Cop killed with Rhino ammo during DUI arrest


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TheeBadOne
July 3, 2003, 09:29 AM
Deputy David Jones
Garfield County Sheriff's Office, UT
End of Watch: Sunday, January 26, 2003

Age: 44
Tour of Duty: 16 mo

Deputy Jones was shot and killed during a routine traffic stop. He had pulled over a pickup truck at approximately 15:30 hours because he suspected the driver was intoxicated. While the passenger of the truck observed, the driver was given a field sobriety test and failed. Deputy Jones handcuffed the suspect and placed him in the back seat of his patrol car and called for a tow truck to pick up the suspect's vehicle.

The passenger, who had been riding in the truck, grabbed a rifle from inside the truck and pointed it at Deputy Jones. Deputy Jones drew his firearm and ordered the suspect to drop the weapon. The suspect opened fire and one round struck Deputy Jones in the chest. The round penetrated Deputy Jones's bullet resistant vest. Deputy Jones was able to return fire, sticking the suspect once.

The suspect then un-cuffed his friend and both escaped the scene. When the tow truck arrived, the driver found Deputy Jones wounded and called for help, but Deputy Jones died before an ambulance arrived.

The two suspects were apprehended within a few hours. One of the suspects had sustained gunshot wounds to the arm and chest from the shootout with Deputy Jones. Both suspects were charged with capital murder. Investigation showed that the suspect's weapon was loaded with "Rhino", or "Cop Killer" ammunition, which is designed to pierce through bullet proof materials.

Deputy Jones had been with his agency for 16 months and is survived by his wife and five children.

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Greg L
July 3, 2003, 09:57 AM
My sympathies to Officer Jones' family. I am also glad that these two slugs were caught an hopefully will be put down in short order.

That said however mentioning the ammunition used seems to be more hysterical bleating on the part of the articles author than anything else. Most any round coming out of a rifle will punch through a typical bullet resistant vest. That kind of emotional sensationalism really doesn't need to be in an article of this type (or even at the title for the thread :rolleyes: )

Greg

foghornl
July 3, 2003, 10:07 AM
anybody have an e-mail addy for that bleating crank that wrote about "Cop Killer" ammo ? ? ?

I can think of several things to say, none of which said [ahem] "reporter' wants to hear.

Jeeper
July 3, 2003, 10:10 AM
Greg

Especially at the short distance here.

Thumper
July 3, 2003, 10:13 AM
Dr. Fackler on Rhino ammo:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~confiles/blackrhino.html

TallPine
July 3, 2003, 10:14 AM
Is this approved LEO policy - to take one vehicle occupant into custody without somehow "securing" another occupant ...?

Tamara
July 3, 2003, 10:21 AM
"Rhino" "Cop-killer" ammo... :scrutiny:

Skunkabilly
July 3, 2003, 11:27 AM
Yeah, I thought the whole white rhino thing was a joke?

wingnutx
July 3, 2003, 12:14 PM
He's a lot more dead than he would be with 'sporting' ammunition.

Seriously though, that sucks.

gburner
July 3, 2003, 12:17 PM
Condolences to the officer's family.
One wonders if the press would have been happier if the late officer had been bludgeoned to death with a claw hammer.

"OFFICER KILLED WITH 'COP KILLER' HAMMER":rolleyes:

cordex
July 3, 2003, 12:20 PM
or OFFICER STABBED REPEATEDLY WITH ARMOR PIERCING ICEPICK

Cosmoline
July 3, 2003, 12:48 PM
Wait a minute. There is no such thing as "black rhino" ammunition. I've seen virtually every brand of ammo in production, and bought far too much of it. I have NEVER seen anything called "black rhino," outside of the VPC and the twisted brains of certain gun-grabbers. Has this reporter just lied? If so, let us crush this newspaper with protests.

TheeBadOne
July 3, 2003, 01:01 PM
TallPine-Is this approved LEO policy - to take one vehicle occupant into custody without somehow "securing" another occupant ...?
The driver was arrested for DUI, the passenger had not done a thing wrong at this point. Can't you see the flaming/screaming if someone posted a thread about riding in a car, in the passenger seat, when the car was stopped and the driver arrested for DUI...

