[MicroBalrog]

People keep asking me about "how do you get a gun in Israel". Being that I'm getting tired of it:D , here's a brief explanation.

Firearms Act, 1949, gives a lot of discretion on the subject to the Ministry of The Interior and the Ministry of Defense. The offshoot of this is

A)According to the law, anything with a barrel that shoots objects that can harm a human, or any part of such an item is a firearm. MoI has discretion. Currently, airguns are firearms. Further, the Ministry of Defense has the authority to define what firearms are "military firearms" - barring access to common serfs. Ever since 1950, any rifle larger than .22 and any automatic weapon were firearms.

B) The MoD can decide who it gives licenses to. The current policy is that gun licenses can be only given to:

a)People inheriting guns (no carry, possession only)
b)Hunters (2 shotguns only)
c)ex-military captains, private guards, taxi/bus drivers, gold dealers, inhabitants of danger zones (1 handgun only.)
d)target shooters (2 guns only)
e)Civil guard volunteers (1 handgun
f)Civil Guard Snipers (rifles)

.22 rifles are banned, except grandfathered ones, hunting with rifles is illegal. Any form of outdoor shooting is illegal. People may only buy 50 rounds per year, except those shot at public ranges.

Note that inhabitants of "danger zones" often get issued full-auto guns.

Did I mention that currently they have a moratorium on issuing airgun licenses?:fire: :fire:

[spacemanspiff]

so who carries concealed in Israel?

did you read the article in SWAT about the Israeli defense seminar? i like their methods! pull trigger as many times as possible, reload, shoot twice more to the head!

[MicroBalrog]

Spacemanspiff - when you get your gun license, there's generally no restriction on how you carry it.

[Henry Bowman]

Is category (c) open to wide discretion, or not?

[cordex]

when you get your gun license, there's generally no restriction on how you carry it.
Does this apply to long arms as well? For instance, if you got a hunter's license and had a shotgun, would you be allowed to tote that around?

[MicroBalrog]

Is category (c) open to wide discretion, or not?

Define "wide discretion"?

[MicroBalrog]

when you get your gun license, there's generally no restriction on how you carry it.


Does this apply to long arms as well? For instance, if you got a hunter's license and had a shotgun, would you be allowed to tote that around?

Hunters - yes. AFAIK it is only those who own inherited fireams, and sportsmen that cannot carry them.

[Henry Bowman]

Well, does it matter is one is "connected"? I.e., does discretion = (at least potential) discrimination?

Just curious. Really appreciate the info of your post. I hadn't given it a lot of thought, but I did have some misconceptions.

[MicroBalrog]

Henry: Generally, it's may-issue licensing, with a cap on the total amount of licenses given out per year, and they don't have to tell you why you are refused. So even while some Arabs have gun licenses, they are much less likely to get them than Jews, I presume.
For most qualifications, one must provide proof that he qualifies (proof of work as guard, taxi-driver, etc.), however two caveats apply, as far as I can guess:

A)Ex-military officers of this rank tend to be well-connected.
B)Some "dangerous zone" villages make a business of letting people have an address at that village entered in their ID (Israel has national ID's), which allows people to apply as "danger zone inhabitants".

[MicroBalrog]

Also, rumour has it that gun dealers (many having "connections") can "arrange licenses", basically, that "the more expensive your gun, the more likely you are to get a license", but I can't tell you if it's true. Sound realistic.

[Henry Bowman]

Thanks, MB

[MicroBalrog]

You're welcome.:rolleyes:

[chaim]

Both a question for you and a rant (not directed towards anyone here).

First the question, I've wondered this for years. In Israel there are several catagories that allow gun ownership and each one specifies a particular number of guns that are allowed. Target shooters get two, civil guard gets one, dangerous/strategic areas (specific towns/regions are listed as said dangerous areas or areas of strategic importance) get one, etc. Well, can you qualify under more than one catagory. I.E. if you live in an area catagorized as dangerous, and you are a member of a target club and you are a member of the civil guard and you are a civil guard sniper can you own four handguns (one for the area you live in, one as a member of the civil guard and two as a target shooter) and one rifle?

