sks range report


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saltyphotog
August 18, 2007, 10:16 AM
Went out the other day, Chinese sks, Wolf Military Classic was the flavor of the day, red dot scope, bi-pod on a bench, at 50 yards. Should I expect better? I didn't even attempt 100 yds because I didn't think I would even hit the paper.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r50/saltyphotog/wolfmc005.jpg

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robert garner
August 18, 2007, 10:33 AM
how and to what is the scope mounted? The usual suspect is mounted on the
rear cover(loose and wobbly) NOT conducive to accuracy.

saltyphotog
August 18, 2007, 10:41 AM
its mounted on the hand guard over the gas tube. I took the scope off and tried open sights, the group opened up a bit. I'll put the scope back on.

http://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/3/W/4000000090c92e9/1/17/YNTzpdypkD-yb5vRZi6ixym7gNEJoVzf.jpg (http://www.slide.com/s/4bkXqtN44T9zjHJPdSV_96BO_0rEjlHF?referrer=hlnk)

Picknlittle
August 18, 2007, 10:42 AM
My Yugo and I get about 2 inch groups at 50 yds with the occasional flier, using iron sights. I just installed a red dot on a very tight fitting receiver cover mount, because my eyes fail me at 100 yds and I shoot all over the place. I haven't been to the range with the red dot. That's planned for tomorrow.

I'll try to remember to shoot groups both ways and post them.

Redneck with a 40
August 18, 2007, 11:09 AM
My yugo will also do about a 2 inch group at 50 yards, off-hand with the iron sights.:D So yes, I would expect better than what your's is doing. At 50 yards, mine will keep most of the rounds in the 9 and 10 rings.

DougW
August 18, 2007, 11:13 AM
Both of my SKS rifles will shoot inside the 7 ring at 100 yards all day if I do my part. They are fairly accurate rifles in my opinion, with the sights they have. A better rear sight could improve the accuracy of my rifles, but I keep them for what they are.

eliphalet
August 18, 2007, 11:54 AM
sks range report Hada few, targets like that is why I no longer own one. Couldn't hit a 9"paper plate every shot at 100 yards.
If a scoped rifle won't hit inside a tennis ball every shot almost every time at 100 yards it ain't worth owning IMO, and it otta hit a golf ball to make me happy.
Open sights even with my older eyes can keep about 1" or 2 or thereabouts at 50 yards and the gun better if it wants to stay in my stable. I like to hit stuff not just blast the country side, but to each his own.

Domino
August 18, 2007, 12:54 PM
That accuracy is quite dissapointing, I would imagine you could do better if you had a better scope and mount. I can do better than that wiht iron sights with any of my sks rifles.

This is my clunker Yugo that I modified for close range bench shooting.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/Mudd262/PAW019.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/Mudd262/72feef9e.jpg

It has the following...

-Choate dragunov stock
-Choate scope mount welded on
-Burris 2-7x compact scope
-grenade launcher and bayo mount removed
-Tapco Muzzle break
-I have since installed a shell deflector

Some groups at 85 yards...

Barnaul 123g FMJ
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/Mudd262/PAW018.jpg

1.) Barnaul 125g SP, 2.) Wolf 122g FMJ, 3.) Wolf 158g SP
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/Mudd262/PAW017.jpg

Mauserguy
August 18, 2007, 02:57 PM
Personally, I would remove all of that rattling after market junk and shoot it with iron sights as it was designed. I bet you will get as good, maybe even better accuracy, and have a much more functional weapon.
Mauserguy

ndolson
August 18, 2007, 03:03 PM
Personally, I would remove all of that rattling after market junk and shoot it with iron sights as it was designed. I bet you will get as good, maybe even better accuracy, and have a much more functional weapon.
Mauserguy

I agree. If you think you're going to have a tack driver SKS because you added a scope, you're probably setting yourself up for disappointment.

As was described to me by a gun dealer once... "An SKS isn't a precision rifle, it was meant for 10,000 screaming Chinamen running at you and shooting".

I think alot of it has to do with the loooooooong trigger pull of the SKS. That said, I get fist sized groups @ 50m with my Yugo SKS. Havent tried 100m. My AK-47's seem to be a little more accurate for some reason. I can shoot 6-8" groups at 100m with them.

