"Deer hunting may put men's hearts at risk"


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ReadyontheRight
August 17, 2007, 11:54 PM
Wow.

Good thing we are funding "research".

Personally, I'd rather kick off hunting than be strung out on some drug treatment or machine in a hospital.

But there's never a "Busybody, Federally-funded, Scientists Put Human Dignity at Risk." article in any news story.

Read on and weep for our tax money...

Deer hunting may put men's hearts at risk Fri Aug 17, 2:27 PM ET

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Deer hunting could be a dangerous endeavor for men with heart disease or risk factors for it, research findings suggest.

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In a study of 25 middle-aged male deer hunters, researchers found that the activities inherent to hunting -- like walking over rough terrain, shooting an animal and dragging its carcass -- sent the men's heart rates up significantly.

In some cases, this led to potentially dangerous heart-rhythm disturbances, or diminished oxygen supply to the heart.

Of the 25 hunters, 17 had established coronary heart disease, while the rest had risk factors such as being overweight, smoking or having high blood pressure or cholesterol.

The findings suggest that for men like these, hunting could boost the risk of heart attack or cardiac arrest.

Susan Haapaniemi and colleagues at William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oaks, Michigan, report the findings in the American Journal of Cardiology.

For the study, the researchers outfitted each man with a portable monitor that continuously recorded his heart's electrical activity during a day of deer hunting. For comparison, the men also had their hearts monitored as they exercised on a treadmill on a separate day.

In general, the researchers found, deer hunting put the men's hearts under more strain than the treadmill did. Ten men exceeded the maximum heart rate they logged on the treadmill, and several showed potentially dangerous heart responses to hunting that they did not show during the treadmill test.

Three men had signs of impeded blood flow to the heart during hunting, but not on the treadmill. Similarly, three of the men with heart disease had heart-rhythm abnormalities while hunting that did not show up on the treadmill test.

The combination of physical exertion, adrenaline rush and the stress of rough terrain and cold weather may explain the "excessive cardiac demands" seen with hunting, according to Haapaniemi's team.

What's more, they point out, most of the men in the study were taking part in an exercise program to treat their heart disease, or were regularly physically active. Hunting could be an even greater strain on the heart in men who are usually sedentary, the researchers note.

SOURCE: American Journal of Cardiology, July 15, 2007.

My Solution: MAYBE WE ALL NEED TO HUNT MORE OFTEN!

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justice4all
August 18, 2007, 12:08 AM
How many men are in better shape than they would otherwise be because they prepare themselves for hunting seasons? I cannot be the only one.

Charles S
August 18, 2007, 12:18 AM
How many men are in better shape than they would otherwise be because they prepare themselves for hunting seasons? I cannot be the only one.

Nope...you are not. I am walking and exercising regularly now to get ready!

Bartkowski
August 18, 2007, 01:35 AM
How many men are in better shape than they would otherwise be because they prepare themselves for hunting seasons? I cannot be the only one.

My cousin walks two miles down a road to his house and two miles back everyday carrying a pipe the same weight as his rifle to get in shape for the annual elk hunt he goes on.

n general, the researchers found, deer hunting put the men's hearts under more strain than the treadmill did.
heart in men who are usually sedentary,
Basically all that article says to me is that hunting is like heavy excersizing, so be in shape when hunting.

Double Naught Spy
August 18, 2007, 08:20 AM
Yes, deer hunting can do this. Strangely, it was determined that vacationing did the same thing for many folks who tended to have heart attacks during the first few days of vacation for the same sorts of reasons, the heavy exercise that came with some types of vacations, everything ranging from carrying heavy luggage, hiking, etc.

The notion that deer hunting puts people at risk is rather lame in this regard. It isn't the hunting at all. So in that manner, the article is misleading. They are sensationalizing things a bit.

MCgunner
August 18, 2007, 09:50 AM
Lessee, which would I rather be doing, draggin' a nice buck out of the woods or running on a friggin' treadmill.:rolleyes: Gimme a break! Is this the result of too much activity for middle aged men or too many big macs???? :rolleyes: Lets do a study of middle aged men playing flag football or softball or basketball! Heck, in my case, how about a 54 year old man risking health and safety road racing a motorcycle? I mean, what's the point? Are we all supposed to sit around and watch TV once we're past 25? If so, I'll bet the rate of heart illness goes WAY up! While most men are sitting at home eating cheatos and drinking beer watching the superbowl (hey, nothing against beer:D), I will usually be found in the marsh or in the stand. I just don't care for stick and ball sports. But, hey, if we keep going down this path of letting the government tell us what we should do for activities, if we let big brother tell us what to do, how long do you think it'll take before the Central Safety Bureau (or some such Orwellian bureau) decides that football is dangerous and promotes violence? :banghead:

It's not just the government funded researchers, but the idiot journalists who decide such crap is news. I think reporters who write such drivel should be dragged outdoors by the hair, tied to a post and flogged until unconscious. :mad: And, while on the subject of STUPID journalism, check out this article... http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/18902.html


"Half the nation's families earn below the median family income of about $56,000."

