Hypothetical (inspired by "Survivorman"): Which gun would you choose?


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bestseller92
August 19, 2007, 02:46 AM
On last night's "Survivorman", Les had to survive 7 days in the Amazon river basin jungle, with only a spear for protection against jaguars, etc. He actually saw and was followed by a jag at the end of his 7 days.

Les was unarmed (except for the spear and his Leatherman Surge), but I wouldn't be, and I bet you wouldn't be, either. With that in mind, I've prepared a list of weapons, from which you can choose one for your very own 7 day Amazon jungle survival experience. Use it for protection, food gathering, etc.

Choose well.

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Lone_Gunman
August 19, 2007, 03:11 AM
I voted for the 44 mag. The higher capacity and speed of the Glock 20 is unlikely to be helpful in the event you are attacked by a jaguar.

I wouldn't worry about a 22 for food gathering. You can make it 7 days without anything if you have to.

Monkeybear
August 19, 2007, 03:13 AM
I would want a CZ Kadet for food. Anything in the jungle you can't take out with a .22lr is too big to be messing with. That said I wouldn't mind a 4" GP100 as a second choice.

I think you are going to find very few people who want to pick a gun off of your list. Not your fault, there are just so many different flavors.

bestseller92
August 19, 2007, 03:14 AM
Les almost did. He had two pieces of fruit, two shrimp, and a can of pop in 7 days.

Yes, I know, this is a silly poll, but it's fun (at least to me LOL).

Autolycus
August 19, 2007, 03:51 AM
I chose the Glock 20. With the right load it would do well I imagine.

doc2rn
August 19, 2007, 09:03 AM
The way to protect yourself from a big cat is to make noise and tree it. Then shoot it in the lung with a .22, when it dies it falls out of the tree. If you wound it with a BIG GUN it will fall down and come after you. Been huntin cats here in Ks awhile.

everallm
August 19, 2007, 12:08 PM
CZ P-01 or SP-01 with the Kadet .22 kit for critter hunting.

knockonit
August 19, 2007, 12:18 PM
The amazon has only one or two predators to worry about (with man being the worst) anyway the 22 will get you about everything you need and not destroy much of the meat.
It is the foremost gun in my shtf bag as it will get you anything you want if used correctly.

Feanaro
August 19, 2007, 01:12 PM
The way to protect yourself from a big cat is to make noise

Which was what our Survivorman did. The jaguar ignored him and then followed him to a village, where it stalked around the wall all night. Some animals aren't as afraid of you as you are of them.

SnakeEater
August 19, 2007, 03:27 PM
That episode is probably my favorite, Les makes a great show. I chose the G20 for all of the obvious reasons, not the least of which is corrosion resistance.

With 60+ hostile tribes in the area you wouldn't catch me out there with only a pistol. It seems like the ideal environment for an M4 with Aimpoint mounted. Just have to bring PLENTY of CLP.

Noxx
August 19, 2007, 03:49 PM
I went with the .44. The glock was 2nd on my list, as plastic doesn't rust, but I wonder about the efficacy of the 10mm against the big cats out there.

Les does make a great show, head and shoulders above that Bear guy, and his obsession with contrived drama.

2RCO
August 19, 2007, 03:58 PM
Marble's Game Getter --NFA rules don't apply in the Amazon. Honestly though I think I would feel fine with a .22 but I'd feel finer with a 1911 variant if 45 ACP doesn't stop it with 7 rounds I don't really want to deal with it.

Les Stroud is twice the survivor of Bear Girls<---I spelled the name wrong on purpose for all you typo-fascists.

Squidward
August 19, 2007, 04:34 PM
G 20 due to the light weight, ammo capacity and durability.

mokin
August 19, 2007, 05:34 PM
I picked the .22 simply because one can carry 100 rounds of .22 ammo in the same space and weight as 30 rounds of center fire ammo. Plus, it's a lot easier to pull the bullet of a .22 cartridge for fire starting than a larger round.

Ragnar Danneskjold
August 19, 2007, 06:45 PM
Usp 45

Innova
August 19, 2007, 07:02 PM
Glock 20 for me please.

Checkman
August 19, 2007, 07:12 PM
Have to go with the Ruger MK III, but I would probably take the Browning Buckmark Camper if I could. Weight-wise the 22LR is easier to carry for that type of situation and would be excellent for killing small game. Accurate little round.

bestseller92
August 19, 2007, 07:59 PM
I think Les was careful to stay in a certain area where the hostile tribes weren't a factor (or weren't LIKELY to be a factor).

That having been said, I'd much rather "survive" in the Rocky Mountains, in New Mexico, in the Georgia swamps or in Alaska than in the buggy, dangerous, WET Amazon.

glockman19
August 19, 2007, 08:13 PM
I voted for the S&W .44 mag.

No Doubt at least a .44 mag.

Crunker1337
August 19, 2007, 08:34 PM
Come on, you certainly don't need a .44 to take down a cat with one shot.

Heck, even a .40 would be adequate.

I chose the GLOCK for versatility, lightweight, reliability, and power. Also useful if any human threats are encountered.

Geronimo45
August 19, 2007, 10:26 PM
I chose the Glock 20... but on second thought, should've picked the Taurus Judge. The Glock's plenty resistant to corrosion, plenty powerful and reliable - but you might need birdshot to clear the area of mosquitoes.:D

Deaf Smith
August 19, 2007, 10:47 PM
AK-47. Why settle for a handgun? AK will solve any two or four legged problem you would meet in the Amazon.

JohnMcD348
August 19, 2007, 10:48 PM
I chose the .44 being a simple design Revolver, less to deal with in the jungle environment and more likely to work after dredging through the mung of that environment. All things considered, I think I would be better off with the .22 and a couple of 100 round boxes of ammo. If I can't kill it with a .22, I probably really don't need to be shooting at it in the first place.