"I was just sitting there in the passenger seat minding my own business, not breaking any laws (my pal the driver was the one who broke the law). The JBT cop pulled me out, searched me, and secured me in the back of a squad car while he processed my buddy. He trampled all my rights just because he had a badge on......." :rolleyes:

El Tejon
July 3, 2003, 01:17 PM
This is fraud or negligence. Something's very wrong here.:scrutiny:

gun-fucious
July 3, 2003, 01:19 PM
so was it a pistol caliber carbine rifle,
or was it a .458 rigby with hard cast rhino loads?

TheeBadOne
July 3, 2003, 01:27 PM
El Tejon This is fraud or negligence. Something's very wrong here.
The main thing that is wrong here is that a cop was murdered in cold blood.

Gewehr98
July 3, 2003, 01:32 PM
Investigation showed that the suspect's weapon was loaded with "Rhino", or "Cop Killer" ammunition, which is designed to pierce through bullet proof materials.

Since the stuff doesn't exist, and the perp's weapon of choice was a rifle, capable of sending all sorts of ammo through standard issue Kevlar vests, I'd have to take this with a grain of salt or two, pending a source for the article and who the investigators were. :(

Bobarino
July 3, 2003, 01:41 PM
can't find a email for the Sheriff's office but here is their very scant home page with a phonenumber:

http://utahreach.org/garfield/govt/sheriff.htm

my sympathies for the deputy and his family. death to his assailants.

Bobby

TallPine
July 3, 2003, 01:52 PM
TheeBadOne:

I was just asking a question - I thought maybe there was a lesson to be learned here.

It's a tough situation ... I thought maybe the policy might have been to get everyone out of the car first.

I can't believe anyone would kill over a DUI arrest.

Cosmoline
July 3, 2003, 02:32 PM
WHere did that posting come from? What's the link? I think it's terrible that a cop got shot, and I'm glad he got off a few before he went down. But this reference to "cop killer" bullets from a rifle--BULLETS THAT DO NOT FRICKING EXIST-- has raised my blood pressure. WHO WROTE THAT PIECE!? I want a piece of their hide. They reported a bald-faced LIE. Not an arguable legal issue--but a LIE. A lie designed for one purpose--to outlaw virtually all ammunition more potent than a .45 ACP, from a .44 mag to a .30'06 and beyond.

Alan Smithiee
July 3, 2003, 02:34 PM
of late in my area I have noticed a tendency to see 2 PD cars at any traffic stop. we haven't had any problems with stops,, but I think we can all agree that 2 officers on any stop is a whole lot better than just one officer.

condolences to the Officer, his family, and his dept.

and Geroge, can you kick that reporters butt?

Cosmoline
July 3, 2003, 02:39 PM
Check this out:

By late morning Monday, a search warrant was being executed at the Escalante apartment the men rented. Investigators were looking for "Rhino" bullets, commonly referred to as "cop killer" bullets, according to the warrant. The bullet that killed Jones penetrated his bullet proof vest, the warrant stated."

http://www.upoa.org/memorial/DavidJones.html

Let me get this straight. They had a warrant to search for something that DOES NOT EXIST. WHAT A BUNCH OF IDIOTS! I could have some real fun with that as the defense counsel. No indication from the report whether they found them or not
:rolleyes:

Andrew Wyatt
July 3, 2003, 02:46 PM
The main thing that is wrong here is that a cop was murdered in cold blood.


Why is it important that it was a cop who was murdered, as opposed to any other member of humanity?

spacemanspiff
July 3, 2003, 03:01 PM
a simple browser search for 'rhino armor piercing' and the first dozen or so listings all state that there is no such thing as 'black rhino' ammo, and that it was all a publicity stunt.

know what happens when a journalist takes a viagra pill?






he grows taller.

cordex
July 3, 2003, 03:08 PM
Why is it important that it was a cop who was murdered, as opposed to any other member of humanity?
Because with any group, deaths within the organization tend to cause members more angst than deaths of unknown, faceless members of the general public. When TFL/THR members die, it affects me more than deaths of individuals with whom I have no true connection. But it works on an even more vague scale. Ever watch the news? Ever see them report on overseas events by saying "Two Americans killed today in ..." or "several Americans injured when ..." even if foreigners were also killed or injured? Simple group dynamics. The general viewership is more interested in the deaths of people within their social group (in this case, as Americans) than they are with deaths of foreigners.