No kidding. How else do you define median?:rolleyes::banghead: A statistician would say, if the median is close to the mean, that's a good thing. Shows a good data set.

Art Eatman
August 18, 2007, 09:55 AM
Middle-aged lowland office worker goes to high country for mule deer or elk, and overdoes: Recipe for disaster. Of course, this has only been known for a century or thereabouts, so it's logical that some academic gets a grant and studies the problem.

If we're not careful, though, the secret will come out as to why we take the kids hunting.

They're there to do the heavy lifting.

Art

MCgunner
August 18, 2007, 09:59 AM
I hope they don't decide to do a duck hunter's study, trodding through the mud and salt grass in waders totin' a big bag of decoys, shotgun, perhaps a marsh chair, for hundreds of yards to get to the pothole before shooting time to set up. Sanding knee deep in frigid water for a few hours, while you fire a dangerous weapon multiple times into the air. Then, pick up everything and trudge out. There simply can't be anything healthy about that!

koja48
August 18, 2007, 10:06 AM
I'm applying for a grant . . . THAT ought to defray expenses a mite!

carlrodd
August 18, 2007, 11:37 AM
Notice the title of the article. it would lead you to believe that any man might put his heart at risk when hunting. read on, and notice that the study group consisted of 25(wow, huge study) apparently carefully selected men who already had heart disease or symptoms of it. email Susan Haapaniemi and colleagues at William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oaks, Michigan and let her know that NO hunter, healthy or otherwise, appreciates see-through hit pieces, based on amateurish research. the kicker....your tax dollars probably helped to fund this pointless study.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070817/hl_nm/deer_risk_dc

Deer hunting may put men's hearts at risk

Fri Aug 17, 2:27 PM ET

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Deer hunting could be a dangerous endeavor for men with heart disease or risk factors for it, research findings suggest.

In a study of 25 middle-aged male deer hunters, researchers found that the activities inherent to hunting -- like walking over rough terrain, shooting an animal and dragging its carcass -- sent the men's heart rates up significantly.

In some cases, this led to potentially dangerous heart-rhythm disturbances, or diminished oxygen supply to the heart.

Of the 25 hunters, 17 had established coronary heart disease, while the rest had risk factors such as being overweight, smoking or having high blood pressure or cholesterol.

The findings suggest that for men like these, hunting could boost the risk of heart attack or cardiac arrest.

Susan Haapaniemi and colleagues at William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oaks, Michigan, report the findings in the American Journal of Cardiology.

For the study, the researchers outfitted each man with a portable monitor that continuously recorded his heart's electrical activity during a day of deer hunting. For comparison, the men also had their hearts monitored as they exercised on a treadmill on a separate day.

In general, the researchers found, deer hunting put the men's hearts under more strain than the treadmill did. Ten men exceeded the maximum heart rate they logged on the treadmill, and several showed potentially dangerous heart responses to hunting that they did not show during the treadmill test.

Three men had signs of impeded blood flow to the heart during hunting, but not on the treadmill. Similarly, three of the men with heart disease had heart-rhythm abnormalities while hunting that did not show up on the treadmill test.

The combination of physical exertion, adrenaline rush and the stress of rough terrain and cold weather may explain the "excessive cardiac demands" seen with hunting, according to Haapaniemi's team.

What's more, they point out, most of the men in the study were taking part in an exercise program to treat their heart disease, or were regularly physically active. Hunting could be an even greater strain on the heart in men who are usually sedentary, the researchers note.

