Felon and C&O and Black Powder


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Big Daddy K
August 17, 2007, 09:44 AM
Just curious.
Can a felon own or posses etc a C&R or black powder weapon?

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MD_Willington
August 17, 2007, 09:55 AM
BP guns are not considered modern firearms... yet.

Felons usually lose their rights to posses modern firearms.

SlamFire1
August 17, 2007, 09:57 AM
Gordon Liddy fielded this question oncd on his show. If you recall, Mr. Liddy is a Felon. Mr. Liddy claimed he did not own a weapon, but Mrs Liddy sure owned a bunch.

Sounds like the Woman we should be looking to marry.

A C&R is a firearm. Felons cannot own firearms.

Black Powder guns are not considered firearms.

I suppose a Colt Dragoon is better than a pointy stick. At least for the first six shots.

strat81
August 17, 2007, 09:58 AM
Felons cannot possess C&R as they are still considered firearms. As for BP, you might run into some trouble there. Regardless of what the ATF says, I view a muzzleloader as a gun and I bet a judge would see it that way too.

Gordon
August 17, 2007, 10:10 AM
A felon cannot posses a loaded or capped BP gun in Ca.

Domino
August 17, 2007, 12:28 PM
I'm not sure I've ever really understood the whole "felon's cannot own firearms thing." It seems to me that violent felons shouldn't be released in the first place. Ideally, anyone else who has done their full time should become a citizen again with all thier rights in place. Afterall, they served their time. Thats crime and punishment.

GigaBuist
August 17, 2007, 12:51 PM
I was in a gun shop while the owner fielded such a question over the phone. Dude looking to hunt, couldn't buy a gun because he was a felon.

Owner explained that BP guns are fine, but they can't be readily modified to accept a cartridge. I think it was a Thompson Contender or something along the lines that the guy was looking to buy. Whatever it was, with a new barrel it could have fired cartridges, so he couldn't sell it to him.

Dave Markowitz
August 17, 2007, 02:01 PM
C&Rs clearly cannot be possessed by felons.

Federal law is generally held to not bar a felon from owning a BP weapon which does not fire self-contained ammunition. However, there is at least one Federal case to the contrary.

In U.S. v. Green, 515 F.Supp. 517 (D.Md. 1981) the court refused to grant the defendant's motion to dismiss an indictment for being a felon in
possession of a firearm, based on its interpretation that the replica is indeed a "firearm" and a "handgun" that he was prohibited from possessing. This was in spite of the BATF's opinion that the replica was not a "firearm" that the defendant would be prohibited from possessing. The gun in question was a replica of an 1858 Remington cap and ball revolver.

Please note that I have not Shepherdized Green recently to verify it's still good law. However, ASSuming that it is, felons in MD would be prohibited from possessing BP arms.

erict
August 17, 2007, 02:20 PM
In TN a felon can possess a BP gun. They don't even keep them in firearm cases. Yoiu can take one right off the shelf, take it to the counter, and purchase it like any other merchandise.

W.E.G.
August 17, 2007, 08:15 PM
Do not confuse what is considered a "firearm" for the purpose of taxation and dealer licensing with what is considered a firearm for the pupose of prohibition.

For the purpose of prohibition, a "firearm" is generally defined as any object capable of firing a projectile from explosive force.
e.g. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-433.1

There goes the "felons can own black powder guns" theory.

Float Pilot
August 17, 2007, 10:27 PM
Here in Alaska I ran across (back when I was law dawging) more than a few previously convicted felons who had their firearms rights restored. I am not sure how they did it...
It should also be noting that when I charged a couple of multi conviction felons with multiple firearms possession and use cases,,"One previously convicted murderer who California released early, beat a guy with an illegally converted Chinese AK) , the BATF totally screwed up the cases and the criminals ran off to commit more crimes elsewhere...and they did...

The Deer Hunter
August 17, 2007, 10:31 PM
Black Powder guns are not considered firearms.

I think I read on a the BATFE site or somewhere else, but what a felon could own was- "a black powder gun, made before 1858(?) or a reproduction of a gun before that time.

May not be correct, but there was some date regulation.

GunTech
August 17, 2007, 11:58 PM
By Federal law, a gun which does not fire fixed ammunition like a BP is not a gun. In that case, state law takes precidence.

As an aside, Federal law noe mirrors stae law with reguard to firearms prohibitions. If the state returns a felons gun rights, he's no longer a prohibited person. Not that it is the state in which the felon was convicted, not the state in which he resides that matter RE federal prohibition.

This is from memory, so consult your lawyer.

Logan5
August 18, 2007, 01:39 AM
I hate to say it, but these kind of regulations are mostly and irrelevant body of law. First of all, it has to come to the attention of law enforcement, and then a prosecutor will typically charge the most serious offense the facts of the case will support. So, the hypothetical felon who shoots someone is probably going to be charged with murder 2, regardless of whether the victim was hit with a micro UZI, an 1849 pocket repro, or a framing hammer.
At one point in the 90's, I was involved in a case where the bad guy did some shooting with a particular firearm that was subject to both state and federal AW bans, and hit someone. I wanted to tack those charges on. Didn't happen. Guy got 42 years for straight attempted murder, and none of the enhancements for using his stolen out of state Uzi carbine. It's a pet peeve of mine.

stolivar
August 18, 2007, 12:58 PM
In Missouri a felon can own a BP rifle or shotgun. He can not own a BP pistol...

In some states BP is considered a firearm..... Each state differs.



steve:what:

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