[fatelk]

I wasn't sure if this belongs in shotguns or gunsmithing. If someone feels it should be moved, please do so.

I just got a call from a friend of mine who lives a couple hours away. He wanted to know if I would have any idea what could have made his Remington 870 blow up!

He said they had bought some slugs, Remington 3" mags, down at Bi-Mart, and the third or fourth round kicked like a mule, and the last six inches or so of the barrel was peeled back like a banana! I wish I was closer so I could examine it. He said the gun is an older one, without the screw in chokes. The barrel he guesses is about 28", marked "2 3/4 or 3 inch shells", but no indication as to choke.

I asked if they could have plugged the barrel somehow, he said no way; no dirt or indication of a squib load (though I'm not sure he knows what a squib load is). I am guessing the barrel was likely full choke, could that ever cause a barrel rupture with magnum slugs? He said the rest of the gun looked fine. Anything to look for for damage to the receiver? He asked if he could just buy another barrel and salvage the gun.

I've never heard of this with a clean gun in good condition firing factory ammo, but I'm certainly not the authority on shotguns. I told him to take photos, keep the remainder of the box of shells, do not fire them, and call Remington. Hopefully in a day or two he will send me a photo to post.

Any input will be appreciated.

[Whitman31]

I grew up shooting slugs out of full choke bird barrels without problems. I'm guessing something from a previous shot didn't clear the barrel.

[mnrivrat]

Sounds like a barrel obstruction to me as well. Full choke should be no problem ,and the rest of the gun should be OK . Possible wad from previous round ?

Replace barrel and save banana barrel for conversation piece, or cut it back for usage as a cylinder bore .

[Fred Fuller]

His first move should be to contact Remington instantly by phone. And keep the barrel as is and unmolested as it provides the only source of evidence as to what happened. My guess is they may well want to examine it.

It sounds to me as if some part of the payload from a previous round did not clear the barrel, but I can't say. Examination of the barrel by an expert may give some answers as to what happened.

Glad your friend is all right,

lpl/nc

[Dave McCracken]

Classic obstruction damage. Slugs, in modern barrels, do not cause probs with Full chokes. Oft accuracy suffers, but no damage.

Once again, if a shot sounds odd or there's other evidence of an unusual shot, check your barrel before proceeding.

[fatelk]

Sounds like everyone had the same idea, barrel obstruction. I had the same thought right off. I asked him about a possible squib load, but I'll call him again and ask him a little closer about it today. In my mind it just about had to have been an obstruction.

I'll try to get him to send me a photo ASAP, and also call Remington today. If there was some kind of issue with the ammo, they will wnat to know.

mnrivrat- excellent idea about making a cylinder bore barrel out of it, I'll let him know.

[Slimjim]

You can always tell when a wad doesnt make it out of the barrel on a shotgun, When you fire, it makes a sound as if you were to kick a large gourd.

[Blakenzy]

it makes a sound as if you were to kick a large gourd.

I don't know what a large gourd is really, could you be a little more clear? Explain it to me as if I were a five year old....

[DJW]

your friend is lucky the rib did not curl back and stab some part of his anatomy. used to see lots of those 1100's going up years ago.........mostly due to barrel obstruction.

[trueblue1776]

gourd:

The melons that grow by the side of the road that you can't eat.

[rantingredneck]

I don't know what a large gourd is really, could you be a little more clear? Explain it to me as if I were a five year old....

Imagine the hollow sound you hear when you thump a pumpkin. Only a bit louder.

As others have said, sounds like a classic case of barrel obstruction. Either the wad or the slug from the previous shot must have not left the barrel.

[MattB000]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but is a wad in the barrel enough of an obstruction to cause damage?

[rantingredneck]

Yes.

[MattB000]

Yes.

Convincing!

[trueblue1776]

is a wad in the barrel enough of an obstruction to cause damage?

It's location in the barrel would determine how much additional pressure it caused.

I honestly don't think it could cause enough additional pressure to rupture a modern barrel, especially after watching the myth busters try to blow up a gun by plugging the barrel.

The damage to the 870 in the original post surely must have been caused by something more massive than a wad. (maybe a stray 20ga shell? :confused:)

[fatelk]

I just talked to him again on the phone. He said that he and his friend were shooting, it was his buddy's gun but he was shooting it. He has hunted and shot with shotguns since he was a kid. He swears that the previous shot didn't feel or sound any different at all, but that they had several guns they were shooting and it's possible he could have been shooting another gun before it; he doesn't know for sure.

I told him he really should call Remington. Even if it turns out to be shooter error (maybe his buddy leaned on it muzzle-down in the dirt when he wasn't looking- who knows?) they might still want to know since it was a Remington gun with Remington ammo.

[redactor]

I second the notion of the stray 20 gauge shell. If he accidentally fired a 20 gauge shell in a 12 gauge, the 20 shell may have traveled down the bore and become lodged. If you didn't notice that you didn't eject a hull before firing the next shot, KBM!