SOURCE: American Journal of Cardiology, July 15, 2007.

learningman
August 18, 2007, 12:12 PM
I had an experence with this this past hunting season. I was asked to go on an elk depredation hunt in the Missouri Breaks last year. The man who asked me is a big man. He is around 450 lbs and for lack of a kinder why to put it is fat. We shot two elk and thats when the work began. I'm not sure if anyone here knows the breaks very well but I had some Alaskan sheep guides tell me last year that it was the hardest hunt they have been on. The terrian can be nasty. Anyway the gentlman I was with I swear nearly died on me. I turned around to see him vomiting on the hillside and go down to his knees. I was sure that the elk would have to wait and I was going to be packing him out. Luckily some other hunting happened buy and they loaned us their four wheeler. Very scarey deal. I had been walking on the treadmill before the hunt so I did ok. But after I was inspired to make sure I was never in the same condition as my good friend. I now can cover five miles on a six to seven percent grade(I change the grade as I go along) with my hunting pack on filled with everything I take with me, including my rifle. My friend ended up being fine(as fine as one in his condition can be) and he told me that he plans to do it again next year. I don't think I will go along this time though. Good hunting to all.

Kimber1911_06238
August 18, 2007, 12:43 PM
as if we needed a study to tell us that walking on rough terrain/climbing hills and dragging a deer elevate a person's heart rate.....

Loyalist Dave
August 18, 2007, 03:00 PM
OK so walking over uneven terrain, physical and mental stress, followed by dragging a heavy weight...., so 18 holes, with 18 t-offs and 18 putts, with carrying a heavy bag of clubs in between..., so much for GOLF!

LD

Loyalist Dave
August 18, 2007, 03:05 PM
Ok so 3 out of 25 had problems and 3 (probably the SAME 3) had heart rhythm problems. So at the most 24% of male heart patients might be at more risk when hunting than the rest of the population.

Gee, walking over uneven terrain, mental and physical stress, followed by carrying a heavy object..., sounds like each of 18 holes on a golf course. So much for recreational golf! :eek:

LD

B.D. Turner
August 18, 2007, 03:31 PM
Hunting is a sport.

Cosmoline
August 18, 2007, 03:34 PM
I hate medical researchers. They're the most worthless bunch of jerks to plague the modern world. On the one hand they lecture us about the need to stay active because we have to raise the heart rate, then they turn around and say we shouldn't be active because it might raise the heart rate. I think we should hunt them and see what it does to their heart rate.

Clipper
August 18, 2007, 06:13 PM
The hunt does no more damage to the heart than the average driveway with 6" of snow to shovel does, but we don't see anyone trying to scare people away from keeping their driveways & sidewalks clear, do we? In fact, the local assault lawyers would like to give us a heart attack for a different reason if someone fell on our uncleared, but heart-healthy unshoveled sidewalk...

effengee
August 18, 2007, 06:30 PM
Yeah, so let's keep overweight smokers with bad hearts from hunting...
Or doing anything productive with their lives...
My Dad is 78, a "reformed" smoker with a heart condition who recently went on a hunt with my brother for the first time in about 20 years or so...
It was the BEST damn thing that has happened for him in 20 years too!
He's been more active since then.

AntiqueCollector
August 18, 2007, 10:27 PM
Okay, so deer hunting will cause heart attacks, but turkey hunting is okay, won't give heart attacks. :rolleyes:

Stupid studies funded by grants...

Stand_Watie
August 18, 2007, 11:19 PM
"Deer hunting may put men's hearts at risk"

Duh. Yeah this is right up there in the category of the headline which reads "vigorous exercise may put men's hearts at risk"

Any MD from the past, let's say 300 years or so, and any hunter/gatherer/farmer with a lick of common sense for the past, let's say 5,000 years or so, could have dispensed the advice that people who are unhealthy are more likely to "Keel over" during vigorous exercise.

In fact the term "keel over" is a direct decendant of the ancient phonecian word "Ckhil uuver" (circa 1489 bc) which literally means "Big ol' grossly obese guy who drinks too much and smokes like a chimney, tries to drag a saber toothed hyena out of the desert and then clutches his chest, screams "Ckhil uvver!!!", and then falls down and dies.

boilingleadbath
August 19, 2007, 12:34 AM
Well, I have not read the actual papers involved (because I'm lazy, and they'd probably make me pay for them anyways...), but it appears that "heavy snow shoveling" is a less intense activity than the deer hunting.

Of course, that's probably largely an effect of the participants in the studies; the deer one had an average age of 55 years (selected from a group of cardiovascularly challenged people), whereas the average age of "apparently healthy" people in the snow study was 32.

Regardless, I don't see why you feel so angry at the researchers... it's not like they wrote the sensational story.

Stand_Watie
August 19, 2007, 05:44 AM
I had an experence with this this past hunting season. I was asked to go on an elk depredation hunt in the Missouri Breaks last year. The man who asked me is a big man. He is around 450 lbs and for lack of a kinder why to put it is fat...