Both of these rifles are meant for "minute of man" at 100m.

my .02

browningguy
August 18, 2007, 04:11 PM
Agreed those groups aren't as good as the rifle should do. However I disagree with most of the posts. I think the stock sights really suck, with my eyesight I'm lucky to get 8" groups at 100 yards with mine. However with a 2MOA red dot mounted on the rear sight I can get under 3" all day.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jcm9371/Rifles/sksmodified.jpg

The key is a solid mount, the cover mounts and gas tube mounts tend to wobble a lot. You really have to fiddle with the rear cover mounts to get it tight in most cases, some people get lucky with theirs but I never did. For me it's much more functional with the red dot, it's next to useless if I have to shoot the stock sights.

Dr. Peter Venkman
August 18, 2007, 04:26 PM
Stock sights I get 4" groups all day long with my SKS and I hardly take the time to aim.

I suggest going back to the sights and taking your time between shots making sure the post is as best as you can get between your rear sight.

single action
August 19, 2007, 01:53 AM
Have you tried peep sights? for my old eyes,they are much better than the originals. I have one of the "mojo" sights that replace the original. I have also seen advertised M1 garand type sights, but I havent tried them yet.

Picknlittle
August 20, 2007, 12:22 PM
The RSO had just announced we had two minutes left to shoot and I wasn't quite finished tweaking the red dot I'd just installed on my SKS. I hurriedly loaded another ten rounds and this is the rushed result with sweat pouring into my eyes.

Discount the sweat fliers and it's not too bad. 50 yds with the Yugo.

Drat! Now I have to wait til next weekend to finish tweaking and testing. Dang a bunch of sunset!:)

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v230/picknlittle/?action=view&current=SKSWRD.jpg

I can't get my pics to post so here is the link to the pic.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v230/picknlittle/?action=view&current=SKSWRD.jpg

Father Knows Best
August 20, 2007, 12:33 PM
I would remove the red dot and shoot a couple of 5 round groups at 25 yards using the irons. Do it from sand bags, not the bipod, as bipods like that can really screw with your accuracy. If you can keep consistent groups at 25 yards, move out to 50 and try again.

I suspect that scope mount may be loose enough to cause problems, as well as the bipod. In addition, every SKS I have ever shot has had a HORRIBLE trigger, with a long, heavy, creepy pull. It's almost impossible to get decent accuracy with a trigger like that, as you need to be rock steady in your hold and put a lot of effort into keeping it on target while waiting for the break.

Finally, keep in mind that cheap 7.62x39 ammo is not known for being very accurate.

With decent ammo, solidly mounted sights and good trigger control, though, any SKS should be capable of 4 MOA at 100 yards.

Expertowgunner
August 20, 2007, 05:49 PM
The quality of the optics matters alot too. I had been tempted to buy those cheap red dots that you see at wal-mart, pawnshops, gun-shows, and such untill i tried a cheap red dot equiped rifle and with a similiar rifle with a eotech. Simply put, you get what you pay for and remember anything you stick on your rifle may be what you have to use to defend yourself. Ive seen too many red dots that dont hold zeros, have crappy adjustments, and just suck. Go with the quality optics, even though its a pain in the ass to buy and your accuracy will go up. Almost as just as important is quality mounts, cant stress on how much they are important.

CWL
August 20, 2007, 06:04 PM
Get rid of the bipod. Any bipod that mounts onto the barrel is a POS. Wrongly-mounted bipods contribute directly to inaccurate rifles and can even be responsible for bending the barrel.

1. A real bipod will be mounted to the stock of a rifle, anything mounted to the bayonet lug or directly to a barrel will only make if flex and bow.
2. You don't need a bipod for the SKS, it is not a long range precision rifle. If you want to sight it, use sandbags.

Here's a tip (thanks to Col. Cooper) on how to get a little-bit more performance outta that lousy SKS trigger system. Rather than pressing the trigger with the just pad of your finger, pinch the trigger and rear of the trigger guard using your thumb and index finger. Now gently press these two fingers together in a squeeze until the trigger breaks/fires. You will find this to be a much smoother method of working bad triggers.

wnycollector
August 20, 2007, 06:34 PM
I have a norinco SKS and mine shoots like yours with wolf! If you can find chinese steel core (try gunbroker) buy it, my groups shrink by 1/2!

jklinstein
August 20, 2007, 06:50 PM
Mostly a repeat of what's been said:

1. Get rid of the bipod, use a rest (like a sandbag) under the STOCK (not the barrel). Bipods on barrels are only good for full size machine guns.
2. The gas tube mount is suspect (as are receiver cover mounts) and unrelaible - only a receiver mount can be trusted.
3. Cheap red dot scopes are unreliable (last one I owned would shift POI up to 10" at 25 yards).
4. Use at least UMC or some other decent ammunition to test the rifle's ability.
5. If you want an improvement in Iron sights, try TECH-SIGHTS. It makes field stripping difficult, but they double the sighting radius.

sgphoto
August 20, 2007, 06:57 PM
Tech sights work excellent for those who wish to try an aperture sight that is solid and re-mountable without problems.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j112/sgphoto/Yugo%20SKS/Yugo59_66SKSTechSight.jpg

Here on a Yugo and I also have them on my 16" Paratrooper SKS for use as a truck gun. Easy to install, easy to see like an M1 or Enfield.

I've also used Williams drop-in sight for the SKS (replaces existing rear sight) and they are an improvement, but with the long site radius of the TechSight I am more accurate.

Steve

Picknlittle
August 20, 2007, 08:37 PM
I looked at the link to tech sights. I almost went that way and may still since I am leaving iron sights usable. The peep will likely help stop the ghosting I get trying to focus on rear, front and target.

I like the rapid target acquisition of the red dot although for critical bullseye sighting the 5 moa dot obscures the true center of the target. For approximate center of mass, it's wonderful. As for a killing sight at 50 to 100 yards, the five Ds apply. Deer, dog, duck or Dude, are dead.

I think I'd prefer a 6-10 moa circle to the 5 moa dot though. I was rushed on the pictured target. Loading a stripper clip and firing all ten rounds was probably no more than fifteen seconds. I didn't take time to wipe the sweat out of my eyes. The humidity was horrible.

My red dot adjusting isn't quite finished. When complete, even with wolf ammo I don't think I'll have any problem staying inside the heavy black ring of this target at 50, thought I'll raise it 2" from there.

I will likely end up at some point putting the 1.5 to 5 scope that's on my whelen on the SKS after I buy another scope for the whelen.

Domino
August 20, 2007, 08:51 PM
+1 on techsights

I have one on my Norinco Paratrooper and it shoots 4-6 MOA with standard Wolf 122g FMJ.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/Mudd262/C-SKS-6.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/Mudd262/C-SKS-2.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/Mudd262/C-SKS-1.jpg

If you like iron sights, its the best way to go on an SKS. It is without a doubt the best mod I have on that rifle. I like it better than my WASR-10.

Father Knows Best
August 20, 2007, 08:56 PM
The peep will likely help stop the ghosting I get trying to focus on rear, front and target.
Um, you do realize that you're not supposed to be focusing on all those things, right? You focus on the front sight.

If you have trouble using irons, though, then a scope is the solution because it lets you see the "sight" (crosshairs, dot, etc.) and the target in the same plane. The trick with the SKS is getting a scope or other optic sight solidly mounted. The SKS was not designed with optics in mind. Neither was the AK, for that matter, but at least the side rails on AK's work reasonably well for optics mounting.

Picknlittle
August 20, 2007, 09:19 PM
I guess "focus on" is the wrong term. I still have to "see" the front and rear sights clearly and "see" the target clearly. I can't do that and when I get sweat in my eyes, the problem is compounded. The red dot helps, an aperture helps, a scope is a better option for me, but I like to experiment, and an inexpensive red dot experiment is in the works.:)

cracked butt
August 20, 2007, 09:27 PM
You'll probably cut your groups by half or more if you get rid of the bipod- it might look neat but a bipod is supposed to be used for accurate shooting, and a barrel mounted one destroys accuracy.

Picknlittle
August 20, 2007, 09:47 PM
I don't use a bi-pod. That's the guy that started the thread.

yesit'sloaded
August 20, 2007, 11:32 PM
My sks shoots 2 inch groups at 150...no bull. Russian barrel and receiver in a choate stock. I use either Fiocci or Winchester loads only. Wolf tends to widen those groups out to about 5 or 6 inches at that range. Yeah it may be about a dollar per round, but i hit what I aim at. 400 yard hits in a steel body target are not uncommon for me.

jpwilly
August 21, 2007, 02:10 AM
My Yugo cost $149 in Like New condition a few years back. At first I didn't think it could shoot. I was using Wolf Ammo and I'd get 3 shots out of 5 right on target and 2 fliers almost every time. Switching to Silver Bear and Winchester the rifle groups consistantly at 100yrds. It shoots sub moa 1 shot groups all day - LOL!