Bob M.
August 19, 2007, 10:49 PM
A Smith 629 4" bbl loaded with 320 gn hard cast would be my choice. :D

koja48
August 19, 2007, 10:57 PM
Don't own one, but can't put-down the reliability & durability of the Glock 20, especially in that environment. And since shooting a jag or other critters might serve to attract members of the local diners club, high capacity would be an additional plus.

Orr89rocz
August 19, 2007, 11:24 PM
i like the 45 acp cartridge. plenty for jags if your good with aim. Kimber stainless would be nice. should be rugged enough for the moisture in the rainforrest.

Revolver might be a better choice as its less moving parts than a semi auto. 44 mag is overkill but better safe than sorry when it comes to jags and stuff.

glock 10mm is nice too.

either of those 3 would be sweet.

22 with lots of ammo tho would be awesome for shooting fish in the amazon river and small critters you might find...maybe birds too.

Magnum.35744
August 20, 2007, 12:20 AM
Great stopping power and very reliable.

Bob M.- I didn't know that a S&W 629 could withstand a 320 grain bullet :what:...thought 310 was all you could go without blowing it up or damaging it...mind explaining, (or better yet pm me so I dont get accused of thread jacking :evil:). Thanks and take care.

-Tre

10-Ring
August 20, 2007, 12:54 AM
I was torn for a few minutes, but when it came right down to it, I'll go w/ mod 29.

medmo
August 20, 2007, 03:21 AM
M29 44mag please. It probably is over-kill but I'm sure it would be comforting to fondle at zero-dark-thirty when things are going bump in the night.

Silvanus
August 20, 2007, 07:36 AM
Glock 20. I'm familiar with Glocks and the 10mm Auto is a powerful caliber (for a handgun).

kgriggs8@yahoo.com
August 20, 2007, 05:14 PM
"Come on, you certainly don't need a .44 to take down a cat with one shot.

Heck, even a .40 would be adequate."

Good luck with that! Cats are probably the toughest animals on earth and a .44mag is not too much gun for one. A 12ga loaded with 000 buckshot would be more like. A big cat can and will run through any handgun bullet and still have enough time to kill and eat you. It will probably only piss it off if you shoot it and then you are in for it.

Pound for pound, cats are the worst thing I could imagine hunting me. They are no joke and anyone that has ever been stalked by one knows how much they out class us. They are silent and quick. You feel like crippled sow when you are out in the woods in the fading light and you are trying to get back to your vehical with a cat on your trail. Its scary even if you have a gun.

TnShooter83
August 20, 2007, 05:32 PM
I would have picked the 44 Mag if you would have offered it in a longer barrel.
Good for most all game.

JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone
August 20, 2007, 06:10 PM
Toss up between my Kimber Stainless II in 45acp, or my SS Ruger Redhawk 5 1/2" in .44mag. No problem with my hot 300gn loads meant for Deer, Bear or Elk. And the 5 1/2" barrel is nicer to carry than my 7 1/2" SBH. At defensive distances, the shorter barrel is an advantage over a longer barrelled pistol. In a revolver I'd rather have DA. The 1911, well, It would deliver just what John Browning designed it for. Reliable close in support redily field strip-able without the use of tools more than a firing pin.

For food gathering, I'd have some of my light target loads that are deadly accurate.

Yes, the 45 should be quite enough cartridge, but those hogs can be a bit cantankerous. I'd rather have the .44mag. Then again, that big revolver and ammo is much heavier than the 1911. -So, is there a local guide carrying the rest of my gear?

Ideally, a full sized SS 1911 in 10mm would be great. -Just a little more pop than a .45acp.

A large cal SS 1911 with rail, light and Crimson Trace grips would be superb.

-Steve

nwilliams
August 20, 2007, 07:19 PM
+1 for Les Stroud, great show!

My favorite episode is the one on where he spends 7 days in the arctic and starts a fire with his rifle:D

Man Vs. Wild on the other hand.....no thanks.

I had to go with the S&W .500, there's just something about an automatic in the Amazon jungle that just doesn't feel right, I want a powerful revolver.

Snapping Twig
August 20, 2007, 08:40 PM
Make mine a 29.

Some shot shell loads using #8 shot and a couple gas checks over some W231 and a whole pocket full of hard cast rounds, good to go.

KINGMAX
August 20, 2007, 08:49 PM
My real choice is not listed. I would chose my Smith and Wesson 686-1 in .357 magnum.

Don357
August 20, 2007, 11:23 PM
I chose the Ruger Kp95 because I don't like Glocks. My second choice would be "The Judge"

8830
August 21, 2007, 01:38 AM
I voted for the Glock 20. You may need the capacity against more than just big cats.

jungleroy
August 21, 2007, 02:19 AM
I really like the 10mm Glock 20 with a 6 inch hunting barrel.
Although I might have picked it because it was at the top of my choices.

bdjansen
August 21, 2007, 05:26 AM
I hope you guys know this show is a fake. He stays in hotels and stuff.

My grandpa used to hunt big cats. With a rifle of course. My mom has a leopard skin hanging in the house I grew up in. I just went back the other week and for the first time I thought how strange it is to have the skin of a large cat on your wall. Funny the things you get used to when you grow up with them.

One time my grandpa was hunting a tiger. He had tied up an old dog from the village to a stake and was waiting in the bushes nearby. He hears a quiet sound behind him, turns and is face to face with the tiger. He brought the rifle up and it made a click. (I cant remember if he had to work the bolt. I figure he would have already had one in the chamber. The gun might have misfired too. It's been a while since I heard the story.) Just with that tiny click the tiger took off. It could have killed him but was just curious. This was a tiger that was killing the local livestock too (that was why my grandpa was hunting it) and was probably not too afraid of people. Big cats are just like their smaller house pet versions. They are curious.

I would pick a 44mag. Lots of damage, not hard to control. But I would fire one into the air first. A cat is not a grizzly. I would be a 100% sure it would book it out of there. We need more big cats in the world too. There is not a more beautiful animal out there.

MK11
August 21, 2007, 09:18 AM
Different show. "Man Vs. Wild" is the one where the host stays in hotels.

