Why are some surplus guns so inexpensive?


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Anna's Dad
August 16, 2007, 07:21 PM
Why are guns like the CZ-52 and the Nagant revolver so unbelievably inexpensive. There are many other surplus guns out there that are far more expensive and even considered collectible.

Is it because of the unusual caliber? Are there just that many of them available? Are they just not great quality? Just curious.

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john1911
August 16, 2007, 07:58 PM
Most of the time it's based on availability.

Sistema1927
August 16, 2007, 08:00 PM
Two words:

Supply

Demand

tkendrick
August 16, 2007, 08:18 PM
Supply and Demand, my friend, Supply & Demand.

Lots of them available. That's the supply side.

Truly unpopular calibers. I personally like the CZ and its cartridge a lot, the Tokarev round is especially impressive, but even though I've been reloading for over thirty years, I'll probably get rid of the gun once the supply of cheap surplus ammo dries up. The Nagant round is truly a weird duck, and although the gun can be converted , or the ammo reproduced, most people are simply not going to go to the trouble or expense for that particular gun.

I don't think the quality is the issue, both are fairly well made guns, especially considering the time and place they were made. But you have to be peculiar beast, like me, to want one.

Compare that to the P-38's that were sold as surplus a few years back. Older design than the CZ, but a lot more familiar to most, especially my generation who remember them from WW2, and in 9mm to boot. They went like hot cakes.

I can still pick one or more versions of the Mosin-Nagant rifles here in Phoenix for well under a hundred dollars. The chain that sells them says sales are down, and they don't know why.

Could it be (just guessing, here) that I usta could buy a hundred rounds for less than ten bucks, and I now pay that much for twenty rounds of the same ammo? (But gee, it now comes in a pretty cardboard box.)

The real surprise to me in all this is that I can still pick up a 98 mauser pretty cheap. But I suspect that won't last much longer, as I here the supply is drying up.

CWL
August 16, 2007, 08:26 PM
Supply and demand. Capitalism at its finest.

Simply put, if people would line up and pay $1000 for a Makarov pistol, then some gun dealer will sell it for that much. People don't, so they went out the door in the low $200 range (back when I was shopping for 'em).

People WILL line up for surplus H&K P7/PSPs for $600-700 each, so that's what it'll cost you.

trueblue1776
August 16, 2007, 08:46 PM
Surplus:
1. something that remains above what is used or needed.
2. an amount, quantity, etc., greater than needed.


By definition surplus is unwanted. ;)

Cannonball888
August 16, 2007, 09:02 PM
Not to mention the value of the dollar in former Soviet and Warsaw Pact countries. These guns are being imported cheap.

tinygnat219
August 16, 2007, 10:21 PM
Supply, demand and ammo availability.

PTK
August 16, 2007, 10:43 PM
To me it seems that in the past few months Vz-52s and Nagant revolvers have skyrocketed in price. I remember Vz-52s going for $75, now they're $175. Nagant revolvers in this area are now $125 each, when I recall them being $75 not long ago.

TimboKhan
August 17, 2007, 02:24 AM
I remember Vz-52s going for $75, now they're $175. Nagant revolvers in this area are now $125 each, when I recall them being $75 not long ago.

Well, not to beat a dead horse, but here again it is an issue of supply and demand. The supply is dwindling, and so a higher price can be charged. Thats the thing about surplus that some people tend to forget: It's surplus, not newly manufactured. There is a finite number of MN revolvers in this country, and when they are gone, they are gone.

New_geezer
August 17, 2007, 12:07 PM
Consider too, the Mosin-Nagant rifles, the SKS are usually not historically that innovative in design (compared to say a P-38, or AK47), tho ruggedly made, they are largely out of date as modern military weapons, many cash strapped countries have a ton of them stockpiled and no real use for them. Originally their ammo was hard to find in the West but in making them cheap and popular these countries now have an ongoing industry making those calibers available.

Anna's Dad
August 17, 2007, 12:57 PM
That was my suspicion but really have no idea of the quantity of them that have been imported into the USA. They seem like solid little guns to me so I was just curious.

I'm considering selling off some guns to raise money for new acquisitions and I happen to own a few of these less expensive, surplus guns.

I'll probably sell them and end up kicking myself in 5 years when they've quadrupled in value!

Technosavant
August 17, 2007, 02:01 PM
One secondary consideration: These guns have already been purchased once before. You aren't paying for manufacture and design work at today's rates (you're not even getting a warranty), you're just paying for a used gun.

Combine that with less popular calibers and supply/demand, and you see the low prices. Surplus guns that shoot popular calibers (9x19, .45ACP) are much more expensive (but then again, you can also make a case that the supply of such guns is much smaller too).

aaronrkelly
August 18, 2007, 04:57 PM
At one time Garands where plentiful and cheap.....as where surplus 1911s.

The supply dwindled, prices went up.

The same thing WILL happen to CZ52 and Nagant revolvers, give it some time. It might take 10 years....or more....but it WILL happen.

Take Yugo SKSs for instance. Last year I bought 3 of them for $90 each. The same SKSs now go for $150.......1 year, the price almost doubles.

Thats why I buy ANY cheap surplus guns I can....atleast one of each. They wont stay cheap forever.

CajunBass
August 18, 2007, 07:12 PM
Because a lot of the people selling them originally need hard cash. They looked around and said "What do we have to sell that someone will buy?" Not much really, except we do have a bunch of old guns we don't need anymore."

Think of it as a giant yard sale.

PX15
August 18, 2007, 07:38 PM
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_4825.jpg

Here's my $135.00 (more or less) Star BM.... Neat surplus 9mm pistol..

Sweet shooter, surprisingly accurate..

J. Pomeroy

orionengnr
August 18, 2007, 07:44 PM
The same thing WILL happen to CZ52 and Nagant revolvers, give it some time. It might take 10 years....or more....but it WILL happen.

Take Yugo SKSs for instance. Last year I bought 3 of them for $90 each. The same SKSs now go for $150.......1 year, the price almost doubles.

Respectfully disagree with this hypothesis. If an unlimited supply of cheap ammo were available, the demand for that surplus rifle/pistol would continue until a) everybody had one or more and demand was zero (prices stabilized at a low point) or b) the surplus rifles/pistols dried up but unlimited cheap ammo abounded, making said surplus weapon desirable (prices would increase).

The SKS is a case in point. While x39 ammo was cheap, AKs and SKSs were seen as bargains--I remember seing SKSs for $69 just a few years ago. Prices rose accordingly.

Now that x39 ammo is through the roof, want to buy an AK or SKS at today's asking prices? I don't, and don't see that changing anytime soon...

aaronrkelly
August 18, 2007, 08:01 PM
Yugos ARE drying up.....importers are hitting dry spells and only finding small odd lots.

jefnvk
August 18, 2007, 08:19 PM
Nice gun, PX, I got its brother. Haven't seen them so cheap in a while though, is there anyone that still has them?

I can remember a time when I walked into as gunshow and there were tables of Swede Mausers for $70 each. Word got out about how nice they were, and now youre lucky to find them in the $200 range.

Ditchtiger
August 18, 2007, 09:10 PM
Maybe our Mosins be worth $500 in another year or so. ha ha ha

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