August 20, 2007, 05:23 PM
From another gun board.
Just bought my second EAA Witness Full-Size in .40 S&W. I decided to get a second one for all the reasons you might imagine, especially being able to use the same mags.
Well "Surprise, surprise, surprise!" They don't use the same mags!
The newer one is marked almost exactly the same (C.9337 instead of CAT 9337) except that it says EAA - ROCKLEDGE - FLA instead of EAA - COCOA - FLA. And the mag on the new one is a hair over 34mm thick and a hair over 21mm wide, while the older ones are a hair under 32mm thick a hair over 20mm wide. Just enough of a difference that the new mag won't fit in the old gun and the old mages won't stay in the new gun.
Well I just talked to them: apparently in 2005 they redesigned the frame (nothing to do with the purchase of EAA by Remington she assured me). The girl in sales didn't know why they kept the same name [ed. - marketing]. The upshot is caveat emptor, to say nothing of 'never assume - just because it has the same name doesn't mean it is the same'.
August 20, 2007, 05:25 PM
What do you mean "made by Remington"?
Furthermore, why would anyone buy a CZ copy when the real thing is sold at a good price? Never did understand that.
August 20, 2007, 05:41 PM
Are you talking about Witness-P or steel framed guns?
There have been a lot of minor variations in Witness mags over the years in the Polymer guns leading to much confusion as to what works and doesn't.
Mags you buy from EAA come with a disclaimer basically saying hope it works, if not bummer.
As to why buy an EAA? They make the CZ clone in .45ACP and 10mm whereas CZ doesn't. While the CZ 97 is a nice .45, the EAA .45 version fits my hand better.
I've an EAA .40S&W compact Witness-P that uses the "long" magazine and its the worst jam-o-matic I've ever encountered. Basically I've thrown in the towel and ordered a compact .45 upper for it -- although conversion kits aren't available for the the Witness-P I've put my full size steel frame .45 upper on the polymer compact frame and other than not having matching contours at the rear of the slide it functioned 100%. The root of the problem I believe is the mags are too long for the short .40S&W round basically being sized for a 10mm or .45 round and the shorter .40 just doesn't stay put under recoil causing feed failures.
August 20, 2007, 05:44 PM
What do you mean "made by Remington"?
+1. EAA's website makes no mention of Remington, nor does Remington's make mention of EAA. Remington was recently purchased by Cerberus Capital, the owner of Bushmaster and Chrysler Automotive.
August 20, 2007, 06:09 PM
Remington did not buy EAA; when the EAA agreement with Izmash expired, the Russians cut a better deal with Remington to import their Baikal shotguns than they had with EAA. A change of importers is pretty common with foreign gun makers; several brands have had a half dozen importers over the years, one of the reasons parts for many foreign guns are hard to obtain.
The Remington deal affected only Baikal shotguns, not any of the other EAA lines.
August 20, 2007, 07:42 PM
Based on the misinformation regarding EAA in the email you received, that should set off alarm bells. Witness pistols have always had at least two mag sizes, steel frame and polymer frame. Then they added the large frame gun several years ago which has yet another frame size. I've never had a problem, ordered mags twice, one for a Witness PS, once for a Elite Match. Both times the lady taking the order asked me in detail how the pistols were marked and both times received the correct mags.
I buy Witnesses because they inevitably have better triggers than a CZ, for a lower price. There really is no comparison between my cheap Witness PS and my CZ75B, the Witness trigger is both lighter and crisper in DA or SA mode. And the trigger on the Elite Match is a wonder to pull.
August 21, 2007, 03:42 AM
Then they added the large frame gun several years ago which has yet another frame size.
Aren't the large frame guns in 9mm & 40 S&W made on the 45 ACP/10mm frame, but with higher capacity than standard frame guns because of the wider (and longer?) mag well? Perhaps the problem the gentleman quoted in the original post is having is that he's trying to interchange large & small frame guns/mags.