Boats
August 21, 2007, 10:05 AM
I'd want my Ruger KGP-141 in .357 Mag. Y'all can keep your delicate S&W revolvers and plastic Austrian bricks.:p

MCgunner
August 21, 2007, 10:53 AM
My Taurus M66, thanks, with a supply of .38 wadcutter for small game and 158 magnum for big cats and such. It's 1" at 25 yards accurate with either. You don't list the number one gun to carry, a K frame .357 no matter who made it, if it's accurate with .38 and .357. That's MY choice. Light on the hip, powerful, accurate. It cannot be beat. I didn't vote, but if I had to, the mountain gun with a supply of specials for small game and magnums would be the choice from those you list. I like .38/.357, though, because I can carry a bit more ammo in the same space and it'll get the job done just fine. My 4" Taurus 66 is my go do back packing/outdoor gun now days, though I like my .45 Colt 4 5/8" stainless Blackhawk if there are to be BIG critters to encounter. The .357 is lighter, easier to tote, and carries more ammo, though, so I usually take it. The Blackhawk would be the obvious choice in Griz country, but I never go there. I actually bought it for back up when chasing hogs at night with dogs, something I haven't done in a while, either. It's an awesome gun, but breaks a little over 40 ounces on the hip and when you're hiking, every ounce counts.

If I had the money, I'd be lookin' for a used Taurus .41 mag titanium tracker (they dropped it) or a new .357 Mag titanium Tracker. I think that's the only way to improve my gun, make it lighter yet. No autos for me. Capacity means squat compared to accuracy when making a 75 or 100 yard shot on game or man. I can easily hit a man at 100 yards with my field carry guns. If I'm on my own, I really see no need for suppressive fire and you're going to have limited ammo on you at any rate. We're talkin' survival here, not war. Most autos would be next to worthless in this situation if they can't hold 1" groups at 25 yards, 4 MOA. I have one gun that can do that, a Ruger P90, and the .45 is just too wimpy and I doubt I could hold over enough with it at 100 yards to hit anything, never tried.

BTW, this is sorta a useless, but fun thread. Thanks. :D

GunTech
August 21, 2007, 11:05 AM
I'd rather pack around a light rifle than a handgun.

Augustwest
August 21, 2007, 11:31 AM
Picked the Taurus.

Hot loaded .45s and .410s are a good option to have, IMO.

nwilliams
August 21, 2007, 02:40 PM
I hope you guys know this show is a fake. He stays in hotels and stuff.

As MK11 pointed out that show is Man vs. Wild with Bear Grylls

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=470155&in_page_id=1770

He also travels with a camera crew and his ego is almost unbearable (no pun intended) to watch.:barf:

SoonerSP101
August 21, 2007, 02:51 PM
I would have my stainless Ruger Super Redhawk - 7.5" barrel - .44 Mag with 20.0 grains of 296 and a 300 grain XTP.

6-shot Chrono: 1317 (cold barrel), 1325, 1325, 1325, 1328, and 1323

Most accurate and consistent load in my gun. I've spent the range time working that up and have the data to back it up.

Topped with a silver Leupold fixed 4x EER (extended eye relief) scope.

CountGlockula
August 21, 2007, 02:56 PM
Chose the Glock for reliabilty and torture-free.

bdjansen
August 21, 2007, 03:06 PM
Different show. "Man Vs. Wild" is the one where the host stays in hotels.

Ahh, sorry. I don't watch TV and had them confused.

Kimber1911_06238
August 21, 2007, 03:08 PM
I'd take the judge. .45 colt is pretty good for defense and the birdshot would be great for taking small critters for food

capitolpeak
August 23, 2007, 01:40 AM
smith 629 hands down with doubletap 300gr +P hollow points. A G20 is a good second but all that swamp muck.....I dunno. Glock or not those internals would get very iffy after a few days of water and mud.

capitolpeak
August 23, 2007, 01:58 AM
this is what I would take..best of ALL worlds and things considered. Why wasnt this on your list???

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/Carbon15/az-c15p21s.asp

theken206
August 23, 2007, 02:33 AM
Why Cant I Bring My Rifle?? :p

Clipper
August 23, 2007, 02:40 AM
None of those you have listed...

Gimme a stainless 6 1/2" blackhawk in .357, please. A few .38 wadcutters for eatin' critters, and silvertip HPs for serious shooting...

reppondj
August 24, 2007, 11:07 AM
Big gun = heavy bullets = the less you can carry.
Small gun = light bullets = the more you can carry.

In a survival situation the weight you have to carry along with the stress, how much food you are able to find and how far you have to go to find civilization are probably more important than anything else.

As stated a number of times before the 22 will get you any food you need and there are alternative methods for protecting yourself against predators. If you need something larger than a 22 to kill it then you probably cant eat it all!

MCgunner
August 24, 2007, 12:59 PM
I'd take the judge. .45 colt is pretty good for defense and the birdshot would be great for taking small critters for food

I like Taurus, but that particular model is next to useless. It's not particularly accurate enough with .45 for game of any size past 30 or 40 yards from what I've been hearing and .410 shotguns out of it are totally, completely, absolutely WORTHLESS for anything, but shooting a snake at 2 feet. The pattern is non-existent and you'd be better off with a good .22 revolver killing small game. You could better hit a squirrel or rabbit at 15 yards with that thing by throwing the gun at it. It's totally worthless, completely worthless, less than worthless, a boat anchor on your hip. Did I mention it's worthless? :D I get tired of people thinking they're going to go duck hunting with that POS. It's not designed for the outdoors, it's designed for home defense with .410 000 buck loads and in that roll it has some merit, though I can live without it.

