Garand parts and mix-masters


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strat81
August 17, 2007, 03:25 PM
As we know, most M1 Garands are “mix-masters” meaning they are made from a variety of parts from different manufacturers. Few Garands are correct in this regard and those that are in such condition are priced accordingly high.

For those of us with mix-masters, is it worth it for them to locate parts to make their rifles more “correct”? That is, if you have a Springfield receiver, is it worth it to find a bolt, op rod, barrel, etc all from Springfield? Would this raise the value of the rifle at all? I’m guessing not, or else we’d see garandpartstrader.com or something. Thoughts?

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Chipperman
August 17, 2007, 05:09 PM
If you find an M1 with all matching parts, how do you know it came from the factory that way? YOU DON'T. I would not pay more for all matching in an M1. I would pay for overall condition of the rifle and its collective parts.

Luger collectors are confronted with this same type dilemma.

You can find Luger parts listed on auction sites with the serial numbers. What are the chances that the part you buy with a matching number really came from your gun? Infinitesimally small. Yet people do it to try to make an "all matching Luger". It's even a bigger problem with them than the M1, because the Lugers were hand-fitted. So you could buy a Luger that has all the same numbers, and does not run reliably.

DawgFvr
August 17, 2007, 05:18 PM
I'm not a collector. I want...and have...a shooter...and oh, how sweet it is.

GarandOwner
August 17, 2007, 05:20 PM
Matching numbers means that the Rifle has all the parts with markings that are "correct" for the time it was made. Yes finding these parts and putting them in your rifle would make the rifle more valuable, but depending on how good a deal you get on the parts (I recomend selling the parts you switch out to cover this cost) it might end up costing you just as much or more as buying a gun that is allready "all matching"

30Cal
August 17, 2007, 05:34 PM
There's not a lot of point in restoring a rifle if it's been refinished. Interesting to you, maybe, but not to most buyers. Plus, most guys just buy "correct" parts without regard to finish and wear--so the rifle ends up with a sprinkling of new here, old there, zinc park, manganese park, greek purple park... It may be "correct", but it still looks like and IS a mixmaster.

Ty

alamo
August 17, 2007, 07:05 PM
Since the "correct" parts for an "all matching" M1 are not necessarily the original parts (and would be extremely rare if they were) it just seems silly to me to waste money tracking down the "correct" parts to make one. It's still a mixmaster in a way.

To do that with a Luger is crazy and a fraud if you're trying to sell it as "all matching".

akolleth
August 17, 2007, 08:51 PM
Not worth it unless you have a very rare receiver and the original barrel.

Here is my mixmaster, a 1.2 million Springfield I picked up from CMP as a woodless Danish return

Danish Barrel, Springfield receiver, mismatched Springfield/Italian internals, Italian Op rod, hand guards from 2x different USGI rifles, and a stock from Korea. Would I try to "fix her up" Hell no.

http://home.earthlink.net/~akolleth/garand.jpg

Swampy
August 18, 2007, 07:20 AM
strat,

AS already stated.... there's a LOT more to making an M1 "Correct" than just putting on all SA parts, or all of any other maker. You also have to match the Drawing and revision number to the time frame that the receiver was made, as well as wear pattern, finish type, etc....

Generally, you will spend more money buying "Correct" parts for an M1, ESPECIALLY if it is a WWII model, than it will be worth after you get finished with the restoration.

Just my 2 bits,
Swampy

Garands forever

GarandOwner
August 20, 2007, 12:56 AM
It is a personal preference, but for a collector, an "all correct" gun is a great thing, those that it isnt important to see it as a waste of money, but when it comes down to it, it does increase the value of your rifle, it IS fun to track down parts, and you feel a sence of acomplishment when it is completed......at least I do :neener:

Trebor
August 20, 2007, 01:31 AM
Collectors will pay more for a "correct as manufactured" rifle.

The problem is that so many Garands have parts from so many different manufacturers and revision numbers that usually restoring a rifle to "correct - as manufactured" condition is more effort than it is worth. You'll pay more for the "correct" parts individually then you'll get from the sale of the complete rifle.

The only time it's really worth while is when the rifle is *nearly* correct in the first place and only needs a couple of parts to be correct. Sometimes you'll run across a Garand from the CMP where all the "top end" parts are correct and all you need is a correct trigger group and stock to make an "all correct" rifle. I have a IHC like that. I later bought the correct trigger group and I'm still looking for the correct stock. (IHC stocks are notoriously hard to find, btw).

trbon8r
August 20, 2007, 02:04 AM
As far as I'm concerned a Garand put together by the U.S. Army from a stack of parts during the rebuild process and sold through CMP is more "correct" than any Garand put together by the Scott Duff crowd that obsesses over which dash whatever part is the most correct.

Onmilo
August 20, 2007, 09:44 AM
I agree.
I have always felt that folks building 'all correct' rifles will use parts of questionable serviceability to make the rifle 'all correct' and then jack the price up 300% for a rifle that may, or may not be, safe to fire in the 'all correct' state.

A rebuilt CMP rifle, even the ones that come back from Lend-Lease, are more USGI than some overpriced 'all correct' safe queen in my opinion too.

trbon8r
August 21, 2007, 07:01 PM
I agree.
I have always felt that folks building 'all correct' rifles will use parts of questionable serviceability to make the rifle 'all correct' and then jack the price up 300% for a rifle that may, or may not be, safe to fire in the 'all correct' state.

A rebuilt CMP rifle, even the ones that come back from Lend-Lease, are more USGI than some overpriced 'all correct' safe queen in my opinion too.

I agree 1000%!

Jeremy2171
August 22, 2007, 03:01 AM
What you say may have a "little" truth to it but some rifles speak for themselves and you can tell whether they are "put togethers" or "original".

So how do you feel about the current service grades from CMP which use refinished barreled recievers (from the late 60s/early 70s) and the excess parts stripped from unservicable rifles? In comparison these particular rifles could be compared to something a company like Century Arms would "put together" and sell to the market because of demand.

Chipperman
August 23, 2007, 10:51 PM
I would trust a rifle put together from CMP long before one put together by the monkeys at Century.

Onmilo
August 23, 2007, 11:08 PM
The CMP rifles are assembled using some components from stripped unservicable rifles.
CMP also uses brand new and like new parts to assemble these rifles and they have original guages to check all the parts for servicability before assembly.

Century Arms rifles assembled off Stripped Danish-used M1 Garands featured non-military non USGI investment cast receivers of which many were out of specification and tolerance.
Century assemblers ground and crush fit parts in order to assemble rifles.
I am unaware that any USGI servicability guages were used during the assembly of the rifles.
There were some very good and very servicable parts used in the assembly of the Century rifles and some borderline but very collectable parts too.
I have seen an uncut operating rod from one of these rifles that had been shortened and the gas piston crudely rebrazed onto the operating rod.
This little alteration effectively killed the collectability of the part and also made it unuseable in any other rifle.

CMP facilities are located in a US Military Depot.
Century Arms Assembly shop is not.
There is the big difference in the comparison.

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