26" 460 XVR in a rifle


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dom1104
August 13, 2007, 01:31 PM
Hello fello gun enthusiasts.

I live in Indiana and here we have case lenth limits on deer legal cartridges, basically the longest range cartrige we are allowed to use is a 460 XVR.

I was about to order one in a 26" custom shop TC Encore, but, I wondered is there such a thing as TOO long of a barrel?

Is there any where I can get data relating to barrel lenth and its affect on various loads?

I am thinking, that a slow burning powder, combined with the hi cap case of the xvr might prove the longest ranged deer gun in Indiana :)

But i am new to rifles, I am a shotgun man myself.

If you guys can enlighten me before I buy this sucker, I would appreciate it!

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Strongbad
August 13, 2007, 10:01 PM
26" is too long for a .460

With the faster powders that the 460 uses, you're not going to pick up anything with a barrel that long. I don't have hard data for the 460 in particular but based on personal experience with the 500 S&W and other cartridges, I'm going to guess that you're probably going to max out somewhere in the carbine range, i.e. 18-20 inches, anything after that is just extra weight, the velocity return will be negligible.

db_tanker
August 14, 2007, 07:00 AM
What strongbad said is true...but I will add that in some cases when the barrel is TOO long it will actually slow down the bullet giving poorer performance.

For almost any magnum rifle cartridge that you will be shooting I think that the suggested 18-20" length suggested would be a dandy.


D

General Geoff
August 14, 2007, 09:59 AM
If it weren't for that dastardly case length law, I'd suggest a .45-70, as light loadings for that are equivalent to strong loads in .460, and you can go up from there. And I've seen 30" barrels on .45-70 guns. :)

aspade
August 14, 2007, 01:18 PM
26" is too long for the cartridge in that it probably won't pick up any appreciable velocity over 20 or 22". But as a single shot the Encore is 5 or 6 inches shorter than a bolt gun with the same barrel length, so even 26" remains a handy package.

A longer barrel has that much less blast that much further from your ears, which is always a good thing.

I heard of someone putting together a .35 WSSM to game this law. So I don't think you'll have the longest ranged gun in the state.

Extremely long barrels on 45-70s are for sight radius with period irons, not ballistic performance.

R.W.Dale
August 14, 2007, 06:19 PM
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=289187&highlight=encore

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=286171&highlight=encore

Above are links to a couple range reports I made on my 460 S&W Katadhin carbine.

I doubt you'll gain anything by buying a 28" barrel VS my 20 inch tube. BUT that extra weight on the end of the barrel may be just the ticket to tame the cataclysmic muzzle flip I get when shooting full throttle loads.

Triple S
August 14, 2007, 10:21 PM
Because i do not know, how would a .460 S&W compare to a 45-70 of equal barrel lengths? Say 22-26" inches in length...When would you want a 460 over a 45-70 or are they very similar in performance from a rifle barrel?

R.W.Dale
August 14, 2007, 10:30 PM
When would you want a 460 over a 45-70 or are they very similar in performance from a rifle barrel?

When you want a single shot that can shoot several different rounds.
I can shoot 460, 454casull, 45Long colt and a couple other 19th century .45 caliber rounds. recoil is nonexistent when shootin 45lc cowboy loads

Or when you want to be able to shoot cheap bulk .451 diameter handgun bullets. I don't care what anyone says there are no good deals on .458 diameter 45-70 bullets.

You also burn a good deal less powder with high performance 460 loads than you do with comparable 45-70 loadings

Since you'll never find a 460 barrel longer than 20" you can only compare to a short barreled 45-70. In those cases with equall bullet weights the 460 holds a slight edge over all but the most insane 45-70 loads

With a 20" barrel 460 magnum will launch a 200grn hornady spitzer bullet faster than a 30-06 can launch a 200grn pill,:what: A longer than 20" barrel isn't required

Triple S
August 14, 2007, 10:38 PM
Nice response Krochus. Thanks for the insight. I was hoping the two were similar, but had no proof. I have considered getting an Encore barrel as well in .460, (for the multi caliber reasons you listed) but was curious as how it would compare to a .45-70. Mine would be for deer and hogs, say under 150 yards, + plinking.

R.W.Dale
August 14, 2007, 10:41 PM
but was curious as how it would compare to a .45-70. Mine would be for deer and hogs, say under 150 yards,

Any animal you shoot won't be able to tell the difference, I promise. You do however want to make certain to only use well constructed 45 caliber bullets. I shoot the 300grn hornady XTP mag.

Triple S
August 14, 2007, 10:47 PM
Are the ballistics of a 460 in a rifle barrel comparable to a +P 45-70 say out to 200-250 yards? I am not talking about the super 45's (450 grain sledgehammers and types), but sensible deer ammo.

R.W.Dale
August 14, 2007, 10:51 PM
Are the ballistics of a 460 in a rifle barrel comparable to a +P 45-70 say out to 200-250 yards? I am not talking about the super 45's (450 grain sledgehammers and types), but sensible deer ammo.

I can push a 300grn bullet to a speed of just over 2200 fps in a 20" barrel, That's a lot of horsepower! I don't think any "normal" 45-70 loads will come close to that.

I've chronographed 200grn hornady factory ammo going over 2800 FPS

Triple S
August 14, 2007, 10:55 PM
OK, Thanks. You learn something new everyday! I did not realize the .460 was as powerful as it is.

R.W.Dale
August 14, 2007, 10:57 PM
I did not realize the .460 was as powerful as it is.

It came as a surprise to me as well, That 460 is a real hot rod! If S&W had introduced it first there would be no need for the 500

General Geoff
August 15, 2007, 03:33 AM
Extremely long barrels on 45-70s are for sight radius with period irons, not ballistic performance.

I figured the long barrels were ballistically useful too, considering the .45-70 was originally a black powder cartridge..

db_tanker
August 15, 2007, 07:40 AM
Quote:
Extremely long barrels on 45-70s are for sight radius with period irons, not ballistic performance.

I figured the long barrels were ballistically useful too, considering the .45-70 was originally a black powder cartridge..


I was under the impression that BP burned rather fast, built up its pressure quickly. Nowadays the smokeless we use has a much slower burn rate and can better use the available barrel length...and handloaders can tailor a load for a particular barrel length/bullet weight combo.

I do it a bit more simplisticly...I just try to get a load that doesn't leave a ton of unburnt powder residue in the barrel. :)

Of course, I might be wrong...Lord knows it won't be the first time. :neener:

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