That's one way to put it. You show me a 450 lb man who isn't (very) fat and I'll show you a ten foot tall man or an eight foot tall bodybuilder..

jmorris
August 19, 2007, 08:53 AM
After spending a week on the beach I can tell you walking in sand at 90-100* is much more difficult than any hunting I've done with the exception of dove hunting over a plowed field.

joebogey
August 20, 2007, 06:29 PM
After spending a week on the beach I can tell you walking in sand at 90-100* is much more difficult than any hunting I've done with the exception of dove hunting over a plowed field.

I hope you didn't look at any beautiful women on that beach. Might possibly raise your bloodpressure and increase the workload on your heart. Course now that I think about it, maybe I should see if I can get a grant to study this problem.
hmmmm.....

Jason_G
August 20, 2007, 06:39 PM
I don't guess I see the problem with the article or the research. It might spark more middle aged guys to go see their doctor for checkups. I know I don't want to be the guy that has a heart attack in the woods, miles away from the nearest hospital. And I certainly don't want to be the one that has to haul out a friend who has had one. We all know that hunting in rough terrain can be rigorous, but I think this helps spell it out for the hard-heads.

Jason

Nathanael_Greene
August 20, 2007, 06:43 PM
The problem isn't that men go hunting, it's that they don't hunt *enough*. If we'd all go out more often, we'd get in better shape, and thereby reduce our risk...right?

(Dear Uncle Sugar: Can I please have $2,000,000 to research this?)

Jason_G
August 20, 2007, 06:48 PM
Everyone keeps mentioning tax dollars and wasting federal funds on this, but does anyone know for sure that this was funded by Uncle Sam? I'm just asking because alot of this type of research is funded by private organizations.

Jason

highfive
August 20, 2007, 09:44 PM
i really don't get this. I'll explain I had heart surgery in may, I still in recovery but doing good. What I don't understand is that the so called study says that hunting gets the heart rate real high. Well I have never hunt but I would like one day. Anyway the point is when I go to my therapies 3 times a week, they get my heart rate high on purpose to see how i'm doing, by making me exercise a lot or things like that then they make me rest and everything is good to go.
Anyway I'll say let's get this people that makes this studies some real information about heart disease or what the doctors do to cure people that has it.
So I guess I should go hunting instead of therapy, that way I'll be doing the exercise I need and I have to do it 3 times a week like therapy is. lol
So when I go to the range is bad for me too, because I won't stop going I love it. I just think that somebody waste "some" money on all this, just my .02

bigdaddyb
August 20, 2007, 10:08 PM
Yep....all that cardio is REALLY bad for you. Just ask the American Heart Association.

Sheesh. The lengths that some of these ninnies won't go to with their little agendas.

Next, they'll be telling me that my obsessive practice sessions with a 70lb bow are bad for me.

I must admit. It's almost entertaining watching the anti's of all flavors twist and contort their little minds to avoid truths that are old, simple, and timeless.

brianb

Davo
August 21, 2007, 02:30 AM
You could put many things in that category, but from personal experience I have seen a few men die on mountainsides while hunting.

10X
August 21, 2007, 09:57 AM
Any sudden out of normal extra physical activity will increase heart rate, etc.

I have three stents in my arteries and the Dr. said do activities as tolerated.
I exercise daily as well as walk up and down my mountain neighborhood daily. The Dr. says to increase the heart rate. That is what exercise is.

Although I don't think I will have a heart attack, I would rather have a heart attack from deer hunting than sitting around from office stress.

If you don't do anything, your health is worse off.

bigdaddyb
August 21, 2007, 10:08 AM
I'm with 10X.

If I have any say in the matter, I'd MUCH rather keel over in the middle of the woods, under the watching eyes of nature than under fluorescent lights and the gawking stares of co-workers.

brianb

buzz_knox
August 21, 2007, 10:38 AM
The hunt does no more damage to the heart than the average driveway with 6" of snow to shovel does, but we don't see anyone trying to scare people away from keeping their driveways & sidewalks clear, do we?

Actually, they do warn people who have cardiovascular issues to be careful when shoveling snow. The stress can and has caused heart attacks.

That being said, the study isn't of any value at all. The study group was far too small and the findings meaningless. They took a group into the wild and "found" that they had a higher heart rate than when excercising in a controlled environment. An amazing and astounding finding that must have been published to fill space in a slow month.

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