[2dogs]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Southwest/07/02/crime.spit.reut/index.html

Man gets life in prison for spitting

Wednesday, July 2, 2003 Posted: 3:16 PM EDT (1916 GMT)



OKLAHOMA CITY (Reuters) -- An Oklahoma man arrested on suspicion of beating his wife faced year in prison and a fine. But when he spit in an arresting officer's face, he got a life sentence instead, officials said Wednesday.

John Carl Marquez, 36, was convicted of "placing bodily fluid upon a government employee," a felony that can carry a life sentence because of the possibility of transmitting a potentially deadly disease.

State judge April Sellers White sentenced Marquez this week even though Marquez and the officer tested negative for any communicable disease.

Marquez also was convicted of assaulting a police officer, and a jury recommended the maximum sentence because he had previous convictions.

Marquez, arrested several months ago, could have received one year in prison and a $3,000 fine for wife beating, according to the Creek County court clerk's office.

His lawyers said they plan to appeal.

[cameroneod]

You have GOT to be kidding. Granted the guy is a dumb ??? for spitting in the cops face, but that sentance is the definition of "cruel and unusual."

[Ebbtide]

And to think I thought 2dogs was being sensational with his topic line.

[Tamara]

This is the very definition of ridiculous. What message are they trying to send? "Don't spit on the king's men"? Laws like this wind up being nothing but big, dumb bundles of unintended consequences...

[4v50 Gary]

Dunno 'bout everyone else, but bodily fluids can contain HIV and if the victim has an open wound, it could result in a death sentence for the victim. I can see the reasoning of the lawmakers, but perhaps it can moderated with a mandatory HIV test of the aggressor with results (nevermind the patient-doctor privilege) shared with the victim.

[Mike Irwin]

Gary,

Yes, definitely the case, but I have SERIOUS problems about someone drawing a life sentence for this when he's not ill.

I really hope the guy appeals and wins.

Prior to the AIDS epidemic, I believe several people spit on police officers and got off on First Amendment grounds...

[Tamara]

Yes, and before AIDS, saliva could have contained TB or other diseases.

However, if Mr. Marquez did not have any contagious diseases, then he was merely expressing both his distaste with the situation and his shocking lack of good breeding. Neither of these are imprisonable offenses, much less equivalent to assault with intent to kill.

[Jeff White]

I don't know what the Oklahoma law says, but most statutes I've seen make it a felony if the offender knowingly attempts to transmit a disease by spitting or other speading of bodily fluids.

I'm going to withhold judgement until some more details are out. I don't think the law provides for a mandatory life sentence. So let's find out what other things factored into the judge giving him a life sentence.

Jeff

[Graystar]

We punish people for what they have done....not for what they could have done. If he didn't infect the officer then he doesn't deserve such a sentence. Hopefully the appeals court will recognize this.

[DontShootMe]

Just watch and see - soon there will be so many ways to commit 'felonies' that RKBA will be a moot point. We'll all just be a bunch of felons.

And of course, felons cant possess (or even be near) firearms.

Glimpse of 2015:

Purchase/Possess JHP's ??? = Felony
25 mph over speed limit = Felony
Use firearm for SD without being shot first = Felony
Speak against the current administration = Felony
Fail to pay IRS on time = Felony
Chop a tree down in the forest = Felony
Spit on a gubmint employee = Felony

:fire:

[4v50 Gary]

Don't disagree with you Tamara & Mike & others regarding the sentencing. That's why I would include something to moderate it and that something being the mandatory testing for HIV. BTW, testing should be conducted for the victim too to establish a "base-line" for future tests in case HIV does develop.

This raises another issue. Say the suspect was HIV and said suspect spats on the victim with intent of infecting the victim. Say victim, unknown to suspect, is already HIV positive? What then? I would go for life b/c of intent can be established.

Turning to the case of our officer involved here, it's a battery and should be treated as such (with perhaps some enhancement for the mental distress).

[DontShootMe]

We punish people for what they have done....not for what they could have done.

Care to comment on DUI checkpoints?

[mjydrafter]

And of course, felons cant possess (or even be near) firearms.

Add in selected misdemeanors as well (see '96 lautenburg act). Spouses of those convicted of certain misdemeanors can't even have firearms in thier residence, just like the rules for felonies. Unconstitutional BS. I won't start in on the ex post facto factor.

If this guy does turn out to be clean (HIV/AIDS), how will they justify the extended sentence?

If this is a mandatory minium thing, it's a sad state of affairs, for those on the judiciary can't impose justifiable justice.

[spacemanspiff]

sooooo, can i draw on the guy whos mad at me and hocking up a big loogie?

"i swear officer, my life flashed before my eyes when i saw him snorting that spitball. i was in fear for my life! i had to defend myself with 9 rounds of .45, it was him or me!"

[2dogs]

hocking up a big loogie

The dreaded "assault loogie"- must be banned!:neener:

[TheeBadOne]

Don't disagree with you Tamara & Mike & others regarding the sentencing. That's why I would include something to moderate it and that something being the mandatory testing for HIV
There in lies the rub. You cannot force someone to give you their medical records or submit to a test. This has been a problem even in rape/aslt cases. Some states are passing or trying to pass laws on this, but it doesn't cover Police Officers (who get bit, spit on , stuck with needles, or bled on). That is the reason for the courts punishing that type of conduct. The Cop cannot get peace of mind by having the perp tested or having his medical records looked at. Private information is held above all.

[Sheslinger]

God forbid we punish rapists and murderers in the "crual and unusual manner" instead...

Sheslinger

[Sheslinger]

And what if he has some disease he is unaware of? How would anyone prove that he knowingly tried to harm the officer?

[TheeBadOne]

I think the point is now days, compaired to past days, we are aware of the risks/dangers posed by bodily fluids. Now that the danger is known it is not tolerated. People use to have lead pipes for drinking water and asbestos insulation and never thought twice about it. Now we know better. Condom use went up with the spread of AIDS, and so now has awareness of the ease that terminal disease can be spread by spit/blood/bile/feces/urine.

[TallPine]

Oh yeah, nice message to send out: "you may as well shoot a cop instead of spit on him[her] - the punishment is the same"

Not saying that I think that - just that some people may get that message and LEOs everywhere will be in greater danger.

[Mike Irwin]

"Care to comment on DUI checkpoints?"

I beg your pardon?

Being stopped and questioned at a DUI checkpoint is NOT punishment.

Being stopped and questioned at a DUI checkpoint and found to be driving while impaired, then taken into custody, processed, and held, is NOT punishment.

Standing in front of a judge, being fined $2,500 or more, having your license suspended, etc. IS punishment.

[Mike Irwin]

"And what if he has some disease he is unaware of? How would anyone prove that he knowingly tried to harm the officer?"

If he didn't know he had the disease, that's one thing. Proof then would be impossible.

That fact wouldn't, however, negate the individual's culpability for lesser charges, such as attempted manslaughter, reckless endangerment, etc.

[Graystar]

Care to comment on DUI checkpoints? I fail to see the similarity. The act of driving while under the influence is a crime, so a person doing so has already done the deed and is guilty. A checkpoint doesn't impose jail time. The police have *always* had the power to simply pull you over just to make sure your license, registration and insurance are valid. Is it right to use that power for the purpose of smelling your breath? Is that an abuse of that power? Could be. But that's a completely separate issue than the issue presented in the case at hand.

[sanchezero]

I'd see the potential to charge him with assault with a deadly, but only if he's positive.

If his 'victim' then contracts and dies of a communicable disease it seems like manslaughter, maybe murder 2.

These charges rarely get life sentences.

:scrutiny:

I think it's crap, a big steaming pile of it.

:p

[rock jock]

I remember a couple of years back, the ACT UP group was planning on throwing what they said was HIV-tainted blood on politicians who were not willing to put the country into bankruptcy to fund AIDS research. I think they actually threw some blood, but it ended up being cows blood. The point being that intentionally infecting someone with a deadly disease is tantamount to murder, or at least attempted murder if the target doesn't die. Had I been in this officer's shoes, the suspect might be at room temperature right now.

[EJ]

You have to be able to prevent this kind of thing-- Intentionally infecting a PO in line of duty--
Maybe not life--but def should be a felony--

[Mike Irwin]

I'd say that using deadly force in such a situation certainly IS warranted, Rock Jock, especially if the person says "I'm gonna give you AIDS" or something like that and then attempts to spit or bite.

[4v50 Gary]

ThreeBadOne - unless I'm mistaken, CA has such a law that will compel a sample (via a medico and not by the officers of course) from a subject who is suspected of infecting others.

[TheeBadOne]

Gary, my god! :eek: CA is ahead of the curve in something!? :eek: ;)

[rick newland]

Could of said he got off easy, spit it a cop's face that is in a bad mood and it could of turned into a death sentence.

[morganm01]

Before passing judgement....this guy may have a lengthy criminal background. Lots of publicity is given to the shoplifting 3 strikers here in Kalifornia, but no mention is given to the fact that they also have commited something like 9-12 home invasions.

[EJ]

Also it was a jury decision--



SAPULPA, Okla. (July 3) - A convicted rapist has been sentenced to life in prison for spitting on a police officer.

Creek County Associate District Judge April Sellers White followed the recommendation of a jury for the maximum sentence against John C. Marquez under a law that makes it a felony to place bodily fluids on law enforcement officers.

White rejected a prosecution request for a 25-year prison term and a defense request for a four-year term.

Following sentencing Monday, Marquez's attorney, Jason Serner, promised an appeal to the state Court of Criminal Appeals. No appeal had been filed by Thursday.

Marquez, 35, was convicted of hurling body fluids on Sapulpa Officer Charles Gadd while Gadd was taking Marquez to jail following a domestic disturbance in which a woman's arm was broken.

The 1996 state law that makes it a felony to place bodily fluids on law enforcement officers was enacted amid concerns that deadly diseases, such as AIDS, could be transmitted this way.

Gadd told the jury that Marquez spit on him despite being warned and then bit him when Gadd was trying to prevent Marquez from spitting again.

Gadd and Marquez tested negative for any communicable diseases.

The jury took 15 minutes on May 14 to recommend the life sentence. Marquez's prior felony convictions, including rape and burglary, were taken into consideration in determining the sentence.

In addition to the life term, Marquez received one year in jail and a $3,000 fine for his conviction for domestic assault and a $500 fine for resisting a peace officer.

Telephone calls to the judge, the prosecuting attorney and the defense attorney were not returned Thursday.

07/03/03 12:38 EDT

Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.

[Giant]

"remember a couple of years back, the ACT UP group was planning on throwing what they said was HIV-tainted blood on politicians who were not willing to put the country into bankruptcy to fund AIDS research. I think they actually threw some blood, but it ended up being cows blood."

MAD COW DISEASE... My god what were they thinking? Oh the humanity of it.

On this question of cop spitting upon, crime and punishment, what ever happend to the legel concept of the punishment fitting the crime.

Cops know there is a bit of danger to the job, life in prison is an appropriate punishment for spitting on a cop? Lots of what if and yeah but here, but not life in prison.

The courts are already sending the message that everyone must bow down to and submit to the ruling class. This should not be allowed to continue very much longer. A thought or two and an opinion.

Giant

[jimpeel]

"placing bodily fluid upon a government employee," Which begs the question; are we allowed to "place bodily fluids upon" non-governmental persons? Why are government employees afforded greater protection under the law than the rest of us and isn't this an equal protection issue?

[TallPine]

This is nothing to sneeze at ...

[rock jock]

Cops know there is a bit of danger to the job
Yeah, and when that danger is caused by another person, there should be punishment associated with it, same as with you and me.