A light carbine like my Rossi .38/.357 M92 or a light double like my Remington Spartan coach gun in 20 gauge would be nice, of course, but the idea in this scenario is you're not out there hunting or expecting to need a gun. You just take the handgun along just in case and because it's light and out of the way. Yeah, I'd rather have my coach gun or .357 carbine than any big revolver like the redhawk. I mean, why tote a gun that big and heavy when you can tote a shoulder weapon just as easily? But, I think a 4" K frame size .357 totes real comfortable on a long hike cause I've done it many times. It's my usual companion on such hikes and if I ever wound up in one of those Survivorman situations, it'd likely be the gun I'd have on me at the time. Of course, if I were riding in the desert on a dirt bike, I wouldn't be on no 30 year old Honda CT90, either! ROFLMAO A reference to the one where he was stranded in the Aridzona desert when his dirt bike supposedly broke down. It was a good prop I guess and you don't go buy a brand new KTM to trash in a TV show, I guess. LOL If I ever got stuck out, it'd probably be in a scenario very similar to that particular show, though. I'll never be in the amazon or north of the arctic circle on a snow mobile or in Africa, or whatever. That's one thing I like about the Survivorman show, though, the realistic scenarios where you might get stuck. Bear Grylles always just sky dives into some remote area and works his way out. You ain't catchin' me jumping out of a perfectly good airplane! ROFL And, I ain't climbin' no sheer cliffs, either. He does some stupid stuff, but I still like watchin' his show for the entertainment. He isn't as believable as Les Stroud, I'd grant you, but I'd addicted to both of those shows. I mean, it's better than "Desparate Housewifes" or any of the other trash on the networks anymore.

Oh, and if Les Stroud reads this, it's Have-ah-LEEN-ah....not HAVE-ah-leen (the man cannot pronounce Javelina).

rbernie
August 24, 2007, 01:40 PM
Cats are probably the toughest animals on earthNo freakin' way. They are thin-skinned and not particularly tough or onery. They tend to give up pretty quickly, unlike other DG.

I'd take a 22LR pistol as the most useful tool of the choices.

MCgunner
August 24, 2007, 01:56 PM
One thing about the .22, you would have plenty of ammo and not be burdened with it. However, .22 ammo isn't particularly water proof, one bad thing about it if you were in a wet environment or had to swim a river or something.

GunTech
August 24, 2007, 01:58 PM
I vote with the others who picked rifle. Really, a rifle shotgun combo gun would be my first choice.

MCgunner
August 24, 2007, 04:56 PM
My contender is effective on small game out to about 20 yards with it's .45/.410 barrel and the choke screwed on. With the .45 Colt and a 300 grain JHP at 1200 fps, it's pretty effective on big game out to 50 yards. Not real accurate past that, about 7-8 moa. Pretty decent survival gun, though, but it's too big and heavy to be totin' too far and cumbersome. Might as well have a long gun I reckon as that one.

roscoe
August 25, 2007, 01:19 AM
Jaguars - really. I would be happy to see one. That means there is game in the area. An accurate .22 is the way to go.

BobMcG
August 25, 2007, 10:05 PM
I won't bother bringing up weapons that shoulda, woulda, coulda, been on the list and aren't but I would have chosen "Other" had it been there. OK, be that as it may...
I thought the .44 would be a great choice if not for the 4" barrel (I'm used to a 6" 29) so I went all the way for the 8" 500 Smith. Maybe with a little drama of playing injured and I'd be eating cat for the duration. :p

Lone Star
August 26, 2007, 01:30 AM
Your list of guns seems very odd...Do you really have much background with firearms? :confused: Have you considered the terrain and climate?

FIrst, we have to know the weapons laws. In Brazil, civilians cannot own a revolver of over .38 Special caliber, or an auto above .380, if memory serves.

In that scenario, I'd take a S&W M-64 .38 with four inch barrel, or the adjustable sighted version, the M-67. Ammo would be a mix of roundnosed standard speed for small game (wadcutters would be fine if you had some) and whatever high velocity load was legal, if any. I think hollowpoints are forbidden, at least for civilians.

In a country with more leeway, I'd select a S&W M-66 wth four-inch barrel and Pachmayr grips like I'd also use on the .38 if I had to use that.

The stainless construction and rubber grips would be invaluable. I read some comments years ago by a US Aid official in South America who used M-19 Smiths because the M-66 wasn't available yet. He was especially fond of the M-60 .38 snub, and made up some warm handloads for it. He killed ocelot and tapir, but not, I think jaguar. Killed brocket deer.

I'd add a Marlin M-995 stainless .22 rifle for smaller animals and to allow a large ammo supply. The alternative is to get a rifle in, say, .257 Roberts or one of the 6mm calibers, with stainless barrel and action and synthetic stock. The wet weather really ruins blued steel.

The AID guy said that a .257 has enough power and won't violate laws against "military" calibers. But I'd bet he had trouble finding ammo!

Shooting agouti, capybara, deer, and other animals will keep you fed, and a .22 might work, with careful shot placement. But a .243 does give an edge. A 223/5.56MM is military. Not allowed.

I like the idea of a Ruger GP-100, but the M-66 S&W is handier, and you can't carry enough .38 or .357 ammo to wear out the gun!

I think that a spear is a good idea. It can eke out your ammo supply, and take some fish. And Sasha Siemel proved that a stout spear will stop even a big 400 pound jaguar. He and his wfe also shot jacare (caiman) with bows. He used Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum and .44 revolvers. Didn't say if they were .44 Specials or .44/40, though. He mainly hunted from around WW I, when he emigrated to Brazil from Latvia through the 1950's. He used .44 Winchester rifles a lot, probably the M-92.

Teddy Roosevelt was there in 1919, and felt that a pistol like the .30 Mauser would be effective. Today, the ammo would be hard to find, if legal, and the gun is an antique! But the gun and ammo back then were pretty well state of the art.

Keep in mind that .44 Magnum ammo is heavy. Not too great an issue if you have a canoe, but you may have to trek overland at times.

I read a story years ago in, "Guns" where a couple found the 9mm Luger effective, and too powerful for the smaller animals. (The 9mm is still legal in Venezuela, I think.) But they liked the .22 Colt Woodsman and similar pistols for small animals at average range.

