[brentfoto]

I've called Dillon on this and have not received an informative or satisfactory answer.

The question is:

What is the correct placement of the free-floating DIES in the FRAME (not toolhead) of the SBD? Which end up? And which end down? :what:

I ask because answers I have been given don't seem to work and they do not conform to the current state of die placement of the original factory setup. I have my own notion of how the dies are placed (which end up), my own rule of thumb, but it may be INCORRECT!

Prompt responses appreciated. Seems easy enough... :o

[adweisbe]

The instruction manual should have diagrams for this.

You have to determine it on a per die basis. It's hard to explain for each die but I will try. Each die has an entrance intended for the case to go into.

The sizing die is simple enough, you will see one end with a carbide (white) ring in it. That end goes down.

The belling die is also pretty simple. There is one that looks like a nipple of sorts and it partially fits into the mouth of a case for that caliber.

The seating die I can't describe without looking at my press. It is pretty clear there is a right and a wrong end. The opening should be nice and wide with a gradual flare for the case to go in as the die body doesn't really do much except center the case. It is the seating stem that does all the work. The top should have flat edges.

If I remember correctly the crimp die is similar. You see a nice gradual opening for the case to go into. The top of the die is flat so it interfaces evenly over a large surface area with the portion in the toolhead.

[brentfoto]

Thank you for your prompt post.

Instruction manual does not mention how the dies are inserted-which end is up. Not a clue in the instruction booklet.

Except for a brief sentence, there's nothing to inform a person that the dies are free-floating in the FRAME. Until recently, and before I looked into caliber changes, I thought the toolhead constituted the dies. Not so. Those are die inserts.

So, I think your description sounds good. If you could check your dies I would appreciate it.

If I understood you correctly, we might be able to come up with a bona fide rule-of-thumb, because the tops of all these dies would then have the engraved writing of the caliber and the die 'number' position.

The problem I was having was that two of the three dies were reading the caliber upside down when purportedly seated properly but with the engraved portion on top.

The other die, the sizing die, had the engraving of the caliber 'correct-side up'. I hope I'm not confusing anyone.

Additionally, for proper seating, could you say that the flanges are all properly positioned when on top?

I'm trying to reduce this to the simplest 'formula' possible, while your comments are most helpful to me in understanding how to distinguish 'up' from 'down'.

Note: There is no 'belling die' or 'expander die'. I believe this was due to patent rights, licenses, issues re Lee Precision. What we have is a 'powder die' (part of toolhead) that contains a 'powder funnel' (part of caliber conversion) that is caliber specific that actually bells the case.

[jmorris]

#1 will only go in one direction, #2 and #4 both have a radius “lead-in” on the end that faces down. You are correct that the reduced diameter portion (with the caliber/station information) always goes to the top.

[SDC]

Also, here's Dillon's "on-line help", which has a phone # to call; if you call during business hours, one of the techs there will walk you through it if you have any problems.
http://www.dillonhelp.com/sdbenglish/sdb_manual/sdb_manual_cover_page.htm

[adweisbe]

The dies themselves do float freely. They stop floating when they reach the toolhead and that is when they do their work. By adjusting each part in the toolhead you change where in the stroke the die reaches the toolhead. That is why the part that goes up is flat and doesn't have an beveled for the case. Another good clue I didn't think of is the writing, that will always be upright.

[Jim Watson]

The parts diagram in the SDB instructions shows the seating and crimping inserts with a groove near one end, and that end up.
The sizing insert obviously (I hope) goes in carbide ring down.

Were there not dies factory installed when you got the machine?

[brentfoto]

jmorris - so that is 'the rule of thumb', e.g. caliber information and toolhead # placement is always at the top of the die?

I became a little confused because that caliber info sometimes is read upside down though it is at top of the die... Most would assume when you read the caliber info you should not have to read it upside down!

I know that it is better to understand the shapes of the bases and tops of the dies and their relationship to the toolhead die inserts but I still like having a rule of thumb. :neener:

adweisbe - You did not think of the engraved caliber info etc. on top and I did not think of the flat end of the die as the top part of the die for insertion purposes.

What I have further noticed is that the flange part of the die (which acts almost as a little 'handle') is the top end of the die, so when you 'grab' the dies in a caliber conversion insert them flange 'handle' on top (or just make sure engraved caliber info is on top).

Jim Watson - Let's not confuse the DIE INSERTS which go on the toolhead with the dies themselves. Perhaps I misunderstood you.

Yes, the dies were pre-installed and the die inserts were preset at the factory. As far as I can tell, the Square Deal B Schematic does not depict the dies. As far as I can tell the DIE INSERTS are depicted, e.g. 12124,22200, 13908, etc.

When you receive the SDB, the dies are in the frame (something I was not initially aware of), but if you take them out and mess with them you may not have it right. One clue for me was that after I had done that the toolhead would not secure flush with the frame. It must always be totally flush with the frame.

These proprietary dies are very small and hard to distinguish compared to regular sized Lee dies, etc., where there is no doubt which end is up, and which end is down. :)

[jmorris]

I am aware that the the reduced diameter portion of the die, in some cases, has the lettering inverted thats why I wrote (with the caliber/station information) in (); however, the reduced diameter portion of the die does always go to the top. Also, as above the Dillon staff is 2nd to none with customer service if you get stuck give them a call. You will be rolling in no time and your blood pressure will normalize.

[brentfoto]

:banghead: That's the word I was lacking: 'inverted'. The caliber and station # engraving could be 'inverted' at times... Please review post #1, jmorris.

Dillon should add a sentence or two for the SDB, either in the tech help guide or in their Instruction Manual, as follows:

"Proprietary dies for the SDB are inserted in the frame with the flange and caliber/station # at the top of each die". That's it-plain and simple. Would save some time and uncertainty for some of us. :cuss: