[TN_shooter]

Why did they stop making them?

[SaxonPig]

Colt suffered from bad management during the 1970s-1990s and had numerous quality control problems. They experienced a labor union strike and had all sorts of problems.

Combine all of this with the declining market for revolvers, the perception of Colt as old and unwilling or unable to modernize (all the new models they introduced after 1973 bombed in the marketplace), and they almost went under.

I think they are still just hanging on by their fingernails and offer virtually no handguns. I think only the 1911 models, maybe some SAAs and maybe the Python from the custom shop.

It's ironic. Used Diamondbacks sell for $1,200+ but Colt can't make them and sell for a profit.

[ArchAngelCD]

Colt is in no way hanging on by their fingernails today. Even though their civilian web site has very little their Military and Police site is full. Their military and police contracts are extensive, but mostly M16's, AR15's and A4 rifles.
Here is their civilian site: http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/home.asp
Here is their M&P site: http://www.colt.com/
You will notice their M&P site uses their name "Colt."

[medmo]

Okay, they might not be holding on barely with their fingernails but not much more than that. The company today is a shadow of what it was forty years ago.

[BigBlock]

Used Diamondbacks sell for $1,200+ but Colt can't make them and sell for a profit.

Then how is it Armsco can build a copy supposedly using Colt's old machinery and sell it for $150 at a profit?

[ugaarguy]

Then how is it Armsco can build a copy supposedly using Colt's old machinery and sell it for $150 at a profit?
Same way they build a 1911 with the same or better features (on the surface) and sell it for less than Kimber, Springfield, and even Taurus - combine MIM internals with manufacturing in the Phillipines (where labor costs are much lower, and government/regulatory oversight is much smaller).

[BigBlock]

And what, colt isn't allowed to do business in the Phillipines? :neener:

[ugaarguy]

And what, colt isn't allowed to do business in the Phillipines?
They truly may not be - there may be long standing contractual obligations with the labor unions forcing them to use union labor in Hartford, CT if these revolvers are produced by Colt or any subsidary.

FN shut down the USRAC Winchester Rifles plant for exactly that reason. They union contract forced them to build 94s & 70s there, and the union labor was too expensive for them to make a profit with what the guns could sell for. So, they shut down the plant & stopped the bleeding.

We'll see Winchester Model 70s & 94s again, they just have to wait until the union contract expires. My educated guesses are 94s made by BC Miroku in Japan, and Model 70s made at the FNMI plant in Columbia, SC.

[Old Fuff]

The competence of Colt's management has been questionable since the end of World War Two. They had an opportunity to buy government owned machinery for a dime-on-the-dollar, and turned it down. Then they cut back their line of handguns while S&W sharply expanded theirs. An agressive Bill Ruger came along and added to their troubles by stealing a lot of their single action revolver business away with a better and more economical product.

Later bean-counter management kept discontinuing models without replacing them with anything new, and when they did most of the new stuff flopped. It wasn't that everything was bad, but rather what they made couldn't compete in the larger market.

Today the handgun part of the company is reduced to being more of a custom shop then a major manufacturer. What's left is truly sad. :(

[CMcDermott]

Properly made the old Colt double-action revolver design (Pythons, Diamond backs, Officer Model Match, New Service, Detective Special etc) requires considerable hand-fitting during manufacture. This makes them very expensive to manufacture in the U.S. The clones made in the Phillipines don't get this hand fitting and aren't properly timed as a result. Colt tried to do re-designs (Trooper MKIII & MKV, SPIV, Anaconda etc) but except for the Anaconda they weren't well accepted in the marketplace. Now Colt only makes 1911's and SAA's, no double-action revolvers at all.

[GunTech]

I doesn't help that Colt has fail to modernize their machi nery, except for their military line. Colt has always been more interested in military contracts than the civilian market.

The Old V spring guns like the Python did require a lot of hand fitting - in part to using machines that were worn out By contrast, S&W has replaced almost all their old machines with modern CNC (The factory floor at S&W looks downright empty). The new S&Ws made via CNC are actually much better fitted than the guns made from 1960s through the 80s (take one apart and look) and for less money.

That's what you get when you put MBAs in charge of a gun company - people who know nothing about guns, nor do they care, but only want to manage share value.

[Troutman]

Does anyone know what the deal was on the J.P.Sauer & Sohn and Colt? This was in the wonder years, 70's. When the Colt Sauer was produced. That was a nice rifle. Rear locking lugs. Smooth action. Great blue finishing. And the stock (the way the grain ran on the one I had) was beauitiful wood on it. Rifle never seen the woods though. Did not want scratches to get on it.

[Hawk]

See also:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=288458

The other thread goes more into the economics of the matter.

I came away with the impression that Colt is a big company and can't really make a profit with a boutique line, even from the custom shop. Further, there simply are no institutional sales of revolvers to LEO groups or the military. Their primary competitor is having a degree of success selling an M&P that feeds from a magazine of all things. This was the cause of some angst among the traditionalists, but the S&W shareholders seem a happy lot.

Just a guess, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that STI sold more tactical 5.0s to the Danish Special Forces than Colt sold Pythons the last 5 years they were making them.

Short version: no money in it.

[ugaarguy]

Hawk, good analysis. Revolver sales have polarized. Medium frame revolvers sit on the shelf for weeks or months without selling. 642s and similar size airweights fly off the shelves. Very large frame guns guns like Super Redhawks and X frames sell at slower but rather steady pace during hunting season. Revolvers must be huge or tiny to sell.

If Colt would have gotten agressive with the D frame they could have done very well. Six shots in the same size & weight package as your competitors' five shot revolvers is a strong selling point.

[medmo]

Hawk said:

"This was the cause of some angst among the traditionalists, but the S&W shareholders seem a happy lot."

I say:

"Why, yes, I'm happy. The shares I bought of S&W last December are up nearly 28% so far this year. The only angst I have is that I should have bought much more then."