If I took a .22 pistol, it would be my Ruger MK. II, which I prefer to the Mk III. Mine has the 5.5-inch "bull" barrel. Very accurate. The standard model with six-inch barrel is lighter and has the velocity advantage over shorter barrels. The S&W M-63 would be good, but revolvers in .22 lose velocity, and extraction is often sticky.

If you wanted a really compact revolver, I'd take a S&W M-60-4, with full lug barrel and target sights. The three-inch barrel provides more punch and controllibility.

Of the guns you listed, I'd take the S&W M-629 .44 Mountain Gun, if legal there. Stainless, and ammo slection can be varied.

Lone Star

bulbboy
August 26, 2007, 06:49 PM
Picked the 10mm Glock

Nice to see you on here Bestseller!!

Browning
August 26, 2007, 07:07 PM
I voted for the Glock 20 in 10MM for three reasons.

1) It's polymer so that can't rust and the metal on there has a Tenifer finish so it's corrosion resistant at the very least.

2) It's 10MM so that's powerful enough for me and it'll take down most animals in that locale if you use the right ammo for the job (Full Power 180 grain's?).

3) It's got a 15 round mag along with that 10MM round so if you get attacked by a small village of Amazonian headhunters armed with machetes and spears (like in the beginning of Indiana Jones) then you might just have a chance to mow down alot of them and get away by using your feet to do what nature intended, namely run away. :D

Indiana Jones only had a .38 S&W which is why he just ran instead of shooting, I'd be much better armed.

I'm kidding of course, but I imagine that there are two legged predators in the Amazon as well.

I'd be just as worried about those as I would be about wild animals and tropical diseases.

Nolo
August 26, 2007, 07:14 PM
I voted for the .500 S&W. Why?
Because the Amazon is the only place I can think of where I'd have a good excuse to use it. Plus, it's the only one of those that's as powerful as the Garand that I'd take if I had my druthers.

Sistema1927
August 26, 2007, 08:50 PM
For that situation, and from the choices listed, I would have to go with the S&W 29. However, given my choice, it would probably be a 12 gauge.

hexidismal
August 26, 2007, 09:22 PM
This is simply a choice I'll never have to make.. because I will never.. ever.. go there.

usmccpl
August 26, 2007, 10:49 PM
From those on the list I chose The P95 because I have one and shoot it good. But I would rather have a 4" GP100 cuz if you cant stop a critter with that you should be using a rifle.

CWL
August 28, 2007, 05:24 PM
I've spent plenty of time in jungles although on another continent. .22lr because it's the most useful caliber unless you go to a long-gun. If you need a gun for hostile natives, a pistol ain't going to be enough. The predators will usually leave you alone if you know what you're doing.

Rokman
August 28, 2007, 06:14 PM
I voted G20 for the high capacity although the S&W 44mag would be great for high power and reliability of a revolver.

Vern Humphrey
August 28, 2007, 07:10 PM
I believe I'd choose my 1938 first model Colt Woodsman -- a survival situation is one where you don't have a lot of luxuries. You need to choose what's useful.

MCgunner
August 28, 2007, 08:04 PM
I think a .22 could take care of a big cat if shot in the skull. It'd deter the HELL out of him in the chest cavity. LOL Be kinda nice knowing you have 5oo rounds of .22 in your pack that weighs no more than a box of 10mm. .22s are awesome survival weapons for collecting food, too. Them head hunters got bows or blow guns? I can hit 'em way out of their range.

I'd prefer my 10/22 to a Mk2, but hey, I still think the .22 is a fantastic survival caliber. I killed a LOT of stuff with one as a kid. I ain't gonna admit here what I've seen done with the lowly .22 as a kid. Nope, I saw NOTHING! :D Of course, if you could tip some of those little nasty minimags with some curare, hey, Jags wouldn't have a chance!

Browning
August 29, 2007, 12:47 PM
CWL : If you need a gun for hostile natives, a pistol ain't going to be enough. The predators will usually leave you alone if you know what you're doing.

I'd much rather have a rifle, but it wasn't on the list.

Sometimes a pistol is enough and sometimes it isn't.

It just kind of depends on the situation and how skilled you are with it.

Another thing is WAY more likely with the pistol though, you're WAY more likely to actually have it with you if you run into trouble due to the fact that you can have it on you. Try carrying around a rifle everywhere you go. In some places it's perfectly acceptable (mostly in rural areas), but usually the closer you get to civilization the less acceptable it becomes. A pistol can be concealed so non-gun owners don't freak out, a rifle cannot unless you've got it tucked out of sight in your vehicle.

He would be out in the boondocks so if he were in the US it wouldn't matter legally speaking, but a handgun is much more portable and it lends itself to travel through thick brush very easily while still providing decent firepower if it's chambered in one of the larger cartridges. This is all kind of a moot point as I don't know what the firearms laws are like in Brazil, but I suspect that it doesn't include arming foreigners who take expeditions to the Amazon.

Then again maybe they aren't like that and I'm just viewing Brazil as a Third World Banana Republic because of the TV specials and shows that I've seen on street crime and death squads in the ghettos of Rio De Janero, but I suspect that they are like that and that their government doesn't like people being armed even if they're in the Amazon.

MCgunner
August 29, 2007, 01:15 PM
Well, this survival fun discussion is such that you find yourself in this situation. You have a handgun because it's light and easy and doesn't get in the way of hiking, my take on it anyway. They give pilots in war a handgun for similar reasons. It ain't like they're expecting to do combat, but you take one because you can't fit a rifle in the cockpit, too much bulk. If they have to punch out in enemy territory, a 9mm Baretta is better than a survival knife. I mean, this is why I tote a .357 revolver when I'm backpacking/hiking if I can. I don't want the bulk of a rifle along and I ain't hunting nor expecting to have to, but can feed myself if I find myself in an unexpected situation without resorting to the snares, throwing sticks, bows that break, and make shift fish hooks Bear and Les use. LOL

bestseller92
August 29, 2007, 06:29 PM
LONE STAR: "Your list of guns seems very odd...Do you really have much background with firearms?"

Yes, I do. I intentionally picked an odd list of firearms to make it interesting, though I don't see that the guns on the list are anything truly odd for this scenario.