That said, since police are the ones charged with catching killers, there tends to be greater push for retribution when an officer is shot than if some "mere civilian" gets gunned down. This is not positive, as it tends to foster the "us versus them" attitude that can lead to all kinds of bad things.

TallPine
July 3, 2003, 03:16 PM
he grows taller.

So the reporter's name was Richard Head ...?

Cosmoline
July 3, 2003, 03:16 PM
This is not positive, as it tends to foster the "us versus them" attitude that can lead to all kinds of bad things."

Too true. The last few times an officer in this part of Alaska was killed, the police made a point of shutting down the center of Anchorage on Friday afternoon. It was as if they were saying "you don't matter--look, we can shut down your entire city at the worst possible time and you have to sit by and watch."

Owen
July 3, 2003, 03:19 PM
it was over a year ago folks.

Pebcac
July 3, 2003, 03:20 PM
Why is it important that it was a cop who was murdered, as opposed to any other member of humanity?

Why is it that some people on this board have to ask this kind of thing every time they think a law enforcement officer is being placed on a pedestal? A man died doing his job, a job that requires him to wear a bullet-resistant vest just to go to work. What do you wear to work every day?

Some folks here need to lose the tinfoil hats - not every LEO in this country is a jack-booted thug. The "us vs. them" thing is because, as illustrated in this case, you never know who's going to try to kill you. The only certainties in the mind of a police officer on duty are the folks in the same uniform as he/she is. Frankly, it's the same mentality as soldiers in the field, and it's normal human behavior.

The real issue here is that, again, a member of the media is inflating a story with false information, something that I was taught was sensationalism, commonly referred to as yellow journalism. For once, how about let's stick to the high road and leave the anti-law enforcement innuendo out. There's plenty of complaining to be done on the media's handling of the story.

[/rant]

Henry Bowman
July 3, 2003, 03:44 PM
Pebcac - You ate 100% right on target.

Cosmo - when an LEO or firefighter dies in the line of duty, frankly, I like to see the city traffic disrupted briefly. It provides a solemn reminder in the form a a momentary inconvenience - kind of like a 4th of July parage down Main Street.

CR_OPSO
July 3, 2003, 03:44 PM
Well said, cordex.
CR

HBK
July 3, 2003, 04:00 PM
That sucks, especially the "survived by a wife and five children." I wish the officer had just fired his weapon first. If the rifle was being pointed at him, he could have maybe just fired without any voice commands. I hope they execute the bastard that killed him.

TheeBadOne
July 3, 2003, 05:13 PM
TallPine-I can't believe anyone would kill over a DUI arrest.
It is as sad a fact as it is true, human life is of little value to some. :(

HBK-I wish the officer had just fired his weapon first. If the rifle was being pointed at him, he could have maybe just fired without any voice commands.
Agreed, but is it any wonder he didn't? Take in to account all the flaming/bashing/2nd guessing that goes on to a LEO when ever he uses any force, much less deadly force. I'm sure he had "Liability" dancing through his head, perhaps media headlines too, or money hungry lawyers running to the family of the dead or injured criminal. I suspect many Officers are injured/killed due to holding back. I agree it's a sad thing he left behind 5 children. How do you tell them someone (a complete stranger) killed their Dad, just because of his job, just because he was a cop? :(

pale horse
July 3, 2003, 05:35 PM
I am not trying to make light of the situation. Technically any ammo that kills cops is "cop killers."

Andrew Wyatt
July 3, 2003, 05:40 PM
You're right. He has to wear a Bullet resistant vest to go to work, and he carries a gun. That's his job. When a machinist gets killed on the job, do they name overpasses after him? Police perform a necessary function, but they're not some kind of special segment of humanity whom everyone should automatically respect more than the other people who have to do their jobs.

