[.45Ruger]

I have read that many states have laws that prevent a felon from making money on their crime by doing things like selling their story for money. Could a state legislature pass a law to prohibit people convicted of a felony from making money on that crime, in any way? I'm thinking they could just make it iligal for some creep to break into your house, get shot, and sue you. Is this feasible and if so let's get started.

[Pilgrim]

It's possible, I suppose. It would require a major change in Tort law. It could also be expanded to, "Because Randy Weaver was a fugitive from justice, he is not entitled to sue the U.S. Government for the wrongful deaths of his son and wife."

Pilgrim

[4v50 Gary]

Rowland v. Christian, a CA Supreme decision, imposed a duty to inspect & make safe one's home for burglars. Appears that a burglar fell through a skylight and sued and the CA Supremes under Rose Bird held for the plantiff burglar. I once asked one assemblyman to help reverse it legislatively. It's still the law. :(

[CasualShooter]

So be it, Pilgrim! :)

I think that sueing a person in civil court after they have been aquitted in criminal court is a fairly recent development anyhow. I don't recall that being the case when I was young.

Seems like a form of double jeapordy to me somehow.

I think that .45 Ruger has a good idea. :D

Oh, what a battle that would be to get that one past the Trial Attourneys. :barf: :banghead:

[Zundfolge]

I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV ...


It seems to me that in cases like the case of the burgler who fell through the skylight, and the one who got stuck in the garage and had to live off dogfood and Pepsi, if you're not home and the Burgler is harmed you may be found liable. However if you are home and kill the intruder there is less chance of a successful suit (especialy in states like Colorado with "Make My Day" type laws ... obviously this doesn't count in New "Sullivan Law" York, unless you kill the intruder with something other then a gun).

So if you come home from vacation and find some slob in your garage with dogfood crumbs all over his shirt, shoot first and ask questions later :p

[Byron Quick]

Here in Georgia, if he forcibly enters my home, the state legislature says it is OK to kill him if I think he will commit a felony. Don't think he is going to make much headway with a suit even if he survives.

[4v50 Gary]

NV is the best. You can use deadly force to retake your chattel (personal non-real property). That's the way it ought to be.

[P95Carry]

I have long maintained that no felon .... caught red handed in particular or convicted - should retain any rights to sue his potential victim if he gets harmed.

The very act of crime commital IMO should make null and void such rights ... and I'd extend this also to a perp's family if he gets injured/killed ...... it is absurd to think that a dead perp's family can even try to sue a person - who puts the slime down as an act of self defence and or defence of his/her property.

Rights and freedoms come at a price ...... and when these are trodden on by criminals then they should not be able to keep those rights themselves ..... and should be made to see that. We are way too soft on perps overall in this respect.

[Skunkabilly]

the state legislature says it is OK to kill him if I think he will commit a felony

Isn't breaking into someone's dwelling a felony? :confused:

[Ledbetter]

Skunk, criminal intent (usually intent to steal) is an element of burglary. Otherwise its just trespassing.

In any case aim high and be thorough.

[Sprout]

Uh 4v50 Gary, in Rowland v. Christian, the plaintiff was a guest of the defendant who cut himself on a cold water faucet, not a burglar who fell through a skylight. I asked my criminal law professor about this during my first year at law school and he thought it was a myth. (See Http://www.snopes2.com/legal/lawsuits.htm) Now I believe that California has done away with the common law "no duty to trespassers" rule, but even then you'd have to show negligence, and it probably isn't forseeable that somebody would get stuck in your skylight. trying to rob the house

If you can find the cite for the case, I'd really like to see it.

Skunk: At common law, breaking in is felony burglary if at the time you had the intent to commit another felony (hell, under traditional common law it had to be at night). Whether it's a felony under state law varies from state to state.

[Sprout]

Here's another page that discusses this legend. Again, plenty of news stories, but no case citations.

http://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=217602

However, there are pleny of cases just as stupid: a guy jumps off of a roof into an above-the-ground pool and cracks his head. He then sues the pool manufacturer because the pool was defective, as the vinyl-lined bottom was slippery, and won (O'Brien v. Muskin Corp). I believe that it was overturned by statute.

[Ledbetter]

Rowland v. Christian 69 Cal.2d 108 (1968)

[Monkeyleg]

In Milwaukee it is illegal for the owner of a public building to install door locks that require a key to unlock them from the inside. You must have a lever or knob on the inside.

The two reasons that I was given for this by the building inspector were: a) to prevent someone working in the building from being trapped during a fire, etc; and b) to prevent a burglar from being trapped inside during a fire.

I haven't heard of a burglar suing because he was trapped but, I'll bet if I did some searching, I'd find such a case.

[another okie]

Some states do have laws forbidding criminals from profiting by their crimes through books and movies. I'm not sure how constitutional such acts are.

As far as suing criminals who harm you, it does indeed happen if you can find some money or insurance or assets to take. If you killed a criminal and he had insurance on his own life payable to his estate you might be able to make something out of that. Most criminals, even successful ones, have no assets in their own name and basically judgment proof.

[Smoke]

Another and IIRC more common problem is the jailed felon, or sometimes the deceased felon's family members sue in civil court for the loss of their primary provider.

Instance 1. Guy breaks into your house, trys to steal things, threatens you, you detain him for police and he is sent up the river. Family sues you for loss of income. This is rare and not usually succesful.

Instance 2. Guy breaks into your house, trys to steal things, threatens you, You light him up with two C.O.M. and one to the head. Family sues you for wrongful death, loss of income. You can bank on this one coming to trial and the result will vary with your location and the jurors picked.

[Sprout]

Not to beat a dead horse, but: Rowland v. Christian [69 Cal.2d 108] http://www.vcsun.org/~djordan/rowland.htm

"In his complaint plaintiff alleged that about November 1, 1963, Miss Christian told the lessors of her apartment that the knob of the cold water faucet on the bathroom basin was cracked and should be replaced; that on November 30, 1963, plaintiff entered the apartment at the invitation of Miss Christian; that he was injured while using the bathroom fixtures, suffering severed tendons and nerves of his right hand; and that he has incurred medical and hospital expenses.... Miss Christian filed an answer containing a general denial except that she alleged that plaintiff was a social guest and admitted the allegations that she had told the lessors that the faucet was defective and that it should be replaced."

[trooper]

Instance 2. Guy breaks into your house, trys to steal things, threatens you, You light him up with two C.O.M. and one to the head. Family sues you for wrongful death, loss of income. You can bank on this one coming to trial and the result will vary with your location and the jurors picked.

This drives me nuts. It is totally beyond my comprehension how someone can can be sued in a civil court for an act of lawful self-defense.

Can you name any other country beside the US where this is possible?


Regards,

Trooper

[Byron Quick]

Instance 2. Guy breaks into your house, trys to steal things, threatens you, You light him up with two C.O.M. and one to the head. Family sues you for wrongful death, loss of income. You can bank on this one coming to trial and the result will vary with your location and the jurors picked.

I know families here in Georgia who have been in such a situation. Their poor misunderstood loved one has burglarized his last home or robbed his last business.. The family looks high for an attorney. The family looks low for an attorney. The family finds many attorneys willing to file the suit. For cash. In advance. The more ethical attorneys tell the family that they will lose the suit. The family finds not one single attorney who will to file the suit on a contigency fee basis.

I am not aware of any wrongful death suit filed in Georgia where the death was ruled a justifiable homicide by the district attorney.

I'm not claiming such hasn't happened. But it sure hasn't had much publicity.

[David Scott]

Florida Statutes:

776.085 Defense to civil action for damages; party convicted of forcible or attempted forcible felony.--

(1) It shall be a defense to any action for damages for personal injury or wrongful death, or for injury to property, that such action arose from injury sustained by a participant during the commission or attempted commission of a forcible felony. The defense authorized by this section shall be established by evidence that the participant has been convicted of such forcible felony or attempted forcible felony, or by proof of the commission of such crime or attempted crime by a preponderance of the evidence.


