The Delicate Garand


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Jim Watson
August 16, 2007, 08:55 AM
In my youth - when the DCM would sell you one M1 in a lifetime, with an oath to not resell it - we were warned by NRA not to reload for the Garand with 4350 or 4350 Data (surplus 4831) powder because high port pressure from slower burning powder could bend the operating rod.

When Light Magnum ammunition came out, we were warned by Hornady not to shoot it in the Garand (or any autoloader) because its highly progressive powder would generate excess port pressure, etc.

Now we are warned by Internet Experts not to shoot ANY commercial ammunition in the Garand because "you don't know what powder they use."
While I have trouble imagining an ammo company using 10% more of a slow powder to generate the same standard velocity as they could get with 10% less of a medium powder, I guess there is the risk of them getting a deal on such slow powder.

So I am asking, has anyone actually seen a Garand operating rod bent by use of name brand standard load commercial .30-06 ammunition with 150 - 180 grain bullets?

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robert garner
August 16, 2007, 09:12 AM
and got my Garand nobody tole me that it was weak.
I loaded 180 grainers to near max from my manual.
Never a problem, and none now. It is still 100%
how can you tell if it is bent,
BTW it only fires mil-surp now,only because it's my choice.
robert

foghornl
August 16, 2007, 09:38 AM
has anyone actually seen a Garand operating rod bent by use of name brand standard load commercial .30-06 ammunition with 150 - 180 grain bullets?


Yeah....My Garand. 180-Gr Rem.

Only Commercial ammo I know that's safe is the Federal "Gold Medal Match" 168-Gr HP stuff.

BigG
August 16, 2007, 09:50 AM
We fired quite a few boxes of commercial Rem and Winchester ammo through Garands back in the day before cheap ammo was available without incident.

Onmilo
August 16, 2007, 10:37 AM
Yeah.
I still shoot commercial loads of 150 to 165 grain in my Garands on those occasions when I hunt with one but I guess I should know better.

Of course I don't buy ammo that states 'Light Magnum' or 'Super power-guaranteed to cause problems.' on the box either.

One of my favorites does say 150 grain Super X Power Point though.

Freightman
August 16, 2007, 10:58 AM
Let see IMR 4895 45-48g 2800/2900 fps 2800+- FPE weak do not think so just don't shoot the hot commercial from it it is 60+ years old. I am 60+ years old I am carefull what I do am I weak? ask my son's!

BsChoy
August 16, 2007, 11:21 AM
The muzzle velocity of the Garand with M2 ball was (correct me if I am wrong) about 2700-2800 fps. Thats a 150-152 grain bullet. Look at a reloading manual compared to the online ballistics of the available stuff on the market and they are close to 2950-3000 fps with that wieght. This means they had to use a good dose of medium to slow powder. Its too much pressure and I love my Garand too much to push it. Right now a 150 SST crimped in the cannelure with a Lee FCD and 47.0 of IMR 4064 is doing 1.5-2.0 groups at 100 and I have no issue with that at all.

strat81
August 16, 2007, 12:00 PM
Why risk it? It'd be like shooting .38 +P out of a vintage model 10 or +P+ out of an older Luger. It might work, but it might not. But you risk ruining a piece of history.

Bartholomew Roberts
August 16, 2007, 12:00 PM
I forget the ammo number; but the Federal Premium Hunting .30-06 ammo loaded with the 150gr Nosler Ballistic Tip is good to go in the Garand.

LubeckTech
August 16, 2007, 12:06 PM
Does anyone shoot 125gr handloads with IMR 4895? I'm new to rifle reloading and looking for Garand safe loads with this powder and 125 & 150 Sierra bullets.

mavracer
August 16, 2007, 12:13 PM
get an adjustable gas plug like this , http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=777146&t=11082005
then shoot what you like.

GarandOwner
August 16, 2007, 12:35 PM
I have shot commercial ammo out of my garand for years. I think I remember many moons ago hearing that anything under 170 grain commercial is "safe" for a garand.

I have used Remington UMC, Federal American Eagle (My garand LOVES PMC).....but due to increase in ammo price, it is back to surplus ammo.

My question is: Does anyone get significant performance out of commercial over mil surplus? Korean groups 1" bigger for me than commercial, but Lake City has always been just as good as commercial or better (Depending on how I shoot that day :neener:)

redneckdan
August 16, 2007, 12:50 PM
Its not chamber pressure that hurts a garand. I heard that somebody loaded a crazy ass load of red dot and torture tested the garand action, the action took it sayin "please sir may I have another".

The problem comes from port pressure, the gas pressure in the barrel when the bullet uncovers the gas cylinder port. By using magnum (slower burning) powders the pressure curve changes and you can end up with too high of pressure at the gas port. You can load with slow powders, one of my favorite loads was duplexing unique under WC 860. The key is to load up until you get reliable action cycling and go no further. A bent op-rod will cause cause the action to operate improperly.

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