George Hill
July 3, 2003, 06:00 PM
This is both a sad story and a tall tale at the same time.
Sympathy for the Family.
Lothing for the criminals.
And for this reporter? Kick his butt? How can I? This guy is a victim. Obviously the product of public education... he is a Victim. I can't blame him for his ignorance. He probably even got straight A's in school.
Stupidity is everywhere. Having it show up in a newspaper is expected.

I am still not aware of any Police Officer killed by a bullet fired from a handgun that penetrated the balistic panels of his vest. Not even wounded by such. Rifles on the other hand... well, let's just say that Body Armor that can withstand multiple .308 hits to the back while a parter assembles a take-down rifle... We shall have to leave that stuff to the Mall Ninja's and the SWAT Team guys. It's too hot and heavy for patrol work.

HBK
July 3, 2003, 06:32 PM
You are right, BadOne. I just value the lives of LEOs that risk their life while doing their job as I'm sure everyone else does. The man had to be worth 100 of the scum that killed him.

cool45auto
July 3, 2003, 08:08 PM
:( That's terrible. I feel really bad for his family.

Pebcac
July 3, 2003, 08:36 PM
Andrew, by that logic, no one should bother tying yellow ribbons to trees, either. I, for one, will respect anyone who has the desire to risk his or her life day in and day out for the safety of others. I work in a technical field, safe behind a desk, and I don't expect to ever have any overpasses named after me, but I don't put myself in a potential line of fire every day, either. YMMV.

seeker_two
July 3, 2003, 09:41 PM
I'm praying for that brave officer's family & comrades...

I'm praying that the maggots that killed him meet an end at least as lethal & twice as painful...

And I'm praying that a certain reporter would try using a new ingredient in his writing---THE :cuss: TRUTH!!!


They can repeal the 2nd Amendment just as soon as they repeal the FIRST!!! :fire:

Standing Wolf
July 3, 2003, 09:51 PM
If not for lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, and plain old-fashioned fraud, leftists would have nothing to say.

JShirley
July 5, 2003, 03:12 PM
I think everyone on this board wants freedom. Virtually all of us also favor fewer restrictions on firearms (am I being redundant?).

I find it hard to believe that anyone here would be upset at a police officer firing at an individual who was, without provocation, pointing a deadly weapon at him.

John

Rhino ammo? What is that?

yesterdaysyouth
July 5, 2003, 04:31 PM
can standard police-issue body armor stop any type of high powered rifle round??? say anything more than a 220swift???

your average deer rifle chambered in .243 is now a rhino killer....

ggggrrrrrr..... :scrutiny:

Blueduck
July 5, 2003, 06:48 PM
Why is it important that it was a cop who was murdered, as opposed to any other member of humanity?

I know this is getting a bit off topic and has otherwise been addresed but, I think one point has been overlooked.

We may not agree on all laws (especially as gun owners) but if you really look at it I bet 99% of us do agree with 90% of the laws (anybody here FOR outright murder or child molestation???). Ugly as our political system sometimes appears WE as group of Americans do make the laws through the relativly free election of our officials.

When a Policeman is killed in the line of duty it was OUR policeman who died. WE put him on the street, to enforce OUR laws, to hopefully make OUR lives better. That is (or should be) the reason police getting killed garners more publicity than the average Joe. Not that any crime victims family feels less pain from the loss.

PS Please don't take the capitals as "shouting" simply emphasizing the "Personal" aspect that helps dictate the how much coverage a persons death gets.

Ala Dan
July 5, 2003, 07:15 PM
I would like to add my deepest feelings of sympathy
and condolence to the family of Deputy Jones. As all
LEO's know, its a tough world out there; and not all
people are playing with a full deck of cards!:( I hope
they prosecute those b------s to the fullest extent of
the law; and burn their butts at the stake!:uhoh: :)

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

TheeBadOne
July 5, 2003, 09:42 PM
Lieutenant George Brooks
New Tazewell Police Department, TN
End of Watch: Wednesday, February 19, 2003
http://www.odmp.org/photographs/16/5/16535.jpg
Age: 61
Tour of Duty: 29 yr

Lieutenant Brooks was struck and killed by a vehicle while conducting an investigation at the scene of a minor traffic accident on Highway 33 at 2215 hours. The driver of the vehicle that struck Lieutenant Brooks, was driving on a revoked driver's license for a prior DUI. The driver was arrested and charged with vehicular homicide.

c_yeager
July 6, 2003, 02:42 AM
I am not trying to make light of the situation. Technically any ammo that kills cops is "cop killers."

