Desert Eagle:Why not more?


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Bondo_Red
August 20, 2007, 05:58 PM
The Desert Eagle is a pain in the butt to carry,expensive,and as is has few practical uses.However,the desert eagle (reportedly) has a few upsides,such as accuracy and range.What I wonder is why IMI doesn't make a new,practical desert eagle.Make it a lil smaller,change the cartridge to 10 mm or similar round,take off some of the extra weight.I am by no means an expert on gun building,but It seems like with today's technology we could fix the reliability problems.There is probably an easy explanation for this,but I don't know it.and just in case any of you aren't familiar with the "baby eagle" On the inside it is NOTHING like the desert eagle.It doesn't really even look that much like it.

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Shear_stress
August 20, 2007, 06:36 PM
Interesting question. I'd wager it's probably because it would not be worth scaling down the complex action when you could just use the tried and true Browning design.

CWL
August 20, 2007, 06:55 PM
The Baby Eagle isn't a small version of the DE, it is a marketing name for the Isreali Jericho pistol -which is a design rip-off of the CZ-75 pistol.

The Desert Eagle is an American-designed pistol. IMI is only the licensed manufacturer. It was originally designed in .357 caliber. It was and still is designed as a large bore handgun for hunting purposes. The fact that the DE frame is interchangeable for all its calibers makes this a popular hunting and target pistol. Have you ever handled or fired one? How do you know it is unreliable?

You should not confuse Hollywood's mistaken crap that this is a carry pistol useful for combat with the real purpose behind its design.

Bondo_Red
August 20, 2007, 07:48 PM
I know all about the baby eagle becoming a renamed jericho for marketing.And no I haven't fired a Desert Eagle,but all you ever hear when someone says they own a desert eagle is "LOL,that thing is so unreliable!Just get a revolver"

Rembrandt
August 20, 2007, 08:06 PM
....And no I haven't fired a Desert Eagle,but all you ever hear when someone says they own a desert eagle is "LOL,that thing is so unreliable!Just get a revolver"

If all you ever hear is how unreliable they are, you obviously don't get out much. Do yourself a favor and check out some owners who know what they're talking about. http://p088.ezboard.com/bthedeserteagle

whm1974
August 21, 2007, 05:46 PM
When I was a kid in the 80's a few of my buddies relations brought them when they came out.

As it turns out, the .357 and .44 mag DE are picky(at least then) about what you load into them. Lead bullets will foul the gas port very quickly, and low power rounds don't work very well.

At the time I thought that a .357 revolver beats the .357 DE hands down. Come to think of it, I still think that.

-Bill

pumpedTSI
August 21, 2007, 11:43 PM
I have a 9mm baby eagle in chrome.........yep, its a little heavy BUT its my most accurate pistol and TOTALLY reliable..........love this pistol.......

Sonic
August 22, 2007, 03:25 AM
........Lead bullets will foul the gas port very quickly, and low power rounds don't work very well......

I don't think either of these are really legitimate criticisms of the Desert Eagle. The Desert Eagle was designed with a gas operated mechanism with rotating bolt lockup, the basic soundness of which has been proven in countless semi-auto rifles that use virtually the same design concept. Yes, one of the tradeoffs of this design is that you can't use bullets with an exposed lead base because it fouls the gas port and tube, but in favor of the gas operated design it is extremely strong and enables a fixed barrel to be used, giving increased accuracy and making scope mounting very easy when compared to a recoil operated pistol. Furthermore, lead bullets can in fact be used in a Desert Eagle as long as they have a lead gas check (incidentally, there are many revolver shooters who shoot lead bullets that use gas checked lead bullets exclusively, to prevent leading of their revolver's barrel).

As for criticizing the Desert Eagle (which was designed specifically to handle full house magnum loads) because it won't cycle with lower powered loads, this makes about as much sense as criticizing a semi-auto shotgun (most of which are designed for magnum 2-3/4" and/or magnum 3" loads) because it won't cyle properly with light skeet loads. Well of course they don't cycle, they are auto-loaders designed for magnum loads, and when you use ammo that has only about two-thirds or half the propellant charge, failure to cycle is virtually inevitable, so what? If you want a handgun that will work with virtually any ammo regardless of power level, get a revolver. Just like a shotgunner who wants to be able to shoot both magnum and light skeet loads would get a pump-action shotgun, not an auto-loader.

The Desert Eagle can't work with as wide a variety of ammo as a revolver, but it was never intended to directly compete with revolvers in this regard. The Desert Eagle is a more specialized design that makes shooting full power magnum loads much easier on a shooter than a revolver does, which among magnum handguns is definitely a very useful niche to fill.

HisDivineShadow
August 22, 2007, 08:27 AM
As a beagle owner I think it's pretty much you are looking for. .41AE was a 10mm (10.4) cartridge but .40SW killed it. On all 9mm beagles you can change out the barrel and it'll work with .41AE. Ofcourse conversion kits are rare and ammo equally so. It's a dead round.

Beagle = baby eagle ;)

MachIVshooter
August 22, 2007, 01:56 PM
I'd wager it's probably because it would not be worth scaling down the complex action when you could just use the tried and true Browning design.

That'd be correct. There's just no need for a gas-operated system with standard pistol cartridges. The reason they use gas for the big DE becomes quite appearent when one fires a recoil operated .50 AE pistol like the AMT Automag V or LAR Grizzly Mk V.

And no I haven't fired a Desert Eagle,but all you ever hear when someone says they own a desert eagle is "LOL,that thing is so unreliable!Just get a revolver"

I've had no reliability issues with mine.

CWL
August 22, 2007, 05:10 PM
There's just no need for a gas-operated system with standard pistol cartridges.

I don't know if there is a "need", but there are other gas-operated pistols. The H&K P7 family of pistols quickly comes to mind.

Devonai
August 22, 2007, 06:04 PM
-which is a design rip-off of the CZ-75 pistol.

I was under the impression that IMI produced the Jericho/BE under license.

MachIVshooter
August 22, 2007, 06:56 PM
there are other gas-operated pistols. The H&K P7 family of pistols quickly comes to mind.

Gas delayed blowback is a completely different operating system. The two are about as different as piston vs. rotary engines.

Sonic
August 22, 2007, 07:42 PM
I was under the impression that IMI produced the Jericho/BE under license.


No one needs to get a license from CZ to make a CZ-75 clone. Back when the CZ-75 was first introduced, for some inexplicable reason CZ only applied for patents on it in its home country of what was then Czechoslovakia (which is now the separate countries of the Czech Republic and Slovakia), and never applied for any international patent protection. So from the very beginning anyone based outside of Czechoslovakia could legally just start making their own CZ-75s, without having to negotiate with CZ for a license or even pay any royalties, and several companies did. The biggest producer of CZ-75 clones is Tanfoglio in Italy, who often also supplied unfinished parts for other CZ-75 clone makers, like IMI (now IWI) in Israel for the Jericho/Baby Eagle pistol (I think IWI now makes all the parts themselves, though I am not certain).

Of course other pistol designs like the 1911 or Browning HP can also be made by anyone without having to negotiate a license, but in the case of these pistols it isn't because patents weren't filed, its that the original patents have just long since expired.

Devonai
August 23, 2007, 12:39 AM
Thanks for the info!

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