Which means that if you're committing a forcible felony and get hurt, you can't sue no one. The law goes on to say that if you try to and lose the case, you lose all sorts of jail privileges, and you and your attorney are liable for the sued party's costs.

A "forcible felony" is defined here:

776.08 Forcible felony.--"Forcible felony" means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

Full citation:
http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0776/SEC085.HTM&Title=->2002->Ch0776->Section%20085

IMHO this law is one of the best. When someone commits a crime, they carry the can for everything that results from it.

[Zundfolge]

This drives me nuts. It is totally beyond my comprehension how someone can can be sued in a civil court for an act of lawful self-defense.

Can you name any other country beside the US where this is possible?

Well in England if you use violence in self defense, be prepaired to go to jail.

[agricola]

zundfolge,

wrong again. in most free countries one can sue anyone for pretty much anything, the difficult part is finding a court that will accept such a claim.

[F4GIB]

Minnesota Statutes, 2000, section 611A.08 provides:

611A.08 Barring perpetrators of crimes from recovering
for injuries sustained during criminal conduct.

Subdivision 1. Definitions. As used in this section:

(1) "perpetrator" means a person who has engaged in
criminal conduct and includes a person convicted of a crime;

(2) "victim" means a person who was the object of another's
criminal conduct and includes a person at the scene of an
emergency who gives reasonable assistance to another person who
is exposed to or has suffered grave physical harm;

(3) "course of criminal conduct" includes the acts or
omissions of a victim in resisting criminal conduct; and

(4) "convicted" includes a finding of guilt, whether or not
the adjudication of guilt is stayed or executed, an unwithdrawn
judicial admission of guilt or guilty plea, a no contest plea, a
judgment of conviction, an adjudication as a delinquent child,
an admission to a juvenile delinquency petition, or a
disposition as an extended jurisdiction juvenile.

Subd. 2. Perpetrator's assumption of the risk. A
perpetrator assumes the risk of loss, injury, or death resulting
from or arising out of a course of criminal conduct involving a
violent crime, as defined in this section, engaged in by the
perpetrator or an accomplice, as defined in section 609.05, and
the crime victim is immune from and not liable for any civil
damages as a result of acts or omissions of the victim if the
victim used reasonable force as authorized in section 609.06 or
609.065.

Subd. 3. Evidence. Notwithstanding other evidence
which the victim may adduce relating to the perpetrator's
conviction of the violent crime involving the parties to the
civil action, a certified copy of: a guilty plea; a court
judgment of guilt; a court record of conviction as specified in
section 599.24, 599.25, or 609.041; an adjudication as a
delinquent child; or a disposition as an extended jurisdiction
juvenile pursuant to section 260B.130 is conclusive proof of the
perpetrator's assumption of the risk.

Subd. 4. Attorney's fees to victim. If the
perpetrator does not prevail in a civil action that is subject
to this section, the court may award reasonable expenses,
including attorney's fees and disbursements, to the victim.

Subd. 5. Stay of civil action. Except to the extent
needed to preserve evidence, any civil action in which the
defense set forth in subdivision 1 or 2 is raised shall be
stayed by the court on the motion of the defendant during the
pendency of any criminal action against the plaintiff based on
the alleged violent crime.

Subd. 6. Violent crime; definition. For purposes of
this section, "violent crime" means an offense named in sections
609.185; 609.19; 609.195; 609.20; 609.205; 609.221; 609.222;
609.223; 609.2231; 609.24; 609.245; 609.25; 609.255; 609.342;
609.343; 609.344; 609.345; 609.561; 609.562; 609.563; and
609.582, or an attempt to commit any of these offenses.
"Violent crime" includes crimes in other states or jurisdictions
which would have been within the definition set forth in this
subdivision if they had been committed in this state.