? on shipping firearms whthin one state.


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willsnipe
August 15, 2007, 01:10 PM
Gentlemen,
I could use your help. I'm trying to work a deal with a gentleman on a couple handguns. He is in my state, but about 200 miles away, so a face to face is a little spendy with gas prices as they are. I've explained to him the fact that private parties can ship to each other with no FFL involvement as long as said shipment doesn't cross state lines. I provided him with a link to the best refrence I'm aware of at http://www.gunbroker.com/Support/SupportFAQView.asp?faqid=1118 . He has asked for a few of you to verify that all this is on the level. Thanks in advance for your assistance.

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Redstick
August 15, 2007, 01:44 PM
It happens all the time and is totally leagle and above board!
In this state, it can go from person to person without having to go through an FFL.

jasonkjasonk
August 15, 2007, 02:46 PM
100% Legal.....he just has to ship via an approved carrier and overnight. The best and cheapest route is UPS Saver Overnight, insure it and require adult signature.

Here is exactly what the ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4) says:
(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state

I usually require that I get a copy of their drivers license and then ship to the address on there, that way I know exactly who it's going to.

J

rutten
August 15, 2007, 03:13 PM
As long as it is done inside of the state it is all UP AND UP Legal. No need to go through a FFL dealer. Have done several in my state. I find it easiest to send USPS priority insured .

GonHuntin
August 15, 2007, 03:17 PM
That's true as far as federal law goes, but some state laws prohibit "private transfers".......what state are you in????

PS: It is illegal to mail a handgun unless it goes from and FFL to an FFL......there are some exceptions for military and law enforcement, but generally, it is a big no-no!

tydephan
August 15, 2007, 03:17 PM
Have done several in my state. I find it easiest to send USPS priority insured .

You can use USPS for instate shipping? I thought that only FFL's could use USPS shipping?

rutten
August 15, 2007, 03:36 PM
Have never had a bit of problem in Montana using USPS. I have been doing it for several years. Maybe something has changed recently but never had a problem. When I ship handguns out of state I use my FFL dealer.

Taurus44
August 15, 2007, 03:52 PM
You can ship long-guns via USPS, but handguns have to go through a contract carrier (UPS or FedEx).

nalioth
August 15, 2007, 04:12 PM
PS: It is illegal to mail a handgun unless it goes from and FFL to an FFL......there are some exceptions for military and law enforcement, but generally, it is a big no-no! Not true, they must go overnight, unless the shipment is between FFL licensees. Buyer must be legally able to own handguns in your state, as well.

You can ship long-guns via USPS, but handguns have to go through a contract carrier (UPS or FedEx). If USPS had reliable overnight service, you could use them, too.

Whirlwind06
August 15, 2007, 04:20 PM
If the pistol goes across state lines to a UPS shipping hub. Then back into your state, you might have a problem.

CountGlockula
August 15, 2007, 04:31 PM
Every state has different laws. I'd suggest speaking with a "PROFESSIONAL" FFL dealer or calling your local Sheriff/Dept. of Justice to confirm.

wdlsguy
August 15, 2007, 05:15 PM
Willsnipe needs to let us know what state he lives in. It's entirely possible that state law prohibits what he wants to do. As far as the feds are concerned:
(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

[B]A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b8

Anna's Dad
August 15, 2007, 05:19 PM
Please see the ATF FAQ:
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b

B1, B2 and B16 cover sales within the same state.
B7 and B8 cover shipping.

Futuristic
August 15, 2007, 05:25 PM
Whirlwind06 wrote:
If the pistol goes across state lines to a UPS shipping hub. Then back into your state, you might have a problem.

A. Check your punctuation/grammar.

B. NO, you DO NOT have a problem. This is one of the points of commercial carriers, they are treated differently under the law just so that issues like this don't become a problem.

An example: I mail an (evil :evil: ) 30 round magazine to a friend in Utah. On the way there, the package goes through a UPS sorting center in California. Did a crime occur? (Leaving out how Poorly written Cali's anti-Mag law is...)

NO. Carriers are treated special and once you hand the package off to them, they are the custodians. You are not then responsible for it ending up anywhere EXCEPT its final destination. If it was legal where you sent it from, and legal where you addressed it to, you are good to go. (Note: There are a scant few exceptions to this, but they mostly involve cases where you KNOWINGLY try to get stuff to go through a place it isn't allowed, like Canada.)

Futuristic

yongxingfreesty
August 15, 2007, 05:25 PM
he is in TX and I am in TX, just wanted to make sure I can do this with a handgun.

I will be shipping UPS overnight.

thanks for everyones reply, feel free to add anything else I might have missed.

dlrow
August 15, 2007, 10:58 PM
a while back I had a similar question.

I called up the local Houston BATF field office. Told the guy my scenario, he was kind enough to express an opinion on my situation. he then referred me to a website to back up his position.

your govt money hard at work :)

your mileage may vary if you end up with the wrong guy on the phone.... but it is a free phone call.

GonHuntin
August 16, 2007, 02:19 PM
Nalioth.....I'd suggest you do a bit more research before you tell me what I posted is not true.....if you are not an FFL holder and you mail a handgun, you are committing a federal felony....unless you falll under one of the Government/Law Enforcement exceptions.....

Cosmoline
August 16, 2007, 02:29 PM
I find it easiest to send USPS priority insured .

For long guns, NOT for handguns.

It is VERY ILLEGAL to ship any handgun anywhere via the USPS. It must go by a willing common carrier or by FedEx/UPS even if it's staying in state.

Novus Collectus
August 16, 2007, 02:57 PM
I must add, that applies to "handguns" by federal law definition and not all handguns.
Antique handguns can be shipped by USPS and newly made "antique" handguns by definition in federal law can be shipped by USPS.
431.3 Antique Firearm
An antique firearm (including one with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) is any firearm manufactured in or before 1898, or a replica of such a firearm, that meets either of the following conditions:

a. It is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.

b. It uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available through commercial trade channels. ....



...c. Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are generally permitted, as specified in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM 601.11.2. http://pe.usps.gov/text/pub52/pub52c4_003.html#PSk741320edwa

American_Pit_Bull
August 17, 2007, 03:13 AM
Not true, they must go overnight, unless the shipment is between FFL licensees.It is not a law, only the carriers policy that dictates that the firearm must be overnighted... And only FFLs can mail handguns via USPS, overnight or not.

Nalioth.....I'd suggest you do a bit more research before you tell me what I posted is not true.....if you are not an FFL holder and you mail a handgun, you are committing a federal felony....unless you falll under one of the Government/Law Enforcement exceptions.....It is perfectly legal to ship a handgun intrastate to a resident of the state that you reside in.

As long as state laws do not require you to go through an FFL for private party transfers, he is well within the law when shipping directly to another resident of his state.

MisterPX
August 17, 2007, 03:40 AM
Legal to SHIP, not MAIL pistols intraate for individuals. I think that's where Gon and Nal are buttin heads.

nalioth
August 17, 2007, 11:44 AM
My mistake, I thought it was overnight on handguns and the USPS didn't have overnight service (although they say they do, it's not.).

MisterPX
August 17, 2007, 03:38 PM
Handguns have to go by UPS/FedEx/SpeeDee, etc. Those company policies say overnight.

yongxingfreesty
August 22, 2007, 03:14 AM
can I bring it to any UPS store?

if not, ill have a fed ex account to ship it overnight. am i doing this right?

MisterPX
August 22, 2007, 03:31 AM
Most UPS Stores are franchises, and won't do guns or ammo. Best bet is a Hub. FedEx will work too, you've got the right idea.

NavyLCDR
August 22, 2007, 09:37 AM
The rule for whether you can use a "store" or not - the person at the counter must be an actual employee of the contract carrier. Most "stores" are not owned by the carrier and therefore do not have carrier employees working there.

One BIG exception to this is FEDEX/KINKO's. FEDEX/KINKO's are owned by FEDEX and have real (albeit sometimes not familiar with Fedex rules) FEDEX employees at the shipping counter. You can ship handguns from a FEDEX/KINKO's.

Here is my story: sending Thompson Contender to T/C for repairs, interstate shipment. Took it to FEDEX/Kinko's knowing full well it had to go overnight. I told the clerk it was a handgun. He asked to open the package. He opened it, looked at the T/C - didn't touch it. Closed up the package. Asked how I wanted to ship it?!? I ask what are the options. He said ground or air?!? I said ground. I paid like $9.00 instead of the $54 and all went well. Did I break any Federal or State laws - NO! Only FEDEX company policy was broken and that was by the FEDEX employee. If they lost my gun, would they have re-imbursed me? Probably not, but I gambled and won, a few weeks later the gun shows up on a UPS truck at my house.

Flame Red
August 22, 2007, 10:28 AM
Here is my experience FWIIW. Last time I shipped a handgun via a common carrier, it cost me $80 overnight plus I had to drive almost an hour to go to their main depot. What a rip off. Plus the counter person gave me the thrid degree.

Now I go to my favorite FFL, and he charges me a flat $20 fee to ship a handgun insured via USPS via priority mail for an additional $23 postage.

You tell me which is better, $80 for UPS or $43 for FFL?

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