantities of loaded ammunition present would keep detonating for hours, preventing firefighters and rescue workers from getting near the house to put out the fire and care for any victims. It was also presented that quantities of white supremacist literature were found in the home... not sure what that's evidence of, but they wanted to make sure the judge heard that.

The judge ruled that Mr. Wheeler's $2 million bail (which he never posted) be revoked and he be held without bail until his trial in November. Obviously he's a danger to the community.

Sorry I can't provide a link to an article - I heard the story on WBAL radio in Baltimore on my way to work this morning and have tried to relate what I heard as accurately as I could.

I leave it to the good readers of THR to draw their own conclusions.

In other news: murderers, drug dealers, gangbangers, and sundry other lowlifes continue to routinely make their meager bails and are returned to the streets of our fair city...

greyhound
August 13, 2003, 09:58 AM
There seems to be little interest in the media about this right now. One local talk show host (Ron Smith on WBAL) has been hammering this subject all week long, including interviews with the wife.

Most of the callers seem to be of the opinion that this is ridiculous and clearly based soley on his (despicable) un-PC views. I am sad to report, though, that I have not heard one African-American caller who does not agree with his imprisonment/huge bail (though given his views maybe this is understandable).

Jmurman
August 13, 2003, 10:07 AM
In other news: murderers, drug dealers, gangbangers, and sundry other lowlifes continue to routinely make their meager bails and are returned to the streets of our fair city...

How true!

gun-fucious
August 13, 2003, 10:16 AM
i kinda doubt that, as stored in various asundry plastic containers, the Gunpowder could detonate to the calculated potential power. If the GP was in 20 bleach bottles on a shelf and the row house caught on fire, there would be an impressive series of low power WOOOMPS!!, but its not as if the man had assembled a bunker buster.

Theres enough potential power in every parked cars gas tank to either drive 350 miles or drop a rowhouse.

i also wonder how many THRers have access to enough uranium to build a bomb capable of destroying a city just because there is an ore bearing outcrop on the back 40.

greyhound
August 13, 2003, 11:10 AM
There was also a good point on the radio show about how many people overall have all their chemicals stored in accordance with federal, state, and local registrations.

Things like gasoline, fertilizer, cleaning supplies, etc.

Seems like if they wanted to go around busting people for these types of violations, they could create a new federal bureau....:banghead:

Poodleshooter
August 13, 2003, 04:08 PM
Want to scare yourself? Go check out you local and state fire regulations. Search for ammunition, powder, gunpowder, primers,etc.
If you live in the suburbs or a city, what you find out may surprise you.
Live in Virginia and reload?
http://www.dhcd.state.va.us/Forms/DBFR/1SFPC.pdf
Scroll to page 20 in your PDF browser

Go to page 20. Hope you only have 1000 primers (1 box!!!!) and less than 15lbs of powder!

cpileri
August 13, 2003, 04:24 PM
greyhound,
here's a new agency for you:
The Bureau of Raw Or un-Formed Legal Materials that could Also be used for Other things.

or...
The Bureau of ROFLMAO !!! :)

OK, who wants to write a job description?
C-

Augustwest
August 13, 2003, 04:58 PM
Prosecutors pushed for a high bail amount out of concern that if Wheeler was released, he could stash ammunition and gunpowder in other places, Collins reported.

And a judge bought the argument.

More and more, I'm aware of just how compromised the judicial branches of the Fed and State gov'ts really are.

:mad:

edited to add:

The judge ruled that Mr. Wheeler's $2 million bail (which he never posted) be revoked and he be held without bail until his trial in November.

Better still...

Spot77
August 13, 2003, 06:52 PM
I think the "dangerous" part was supposed to be the 60,000 plus rounds of ammunition he allegedly had.

I've never had more than 300 rounds stored at a time, so I have no idea of the real magnitude of storing this much ammo.

Oh....and the prosecutors admitted that they're going after him so hard because his views are too radical and dangerous.

Thank God for the First Amendment, eh?

Interesting too, is that he's been appointed a Black Public Defender.

chaim
August 13, 2003, 07:38 PM
In baltimore, I believe, You need a special liscence just to have firearms or atleast certain types. That may be the grounds for additional charges Nope, in Baltimore there are no additional gun laws, you "only" have to deal with Maryland law.


The more I hear about this case (WBAL TV last night, Ron Smith show, internet) the more I think he is being punished for being a member of the National Alliance (the main Neo-Nazi party in the US). His main charge, having improperly stored powder, usually doesn't lead to as much jail time for a first offense as he's already served and the Judge just revoked his bail before trial?!:what: It seems to me that they are using what he may have done wrong (this is America, "innocent until proven guilty" and all) to punish him for his views. They are probably going to throw the book at him and go for the max penalty BECAUSE he is a Nazi.

I am a Jew. I am a member of one of the groups he, and others like him, would like to see gone (maybe outright liquidated). I also fully oppose this infringement on our liberties.

Remember, the Bill of Rights isn't needed to protect people with popular opinions, it is to protect those who hold unpopular/repulsive viewpoints.


Oh, yeah,

MD authorities:

While I don't have the 60K+ rounds the news yesterday reported that he had or 14 rifles I do have:

Hmm, decided it best to take down the "inventory", I don't need to make a thief's job any easier. But for MD authorities, I do own about a dozen guns, thousands of rounds of practice ammo, several hundred rounds of home defense ammo (hollowpoints), reloading gear (incl. 1 pound of powder and about 200 primers), blackpowder shooting gear (incl. 1 pound of Pyrodex black powder substitute).

I am a member of the hated NRA as well as this and a few other gun boards (smith and wesson forum, 1911 forum, CZ forum) and I am the founder of Taurus Talk online (see sig line).

I am also an Orthodox Jew which means I hold some views which aren't particularly popular, especially in liberal MD. We believe in family values, G-d, religion, prayer. Get this, I even attend a Chassidic (Hassidic) synagogue sometimes.

To make it worse to the far-left MD elite, I am a "traitor". I am a Conservative Democrat and pro-gun rights.

All of it is legal, but having been harrassed during the "DC Sniper" incident I know that doesn't matter.

Come and get me!!:neener:

Marylanders, we have to speak up or next it will be us! Remember, simply owning guns and being pro-gun rights makes you seen as an extremist by many here in MD and by most of the powers that be.

cpileri
August 13, 2003, 09:51 PM
Chaim,
You're a-ok.
C-

chaim
August 13, 2003, 10:01 PM
Gee wiz, thanks.:o

Byron Quick
August 13, 2003, 11:31 PM
Remember, simply owning guns and being pro-gun rights makes you seen as an extremist by many here in MD and by most of the powers that be.

Which is why I sadly put Maryland onto my list of US states I shall not visit unless some laws are changed. And attitudes.

Not only do I like Maryland but the Fumio Manaka sensei moved to the Baltimore area a year or so ago. I'll train with him at seminars in Atlanta, though.

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