I threw some accessories on it including a very effective AK-47 muzzle break that I threaded and siver sodered on. The bayonett lug, night sights, and grenade launcher sights have been removed. And all of the US compliance parts have been added: US Made operating rod, gas piston, handguards, magazine...just to be sure it's all legal.

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p38/jpwilly/Picture008.jpg

yesit'sloaded
August 21, 2007, 12:26 PM
so it seems that with good ammo and a decent barrel these do shoot about MOA. I always thought they were that good, but I am glad to see that someone else can back me up on that with a similar performance.

Red Tornado
August 21, 2007, 01:21 PM
Okay, I'm going against the thread, since I also have a Chinese SKS. My groups are about the same as the OP's either using the scope or open sights. I've only used Norinco ammo, but my groups were horrendous from any shooting position. Better ammo would hopefully give groups like the OP, but that's just optimistic.

Obviously I need a Yugo, since they've always had good reviews.

Has anybody else got a Chinese that shoots well?
RT

DMK
August 21, 2007, 01:50 PM
Has anybody else got a Chinese that shoots well?Actually, my two best shooters are Chinese(out of a dozen different SKS in my collection, including Russians, Romanians, Yugos and Albanians). One's a 1978 Norinco 20" and the other is a 16" Norinco Para.

They will do between 2-4MOA depending on the ammo and my abilities that day. Both have Tech Sights, the Para has the thinner Tech Sight front post and a very light and smooth trigger (highly unusual for an SKS).

My "Unissued Condition" Yugo 59/66 shoots about the same as the 20" Norinco. The Russian and a Romanian follow close behind (The Russian also has a Tech sight to correct for a canted front sight block, dispelling the myth that the Russians are the best quality SKS). My worst shooters are "good condition" Yugos with heavy use of corrosive ammo and poor maintenance evident.

A good Chinese SKS is a very reliable and accurate carbine. It's just that their quality is across the board from one individual rifle to the next.

mainmech48
August 21, 2007, 02:14 PM
Of the more-than-several SKSes that I have or have had over the years my favorite is a Chinese commercial model that I bought brand new in 1988. I paid $108 for it with all the 'issue' accessories and 100 rds of ball ammo thrown in. It's my sole 'keep forever' SKS.

It's been my experience that ammo brand is almost as critical for best accuracy in these as it is in some rimfires. The differences in my carbine(s) are dramatic, in some cases exceeding 150% in group size. Example: Chinese Norinco 'Yellow Box' ball with 5 shots into 2 1/2-3/4" at 100 yds from bench & bags vs 7"+ with Russian surplus ball. Unfortunately, the only way I know of to find what a particular carbine likes best is also the same as with a RF: trial and error. I suggest stashing as much as you locate and afford when you find it.

As was said, a solid mount is critical when optics are used. It's not as tough, IMO&E, as some would say if you work carefully and patiently following the directions. It took about an hour for me to fit my own receiver mount from Keng's to my carbine. It's solid and returns to 'zero' +/- approx. 1 'click', at worst, after removal and reinstallation. The "B-Square" mount is another option that works very well. The only reason that I didn't stick with one is that it made returning to 'stock' configuration a bother, as the cover's take-down lever has to be removed and replaced with a through-bolt.

The trigger can be converted from creepy and gritty to a very usable two-stage action by sending the assembly off to Kiivari (sp?). For around $60 including parts and return shipping he'll make it the best that it can be. There are several DIY 'systems' out there on the various boards if you're feeling handy. IMO, it's worth the money to buy the experience and expertise rather than trying to reinvent the wheel. It's also usually less costly, when you figure ruined parts and frustration into the learning curve.

I'm intrigued with the Tech sights, but haven't tried them as yet. The Williams "Firesight" set is easy to install, and the fiber optic front is a great improvement. IMO, the aperture is too far forward to be as useful as it could be, but they also have a standard leaf option if you prefer.

Personally, I don't use commercial 'hunting' loads in my SKSes. I haven't done the 'inertial" (spring return) conversion to the FP and have had a few of instances of doubles (plus one dramatic FA scene) with them. I've never had any such incident using mil-spec ammo, and believe that the much-harder material of the primer cups is the main reason. YMMV, but it can be extremely disconcerting and embarrassing when you inadvertently start to R&R at a square dance.

FWIW, I also agree that unless the bipod is properly mounted so that it doesn't affect the barrel harmonics, it's more cosmetic than useful. With some practice and a proper sling you can do as well or better from a solid prone position without it.

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