[rodregier]

Firing a 12ga behind a 20ga shell as an unintentional obstruction is a classic.

Was warned about just that issue in a Hunter Safety course.

Ask him if any of the other guns were non-12ga.
That increases the chance of mixed ammunition.

Best prevention is to avoid mixed ammunition usage in a session.

[jmr40]

It is possible the barrel was defective. Several years ago Remington had a run of defective barrels. Very few if any problems surfaced but a class action lawsuit was filed against Remington. Remington settled out of court and claimed their barrels were safe. As a result of the suit Remington shotgun owners claimed that the value of their guns was diminished. Anyone owning a Remington shotgun at that time could send the serial number to Remington and would recieve a check from Remington for $20 to $40 depending on the model. This has been 10 or more years ago so I may be a little fuzzy about my facts but I got a check for $80 if I remember correctly

[DJW]

JMR is correct........it was 1100 barrels and it was closer to 15 yrs. ago.
IF a 20 ga. shell was inadvertently dropped into the breech the resulting explosion would have damaged the barrel at the chamber, not the last 6 inches or so at the muzzle end.

[rantingredneck]

Yeah but if the 20ga empty hull slid down the barrel and caused an obstruction for the next 12 ga round fired then it could have caused the KB.

A wad is probably not the most likely cause of a KB but it's hard to predict how any obstruction can affect the gun.

About that Mythbusters episode.....anyone ever wonder why that barrel sheared off cleanly right below the obstruction when they finally decided to weld it in place? I have a theory. One word, starts with A.....

[jmr40]

It was not just 1100's involved in the lawsuit. At the time I owned 2 or 3 870's and an 11-87. Not all of them qualified to get money. Like I said earlier it has been at least 10 years ago, but after thinking about this for a while I think it involved the first run of "light contour" Remington barrels. I'm not saying that I believe a defective barrel caused this, just that it is a possibility if the barrel was made during this time. Remington never admitted fault and claimed that the barrels that blew up were because of obstructions or defective ammo. They did change the steel in their barrels and pay out however.

[DJW]

Correct, JMR. It was said at the time that the barrels had developed "stress cracks" due to carbon inclusions in the steel as I recall.

[Steve C]

I've seen a shotgun barrel pealed back from just a blade of grass getting into it when the owner was a little careless with his muzzle walking through some tall grass. It doesn't take much.

[Geno]

Sounds like what happened to my Kimber Eclipse. Becuase the ammo was defective (too small of primer hole as determined by Winchester) the projectile was slowly pushed into the barrel by a slow burn, then when the full ignition occured, the barrel exploded.

If it can happen in a pistol, why not a rifle or shotgun.

My experience prompted the Winchester recall on Win .45 ACP Per Def. ammo 2 years ago (so their letter stated). In exchange for my trouble, I received a free case (500 rounds of the ammo). It's been great.

[Lucky]

ranting, I can't guess. what's it rhyme with

[Killian]

Malicious Elves.

[rantingredneck]

When they welded that plug into the end of the barrel I'm sure the barrel got hotter than it ever would have from shooting it. When you heat tool grade steel to temperatures like that and allow it to cool slowly you are basically annealing it. I imagine that the way the barrel sheared off so cleanly directly below that plug had to do with the steel being softer right at that point. Softest point, pressure breaks through, clean shear, no big kaboom. I imagine had the barrel not been annealed like it was that the gun would have held the pressure just a millisecond or two longer allowing it to KB more forcefully.

Again. Just a theory.

[kellyj00]

rantingredneck: this isn't a place for scientific analysis! ;-)

If it were me I'd say "wow!" count my fingers and toes and say "that was cool!" then I'd get the barrel mounted, and just say it was probably a barrel obstruction or Elmer Fudd got a hold of my shotgun. Who knows.

Cool story...I know I enjoyed it online. I would definitely enjoy it more in person with the appropriate visual aids and a few beers. Shucks, I wish I had a banana-peeled shotgun barrel! That's cheap wall art at $200 for a replacement.

[Shell Shucker]

Remington has not produced fixed choke barrels for over 20 years....... I bet it is "out of warranty". My vote goes to "barrel obstruction". I'm glad no one was hurt.

[Whitman31]

It doesn't take much, had an uncle once that got some snow in the barrel while pheasant hunting, didn't know it. The barrel didn't peel back like a banana, but it did bulge quite a bit, I'd say just shy of doubling it's diameter.

[RecoilRob]

Wondering about the specific Remington Slugs involved here. Were they sabot?

Had a co-worker blow the end off his trusty 870 full choke using sabot copper slugs. Seems they don't work well in non-rifled barrels like the old lead Foster type do.

If they were anything but the plain lead rifled slug, it is most likely that the choke was fouled with plastic and finally provided more restriction than the barrel could hold.

And, I know many, many people shoot slugs from full choked guns....but if you look into it this practice is NOT really recommended. I use only IC or Cylinder bore with slugs. Call me a wimp.....