[crew590]

Hey all, I am looking at a used Charter Arms .38 (Undercover? I forget now :banghead:) and I've heard that the first gen. guns were the best quality. My question is how do I tell whether it's a first gen? Is there a certain serial number that is the cutoff (I.E. look for a serial below 20,000)? Also is $150 a decent deal?

Sorry if these questions have already been asked/answered. My ability to search could use some practice. :)

Thanks,

Jay

[Jim March]

You're looking for ALL of these elements:

* "Charter Arms" and not "CHARCO". Avoid the latter at all cost. If given one, toss it in the nearest ocean.

* Case-hardened hammer.

* Exposed ejector rod rather than shrouded.

* PASSES "THE CHECKOUT" PERFECTLY, including rock-solid zero-play cylinder (in any direction) at "full lockup". See sticky this forum.

Colors may vary. All the ones I've seen had blackened aluminum barrel shrouds and grip frames. Cylinder frame colors may vary; mine is brown of all things but that may be age-related. It looks OK and certainly isn't rust.

The Undercover can take moderate diets of 38+P, within reason.

What's going on is that the gun was originally made as a "tight lockup" design much like DA Colts such as the Python and Dick Special. Rugers and Smiths want a bit of "rotational slop" so that final alignment of cylinder bore to barrel happens at the moment of firing. It's not tops for accuracy but it's reliable.

The Colt/Charter approach can yield big accuracy gains but it's also finicky. If the rotational play at lockup is zero but it's NOT in proper alignment, things go to hell rapidly. My 1st gen Undercover is very, very accurate for a snub and to answer your question, yes I'd pay $150 for another like it. Actually, in mint condition if I wanted another, I'd pay $250 or maybe more. It's really that good a snubbie, as long as you understand what it is and how to scope one out.

The moment I can score some, I'm getting ahold of some of the new Buffalo Bore standard pressure 38s that perform like anybody else's +P. Those are PERFECT for a Charter Undercover. I'm going to start with the 158 hollowpoint flavor but the 125 isn't without merit.

[pinkymingeo]

I have an Off-Duty from the 90's with a serial 964xxx. They were still making quality guns at that time. The hammer is blued, but the unshrouded barrel has the critical words "Charter Arms, Stratford, Conn". Lockup is solid, trigger decent, and the gun shoots amazingly well. If Charter had put a decent finish on these things, had good management and smart marketing, they'd own a big percentage of the market.

[crew590]

Alright, thank guys. I will go and take another look at it after I print out the checkout process. It might be my first revolver. :)

Jay

[rdrancher]

crew590 - Good luck with your purchase. Watch out though...this revolver thing is addicting!

Jim March - I just picked up an Undercover for $150 OTD this morning. The pawn shop included a gun lock thanks to the Brady bunch. Funny thing is, is that it's brown just as you described. It passed all of the "checks" with flying colors.

Judging from what I've been able to find concerning serial numbers this particular snubby is a mid-seventies model (430xxx). It is stamped Stratford, Conn.

If the trigger on my NIB 642-1 ever feels as buttery-smooth as the one on this Undercover...I'll be a happy man! :D

rd

[Jim March]

Yup.

One other thing: the good Charters I've handled had a trigger that stacked slightly at the end of the stroke. This isn't a "bad" thing, more of a "personal preference" deal. I find I can actually hold my trigger back right on the cusp of firing and do a final release that is very similar to an SA trigger stroke. Takes pretty strong hands I suspect...I've ridden motorcycles long enough to build up respectable grip strength.

Anyways. Some people like a dead-steady-all-the-way-through DA trigger while some like "stackers" The Charter design usually exhibits just enough stacking to tell you it's going to break, without being obnoxious - IF of course it's a good one.

Don't ever forget there are bad Charters out there even from the "Golden Age" (mid to late '70s definitely qualifies) where they were either a "bad monday gun" or fed too much crapola "38+P+" fodder that should have been labeled "357 but in a shorter case". Finding somebody to take a beater Charter back to a high state of tune will be difficult and expensive at best. PASS on any Charter that fails checkout or even if minor rotational cylinder play at full lockup is present.

[Gator]

An early Charter Arms snubby .38 Spl was my first handgun; purchased in the late '70s :o
It functioned fine and was fairly accurate for a snub nosed revolver, but it only lasted 3-400 rounds before parts started falling off and it was so loose it was shaving lead. I would say one would be OK for a bedside gun that wouldn't get shot much, but if you plan to take it to the range get something else!

[crew590]

Thanks guys, I did pick this revolver up yesterday morning for $159.00 OTD and my experience matches exactly with rdrancher's even down to the color. :)

I went out and shot it yesterday evening and it shots fairly well. I will have to get used to the smaller grips though. I am looking forward to the fact that it will be a lot easier to carry than my other gun (a Springfield XD40 Tactical).

Jay

[Ala Dan]

We bought a very early Charter Arms Undercover .38 Special last Monday,
without box or docs for $120. It was minty, haven been taken real good
care of; but the owner decided that he just did not need it any longer. :(

[Jim March]

Gator: was your gun a 38Spl or a 44Spl?

We know the 44s fell apart that quick. Still do. The 38s are what are being discussed in this thread.

[Gator]

Oops, guess I should have specified. It was a .38 Spl and I was shooting factory ammo; probably 158 gr semi-wadcutters.

[rdrancher]

Hey folks,

I just got home from work and fired off 20 rounds of Lawman 158 GR. TMJ out of my newly purchased Undercover at my favorite (dead) target tree.

The Charter performed better than I expected. I'll have to check accuracy tomorrow since I was zinging 'em out there in the dark.

Nice muzzle flash I must say.

I checked the Undercover's weight against my 642's 15.5 oz. just for kicks. It's right at 19 oz. with the Pachmeyer grips. Not bad at all since it weighs the same loaded as my Bersa Thunder .380 weighs empty!

I'll be looking for some Buffalo Bore SD ammo for this baby and put it into daily carry rotation.

This one's a keeper!

rd

[crew590]

Now that I have the gun, does anyone know of a decent holster that I can carry it with? Is it similar to another type of revolver (I.E. could I use a S&W holster)? Right now I just have an Uncle Mike's OWB.

The Undercover can take moderate diets of 38+P, within reason.

How many rounds of +P ammo would you consider moderate? The reason I ask is I stopped by Wal-Mart today and picked up a 100 round box and when I got home noticed they were +P. (I should have checked before hand, I know). Would you recommend shooting them all at once or try and spread them out over time?

Thanks,

Jay

[Jim March]

"Moderate" refers to both power level and amount.

In terms of amount...hmmm...I'd spread that out, maybe ending every session with a cylinder or two. Note that most of the time, 125gr (and to some extent 110gr) +P will be nastier on the gun than 158+P. The difference won't be extreme but it'll be there.

In terms of power: the Buffalo Bore +Ps are stout enough that my personal policy is "avoid". The +Ps that *should* do the least stress are the Winchester and Remington 158+P plain lead hollowpoints. Power is similar between these but the Remmie lead is softer, better for snub performance (expansion at lower speed). BuffBore's standard-pressure 158 performs much like the Remmie except lower peak pressure, flash-suppressed power for night vision preservation and a gascheck for less leading. Wonderful round. Expensive though.

One final point: check your screws after each shooting session, particularly the cross-ways screws in the primary frame. If they back out and you keep shooting, you'll just thrash the gun to death. If they DO back out (one of mine did once) just use blue locktite. Just half a drop on one side of the threads. NOT RED LOCKTITE! Other similar brands also use the red/blue codes where "red" means "ain't coming off without a blowtorch"...

:)