Actually i think it would be the fellow that pulled the trigger who should be classified as a "cop killer". The bullet would simply be the intrument that he used.

And as far as making a "big deal" out of the death of a firefighter or police officer i think it makes perfect sense. All these cop bashers love talking about how these guys "work for us" and how "we pay their salary". Well, thats exactly what makes it a big deal. These guys punch a clock everyday to provide us ALL with a service. And willingly put themselves in danger to do so. For that i think the least we can do is have a moment of silence or some kind of extra recognition at the news of their deaths.

rebbryan
July 6, 2003, 03:12 PM
bullet resistant vest.

got one right, no "proof", must've had help



Deputy Jones was able to return fire, sticking the suspect once.

this reporter really is dumb, he "stuck" the suspect?

bigshark14
July 6, 2003, 04:18 PM
In many jurisdictions, (probably not in rural areas) you need two cops to run DWI tests and make a DWI arrest, the cop running the tests is just at a very vulnerable position (looking into suspect's eyes, 18 inches from suspect's face, holding a finger in the air, focusing on suspect's pupils...)

Sorry to hear about the dead officer, that is just a shame, hopefully the local community can get some $$$$ together to send some of those kids to college on a scholarship or something of that nature

hammer4nc
July 6, 2003, 04:40 PM
One wonders what is the point of posting tidbits from various "fallen heroes" websites? Is there something especially significant about the particular cases, that merit discussion? Difficult to tell when these are posted with no added comment. Is the objective to merely elicit an emotional response? If enough of these are posted, will that somehow cancel out the threads having to do with police abuse? Hmmm...

To add a little objectivity, perhaps the following chart will put things in perspective?

OccupationRelative Risk*
Leading Fatal Event

Average All Jobs 1.0 Homicide and Accidents
Fishers 21.3 Drowning
Timber Cutters 20.6 Struck by Object
Airplane Pilots 19.9 Airplane Crashes
Structural Metal Workers 13.1 Falls
Taxi Cab Drivers 9.5 Homicide
Construction Workers 8.1 Vehicular, Falls
Roofers 5.9 Falls
Electric Power Installers/Repairrs 5.7 Electrocution
Truck Driver 5.3 Highway Crashes
Farm Occupations 5.1 Vehicular
Police, Detectives, Supervisors 3.4 Homicide, Highway Crashes
Nonconstruction Laborers 3.2 Vehicular
Electricians 3.2 Electrocution
Welders and Cutters 2.4 Falls, fires
Guards 2.3 Homicide
Groundkeepers and Gardeners 1.9 Vehicular
Carpenters 1.6 Falls
Auto Mechanics 1.1 Highway Crashes, Homicide
Supervisors, Proprietors, Sales 1.0 Homicide
Cashiers 0.9 Homicide

SOURCE: Data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics - Compensation and Working Conditions Online

* Relative Risk Rate is the fatality rate for a given group divided by the fatality rate for all workers. A rate of 2.0 means the worker is twice as likely as the average worker to die on the job.

http://www.governmentguide.com/issues/govsite.adp?

Matt G
July 6, 2003, 07:10 PM
We all know that it's statistically more dangerous to drive a tractor than to be a cop. (Though, again-- there's cops, and then there's cops. Every IA officer, every desk sergeant, every detective [who, contrary to what we see on NYPD Blue pretty much never kick in doors like Sipowitcz, snubby in hand], every technician who's also a sworn officer brings that down. If the list eliminated all sworn support and admin personnel who did little or no street time, the figure would be quite inflated. All commercial fishermen, however, get on the deck of boats.) So?

The topic (remember the topic?) was about the instance of the failure of a bullet-resistant vest, and the fallout accompanying it.

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