[dustind]

I think Jimpeel is on to something

[jimpeel]

It is fortunate that Japan has no law like this; or George Herbert Walker Bush would still be cooling his heels in a Japanese prison for barfing in the lap :barf: of the Japanese President.

[Nightfall]

Life for spitting on an officer, that's a bit much, unless some deadly infection was transmitted.

Personally, I've got a neat idea. Instead of jailing him for spitting on a LEO... how about we fry him for being a wife beating rapist? Maybe if we killed more criminals convicted beyond a reasonable doubt, we could greatly cut down on that 'repeat offender' thing.

[Duncan Idaho]

Life for spitting on an officer, that's a bit much, unless some deadly infection was transmitted.According to everything that I have read here, he did not get "Life for spitting on an officer..."

He got life because he was finally put in front of a jury that had some brains. They saw a lifelong felon before them, and used the law (however questionable it may be) to put this mad dog away. It took them only 15 minutes to do so. Good for them.

Back when this country was inhabited by civilized people - instead of worthless hand-wringing sheeple - a rat like this guy would have been strung up from the nearest tree on the occasion of having been found guilty of a heinous crime, THE FIRST TIME AROUND!!!

Here is hoping for him to find happiness in his new cellmate Bubba, or vice versa. :rolleyes:

[Combat-wombat]

Oh, COME ON! You have GOT to be kidding!

[HBK]

Spitting on someone is pretty nasty and at the very least deserves a good butt whipping. Ditto the fact that we should be concentrating on the fact that he's a wife beating rapist. He should be executed.

[benEzra]

Just to clarify, I don't think HIV can be transmitted via saliva unless there is blood in your mouth.

[dustind]

Thas what I have always heard BenErza.

[Bob R]

IIRC there has been one case of HIV transmission through kissing (the sharing of saliva). One was HIV+ and while enjoying the company of the other did pass the virus through blood in he saliva. Both had pretty poor dentation, including bleeding gums.

http://www.managingdesire.org/mmwrkiss.html


I am also on the same page as others who wonder why only a certain segment of society is afforded the protection of laws relating to the placement of bodily fluids on their person. I guess whenever I have a spitter in the ER I need a LEO to stand between me and the spitter until I can get a mask on him/her.

bob

[Sarge]

when liberal elitists (sometimes masquerading as conservatives, nonetheless) take over the country?

25 years ago, if you spit in a cop's face you'd be spitting some teeth out shortly thereafter. Then we got all politically correct and decided that the individual officer shouldn't be doing such a barbaric thing- so we gave him $500 worth of chemical agents, stun guns, and little batons that look like an old car antenna on steroids. Of course we still manage to get sued using all this new-age crap, but that don't matter because....

Big Brother to the rescue!!! Now the Gubmit is protecting us poor, disabused po-leese-men from spitters by sending these monsters to jail for LIFE. You the taxpayer now get to feed and medicate this jerk for life, and pay for his endless appeals. In the old days all he needed was a couple of stitches and maybe a trip to the dentist, and the taxpayers only had to pay for that occasionally. See how much we have inmproved?

Spitting on a cop is stupid, particularly stupid if you happen to spit on an old salt who may not have adapted to the new procedure quite so well. But making it a life-sentence felony is insane. Tamara (I think) said it better than anyone else with that bit about "spitting on the King's men".

No cop, no politician, no president beathes life that is more valuable than a housewife, truck driver or hobo. The very notion that we should enhance punishment for crimes against special classes of individuals, flies in the face of "equal protection under the law".

Nobody twisted my arm to get into law enforcement, and I knew there were certain risks when I pinned a badge on. I can always quit and do something else if I want to. Hell, I could probably make as much money driving a milk truck anyway.

[Seminole]

IIRC there has been one case of HIV transmission through kissing (the sharing of saliva). One was HIV+ and while enjoying the company of the other did pass the virus through blood in he saliva. Both had pretty poor dentation, including bleeding gums.

EEEEEUUUUUWWWW!!! Yuck, yuck, yuck!!!!!!!! Gross! http://burns.thefinaldimension.org/cwm/3dlil/puke.gif