And since it's hypothetical, we're not worrying about gun laws.

And as a P.S., I'd much prefer my Ruger SP101 over your Smith M60.

Stevie-Ray
August 30, 2007, 11:05 PM
Glock 20

golden
August 30, 2007, 11:18 PM
In the jungle or out in any survival situation, I would much prefer a compact rifle. In the AMAZON, I would go with a stainless steel .44 magnum like the MARLIN 1894. My second choice would be an AK-47 for its proven reliability and anti=personel capability.

Jim

JackCrow
August 31, 2007, 12:47 AM
I voted for the S&W 29 as I prefer revolvers.

Given my own choice I would take a .22lr revolver such as a Taurus 94SS os S&W 617-10.

jpwilly
August 31, 2007, 01:04 AM
Taurus Judge! 45LC is lots of handgun power + a shotgun with 000 or 00 buck in the face of any animal would be quite a deterant or possibly food!

Hunter0924
August 31, 2007, 01:52 AM
Ruger Redhawk .44 magnum.

ryan in maine
August 31, 2007, 07:57 AM
I'd be wanting things like, oh say:
- Remington 870 Marine Magnum with synthetic stock and Electroless nickel plating (http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_870/model_870_marine_magnum.asp)
- Mossberg 500 Tactical with adjustable synthetic stock in Marinecote finish (http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=5&section=products)
- Mossberg 590 Mariner with 9 shots and Marinecote finish (http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=5&section=products)
- Mossberg 4X4 scoped with synthetic stock and Marinecote finish in .30-06 (http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=27&section=products)

Vern Humphrey
August 31, 2007, 10:02 AM
I'd say, visualize using this gun. If you're carring it for defense against a jaguar, and a jaguar never materializes, then it's just a useless hunk of metal you have to hump around. If you carry it for small game hunting, you'll use it every day. And if a jaguar appears, it'll do him, too.

So pick something designed for small game hunting. That's why I'd choose my Colt Woodsman.

ryan in maine
August 31, 2007, 05:24 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't think a .22 LR is going to kill a jaguar?

1). If a jaguar attacks you then you probably wont see it coming.
2). A handgun cannot be used to put space between you and the jaguar.
3). Jaguars are extremely powerful.

Vern Humphrey
August 31, 2007, 05:31 PM
If you don't see it coming, how will any gun be of use to you?

But I suspect in any real survival situation, your odds of dying from starvation will be much higher than your odds of being attacked by a jaguar.

ryan in maine
August 31, 2007, 05:50 PM
Well, with a long gun you can use it to shield yourself to some degree and can swing it like a club if need be.

I agree starvation is a higher concern than jaguars. That's why 3 of my choices listed were rust-resistant shotguns (I had to throw a scoped rifle in there just because). I went with shotguns since I would assume your primary source of nutrition would be birds. I also made sure they were rust-resistant, because even stainless steel will readily rust in the Amazon. Having a critical internal part rust out would make a firearm useless as well.

I thought of taking along a .22 LR rifle but I'm just not sure if I'd want to depend on it. There is always the possibility of jaguars and other humans. I'd want a better option, is all.

Not knocking anyone who wants to take a .22 LR. I just don't think it would kill a jaguar is all. Even with a clean shot. We're talking about a big cat that can carry a 600 lbs animal across a river and then drag it up a tree. A big cat that can crack turtle shells and skulls with a single bite. It's tough!

Vern Humphrey
August 31, 2007, 05:54 PM
I choose a .22 handgun because I know I can shoot it well enough to keep myself fed, and because every ounce you save in one department is an extra ounce you can add in another.

ryan in maine
August 31, 2007, 05:55 PM
Do you think birds would be your primary source of nutrition as well?

Zen21Tao
August 31, 2007, 11:47 PM
I would take the Glock 20 or 29. I reload my own 10mm and know that full powder loads are ballistically close to 44 mag. Also, as other's have said, the Glock will be better resistant to the elements. Also, its larger bullet capacity could be the difference between life and death if facing multiple predators. In fact, I would also have some 29 round Scherer magazines handy for just such a situation.

bestseller92
September 1, 2007, 08:31 AM
The GLOCK 20 could certainly be used to harvest small game.

Gustav
September 1, 2007, 12:20 PM
I would go with one of the two Glocks mentioned light weight easy to use high magazine capacity its good for small game (albiet a little too much power) and large critters with little chance of rusting or jamming.
The 10mm is more than enough for anything one would encounter and under the strain and stress of an actual attack those extra rounds in the magazine may make a difference that and the constant short & light trigger pull with the quick trigger reset would win over any DA revolver for aimed fast on target shooting and higher hit probability.
The .22 MAY be enough for 95% of what you come across but with my luck I would only be a fugitive from the law of averages for a short time before the other 5% would find me.
If possible a .22 conversion kit for the Glock would find its way into the bag or pack with a brick or two of ammunition.:evil:

Vern Humphrey
September 1, 2007, 12:36 PM
The problem is, when game is present, and you have the 10mm conversion on the gun, the game escapes while you switch to .22. And if you have the .22 conversion and the jaguar appears . . .

Eyesac
September 1, 2007, 02:03 PM
"Your list of guns seems very odd...Do you really have much background with firearms?" Jeeze. What a sweetheart.

I voted for G20. Great capacity, great round, great reliablilty. Lets face it the 44mag is a better round, but carring a pistol is a compromise to begin with, and 10MM is a great choice seeing as how you can carry 15rds.

obxned
September 1, 2007, 04:58 PM
What, no .357???? It will kill a jaguar, but will also do for small game gathering.

bestseller92
September 1, 2007, 05:48 PM
I inadvertently omitted the .357 revolver, which is one of my favorite handguns. I'd go with a GP 100.

Michael_2112
September 1, 2007, 06:34 PM
I'm with the group who says, "Why not a rifle"?

I think the Amazon environment and the AK seem to fit the bill pretty well.

7.62x39 should be an excellent round to take care of all those bumps in the night and the dreaded the Jaguar... Plus, it's a fairly feasible medium game cartridge.

I know that a handgun is less cumbersome... but for some reason, I think I would sleep just a little better at night with the rifle.

From the list of handguns... I guess I would pick the model 29.

Mike

rbernie
September 1, 2007, 10:33 PM
I choose a .22 handgun because I know I can shoot it well enough to keep myself fed, and because every ounce you save in one department is an extra ounce you can add in another.Vern - you're thinkin' like a guy who's actually been outdoors and carried his life around with him on his back and in his hands. Most folks haven't had the luxury of that experience. ;)

roscoe
September 2, 2007, 03:22 AM
But I suspect in any real survival situation, your odds of dying from starvation will be much higher than your odds of being attacked by a jaguar.
Thank god - a breath of informed air. Think how much more .22 ammo you could carry than 10mm. People are talking about hunting small game with a .357 - you might find a scrap of monkey after blasting it with 158 grains.

There are several hundred thousand Brazilians/Peruvians/Bolivians living in the Amazon, and how many do you think get killed by jaguar? Anyways, if a jaguar wants you, you probably won't even see it coming. East Africa, with lions, well, that would be different, but jaguars are not big predators of humans.

Don't worry, though, if a jaguar gets you, it'll be quick. They have special nerves in their gums so when they get your neck in their jaws, they can feel the vertebrae and bite between them. It will be over before you know it.

bestseller92
September 2, 2007, 04:38 AM
I've hunted rabbits many times with 125 grain .357 JHPs, and it's an excellent round for this purpose.

TWBryan
September 2, 2007, 08:31 AM
None of the above. Ruger GP100 stainless six-inch barrel. Use .38 spl's for small game. Use hard-cast .357's for jaguars,tapirs,caimans, and 110 foot man-eatin' anaconda's :p. I'll hang onto the spear for poking at stuff I don't want to get close to,or taking out the jaguars.It worked for Sasha Siemal.

TWBryan

guy sajer
September 2, 2007, 01:54 PM
I look at it mainly as a food getter . Monkey , birds , snakes , etc . As he quickly found out , lack of food was a major issue (and of course , safe drinking water ... gun won't help there ) .

From the list , I'd choose the 3" stainless Taurus 4410 . 45 Colt , 410 slug , 410 shot . The shot shell would put meat on the table .

As mentioned , a 4" stainless 357 would be a good choice too . 357 load , 38 spl or 38 shot for small game .

FLORIDA KEVIN
September 2, 2007, 02:22 PM
I picked the ruger in 9 mm first , because I don't think jaguar is that hard to kill and the 9 mm has decent capacity . my second choice would be the .22 only because it would take a head shot to immediatly stop a jaguar ! as was allready mentioned if you were Hunitng the Jag you would tree it with dogs and put a .22 in the lungs !

Vern Humphrey
September 2, 2007, 02:32 PM
Vern - you're thinkin' like a guy who's actually been outdoors and carried his life around with him on his back and in his hands. Most folks haven't had the luxury of that experience.
Experience, they say, comes from making mistakes. Nobody has more experience than I do.:D

FLORIDA KEVIN
September 2, 2007, 02:47 PM
lol Vern !!Experience, they say, comes from making mistakes. Nobody has more experience than I do.

if thats true i am well on my way to expert !!:D

molonlabetn
September 2, 2007, 02:47 PM
Serbu Shorty 12ga.

vynx
September 6, 2007, 09:10 PM
I think anything but the .22 would be ok.

I chose the Glock 29 but thats for the weight more than anything.

You may not need it but I know I'd sleep better with a larger round if there was Jaguar around - they are not a North American Cougar they are much tougher from what I have read & seen.

telomerase
September 8, 2007, 11:48 PM
IIRC jaguars kill fewer people than deer do (in fact, I think jaguars don't even kill one person per year)... animals that first met people WITH SPEARS quickly became afraid of us. (African animals knew us before we made it big... they don't respect us at all except as appetizers).

If you fire a .44 your ears will ring for the next seven days... not good for survival. I'd go with the .22 (although if I had a choice I'd pick a lighter model); you might actually hit some game with it.

skeeter1
September 9, 2007, 12:12 AM
S&W Model 29. If it's good enough for Dirty Harry, its good enough for me.

Regolith
September 9, 2007, 01:37 AM
The biggest problem with choosing just one gun is very few cartridges work well on the range of creatures you may be shooting.

Personally, if weight/storage was an issue, and I needed to choose a gun to do everything, I'd choose two (2) revolvers: one in either .44 Mag or .357 mag, and one in .22LR. This would allow you to take anything from squirrel and rabbit up to deer.

If strorage and weight weren't so much of an issue, I'd take a .22LR revolver (for smaller game) and a 12 gauge shotgun with an assortment of birdshot, buckshot, and slugs.

MCgunner
September 9, 2007, 12:49 PM
In a survival situation, with a good, accurate .22, I can kill a deer no problem. .22s, no doubt, have killed many times more deer than has a .44 magnum and .357 magnum put together. Of course, most of 'em were shot with rifles. I could still take one inside 50 yards with my .22 Contender and inside 25 wouldn't be a problem with my little .22 kit gun. In a survival situation, game laws are made to be broken.

kid_couteau
September 9, 2007, 01:55 PM
Hi All

From the list it would be a 44 mag revolver

I could use shot loads for small game

But my choice would be a Remington 870 in 20 gauge or Mossberg 500 in 20 gauge

Slugs should stop a jaguar

Shot for food

Marine coat finish

Kid

jcord
September 9, 2007, 02:32 PM
Having spent time in a triple canopy jungle, I would choose an M6 scout.

A 410 would handle the cat and would also help in gathering food. Most of the game will be in the trees. The foilage is so thick that spotting somthing, then hitting it with a hand gun will be extremely difficult. Anything that fires shot increases your chances of eating. Being eaten by a Jaguar is not much of a danger and was played up in the show to make a better show.