This isn't completely hypothetical because if grad school doesn't work out I am considering studying in a yeshiva in Israel for smicha (rabbinical ordination), probably Bat Ayin (a yeshiva somewhat affiliated with the Breslov Chassidic movement) which is in an area which should certainly qualify as "dangerous", or I may attend either Ohr Somayach or Aish Ha Torah in Jerusalem. Oh if anyone is curious here are the websites: Bat Ayin (http://www.batayin.org/index.htm), Aish (http://www.aish.com/), and Ohr Somayach (http://www.ohr.org.il/) (note the last two are far more than Yeshivot and have a lot of interesting info for those with questions about Judaism and Israel).



The MoD can decide who it gives licenses to. The current policy is that gun licenses can be only given to:

...b)Hunters (2 shotguns only)...


ARRRGH!!!!

Israel is supposedly a Jewish state. Why should people be rewarded for breaking Jewish law?:banghead:

Hunting is against Halacha (Jewish law). By Halacha we must keep kosher and if an animal hasn't been killed in a very particular manner (shooting isn't good enough) it is not kosher. We also are not allowed to kill anything, including animals, without a good reason and we certainly can't kill for fun or pleasure. Thus hunting, for a Jew, is forbidden.

Now Israel is a secular Jewish state and not a theocracy (whether or not this is the correct state of affairs is a debate for another thread, and this forum isn't the place for it). As such I am not saying that people who do not keep Jewish law should be punished for it. What I am saying is that in a supposedly Jewish state people who break Jewish law should not be rewarded for it. Allowing a hunter who is breaking Jewish law to own two shotguns, and forbiding ownership of a shotgun (argueably the best home defense weapon) for a religious Jew who doesn't hunt because of the requirements of Halacha is penalizing those who do keep Jewish law and rewarding those who don't! This is especially galling since a favorite tactic of some of the terrorist groups is home invasion and killing the occupants of the houses they enter, and this is primarily done in religious neighborhoods. :fire:

[MicroBalrog]

can you own four handguns (one for the area you live in, one as a member of the civil guard and two as a target shooter) and one rifle?

Yes, but you should go through the licensing procedure 4 times.


To your other question:

and this is primarily done in religious neighborhoods

Places where this is usually done are "danger zones".

Did I note the policy of denying/withdrawing licenses to the "ideologically unsound"?

[chaim]

quote:
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can you own four handguns (one for the area you live in, one as a member of the civil guard and two as a target shooter) and one rifle?
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Yes, but you should go through the licensing procedure 4 times. Hmm, that is good to know, so if I go to Israel to study at some point I might be able to own a few guns while there (of course I'd have to take dual citizenship to be allowed to, but if I'm going to study there for five years I probably will so I can own guns and vote). I wonder if I'd be able to bring any of my guns from here (and bring them back after), I guess I'll need to look into the laws on importation of your own privately owned arms.


For the second answer, yes those are usually considered dangerous areas so the people there can own handguns, however shotguns are more effective at home defense and people who keep Torah law (and thus aren't hunters) can't own a shotgun. I actually have a problem with any overly restrictive gun laws but where one group isn't treated equally under the law (i.e. you must be a hunter for a shotgun, the most effective HD weapon, and a large and somewhat unpopular segment of society aren't able to be hunters) this is discrimination pure and simple.

Did I note the policy of denying/withdrawing licenses to the "ideologically unsound"? Not specifically, but you did mention the descretionary nature of the licensing process. Now wait a moment, I think I just noticed something. Are you trying to imply something about me here- are you saying I'm "ideologically unsound"?:scrutiny: :neener:

[Mr. James]

Thanks, Microbalrog,

It is, to say the least, unfortunate, Israel has established so many hierarchies of ownership/carrying. Every Jew in Israel should have access to as many, and as effective, armaments as he can swing.

chaim,

Now Israel is a secular Jewish state and not a theocracy ... Allowing a hunter who is breaking Jewish law to own two shotguns, and forbiding ownership of a shotgun (argueably the best home defense weapon) for a religious Jew who doesn't hunt because of the requirements of Halacha is penalizing those who do keep Jewish law and rewarding those who don't!

Without treading into the Theological argument, yikes, your present correspondent is disqualified, a good point, and an important one. As you say, for another forum, but your logic is inescapable.