Vern Humphrey
September 9, 2007, 03:43 PM
IIRC jaguars kill fewer people than deer do (in fact, I think jaguars don't even kill one person per year)... animals that first met people WITH SPEARS quickly became afraid of us. (African animals knew us before we made it big... they don't respect us at all except as appetizers).

I happen to know a gentleman (He's the current Attorney General of the State of Arkansas) who refused an invitation to go turkey hunting on my place because he's afraid of snakes.

If you take counsel of your fears, you miss out on a lot of good things in life. So I'd carry my Colt Woodsman, and if a Jaguar did come around, a long, sharp stick would protect me adequately.

FerFAL
September 9, 2007, 06:34 PM
Amazon? A good 4 inch 357 magnum/38 Special. 44 mangum is a bit too much for what you may face there in terms of animals, besides 44 mangum is much harder to find. I'd worry more about the 2 legged varmint, drug dealers, "mules", aggresive native folk, so a nice 9mm or 45 ACP would be better.

FerFAL

Hauptmann
September 9, 2007, 06:41 PM
Not sure about Jaguars, but I have lived and worked in grizzly country for years and I'd say a grizz represents a higher level of threat than a loner big cat based on bear reports. Humans are so rarely attacked by wild animals that if you know your enviroment and how to discourage predators you'll be just fine. A human is the greatest threat that you will ever face in the great outdoors.

That being said, I'll take my Ruger MKIII Hunter .22lr for the utility needs of survival. It can also very nicely discourage hostile humans.

telomerase
September 9, 2007, 06:50 PM
I happen to know a gentleman (He's the current Attorney General of the State of Arkansas) who refused an invitation to go turkey hunting on my place because he's afraid of snakes.

Jaguars may not bite many people per year... but what are the stats on those Ozark rattlesnakes :D?

There's lots of Bushmasters in the Amazon, too... but it doesn't matter what kind of pistol you're wearing when they bite you.

Vern Humphrey
September 9, 2007, 06:58 PM
Jaguars may not bite many people per year... but what are the stats on those Ozark rattlesnakes
I don't know, but if he sits down on one, he'll need a better friend than me to suck out the poison.

Off the record -- my farrier was bitten by a copperhead in his barn. About six months earlier, his wife was bitten by a copperhead in the same barn.

critrxdoc
September 9, 2007, 09:00 PM
Since there is no need to conceal, the G-20 should be fine. I would want all the power I could carry with multiple rounds at disposal. That makes the 10mm the front runner for me.

countryrebel
September 16, 2007, 05:16 PM
I choose the Glock 20 because thats what I carry when I am hiking,next in line would be the 44mag,placed it second only because it is heavy.

gipperdog
September 19, 2007, 02:52 PM
I'd use the 10mm with my handloads. I'd use 180 gr Speer Gold Dots pushed pretty hard. That with at least two extra mags, I'd feel safer.

M92FS
September 19, 2007, 03:22 PM
I chosen Ruger KP95 9mm. I don't have very strong arms, so I will stick with the 9mm. :)

I think the 10mm selections will be very popular compare with S&W .500. :)

but if I got a choice, I will take a 12 gauge pump or AR-15 instead of the 9mm. :)

rcmodel
September 19, 2007, 03:41 PM
None of my choices are on the poll.
A home-grown copy of the Winchester 92 44-40 carbine, or a single-shot 12 ga. has been the two favorite all-round guns of the locals there for many many moons.

You'd think they know what works best by now.
(But they live there and don't have to carry all their ammo on them.)

Myself, I'd probably take a stainless Mini-14, or better yet, a 62A Winchester, or a stainless 10/22 Ruger. (high mounted sights on an AR makes hitting close-range snakes fast problematic!)

Handgun?
Probably a pre-war Colt Woodsman, or a stainless MKIII Ruger.
(You can only carry so much ammo on foot, so the .223 / .22LR makes sense.)

I don't think Jaguar attacks are much of an issue!
Poisonous Snakes, now that's another story!

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

cpttango30
September 19, 2007, 04:03 PM
I want something simple easy to take care of doesn't rust. So I would go with the smith 44mag or the newer smith 500 with a 4" barrel. I don't care about having 5, 6 or 30 rounds. If you are fighting something that you needed to fend off like a jag I want something that is going to put it down quich fast and in a hurry. If something is trying to eat you you better kill it first and fast. Plus Like a friend always says you can't kill somthing too much.

rcmodel
September 19, 2007, 04:18 PM
No, but you could shoot it 8 times with a .45 ACP while you are recovering from the recoil of one round of .500 S&W.

And at night in the jungle, you won't be seeing or hearing any Jaguars for quite some time after the .500 S&W muzzle blast makes you deaf and wipes out your night vision with the first shot.

There is a lot more to killing something that attacks you then pure Unmitigated, Unmanageable, Power.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

Vern Humphrey
September 19, 2007, 04:40 PM
Handgun?
Probably a pre-war Colt Woodsman, or a stainless MKIII Ruger.
My choice exactly.

I wonder if those who suggest things like shotguns, .45 Colt/.410 shotgun combinations have ever humped those things through 95-degree heat and 95% humidity, day after day?

rcmodel
September 19, 2007, 04:49 PM
And enough ammo to keep'em runnin!

Probably not!
But it sounds like you have!
;)

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

RustyHammer
September 19, 2007, 05:32 PM
DB Shotgun with a varity of shells & slugs.

lanternlad1
September 19, 2007, 06:39 PM
I chose the Glock 20mm, But I think I would really rather have a GP-100 6" and a Marlin 1895 in 357 mag. Only 1 caliber to carry, and can take out most anything. I don't shoot .44s well, but I'm good with 357 mag.

Elm Creek Smith
September 19, 2007, 10:19 PM
Of your choices, the Glock 20. I'd prefer a .357 Magnum if I was stuck with a handgun.

Savage Scout Rifle w/LER scope in .243 if I couldn't have a .308. Light handloads for small game. Good premium ammo for large game and two legged critters. Just the right scenario for the Scout.

ECS

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