[Hawk]

I recently bought an old Anaconda that I suspected was striking light. I prime a couple dozen cases and, sure enough, I'm getting less than 50% ignition in double action.

I decide it would be interesting to see how it did with factory ammo. Lo and behold, it runs 100% - some single action, mostly double and the primer strikes look good as opposed to the "barely touched" version on the home primed cases.

Never had an issue with handload ignition before.

What was new:
New Starline brass in .44 mag.
New lot of Winchester LP primers.
My very first time with a hand primer gizmo - Hornady, if it matters.

The only thing that appears visually amiss is that the primers might be too recessed. I can't tell for sure but they look to be more than .005 below the case. Is it possible to "overseat" / crush a primer without detonating the thing?

Anybody heard of this before?

[Bad Flynch]

>Is it possible to "overseat" / crush a primer without detonating the thing?<

Yes. It is also possible that, given manufacturing tolerances, you have a box of short primers and a batch of cases with deep primer pockets. Do a little investigating.

You can try another brand of primers, like Federal that are solfter, too.

[The Bushmaster]

"is it possible to overseat/crush a primer...." It is possible, but unlikely that the primer pockets are too deep. Crush a primer without detinationg it? Yes...I do it all the time. Upside down, sideways and crushed beyond recognition and have never set one off. It takes a SUDDEN hard blow to set one off. I would look at "not seated deep enough" before I would look for other reasons of not setting off the primer. Next time try a second strike of the hammer. If it goes off on the second try...It wasn't seated all the way. I have seated primers where I actually crushed them deeper and they still go off. Primers, contrary to popular belief, are quite indistructable unless you set one off...Then, of course, they are done for...:D

[LHB1]

"My very first time with a hand primer gizmo - Hornady, if it matters."
Hawk,
Sounds like a possible case of over seating or under seating primers. Either one could cause failures with reloads. IME, you want to seat the primers to bottom of primer pocket but without crushing them.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

[Ghost Walker]

And let's not forget that of all the different brands, Winchester makes the hardest primers to ignite! (Give CCI a try and let us know what happens.) ;)





Bushmaster, apparently you've never been there when a primer tube has gone off! There's a good reason why primer magazines are almost as thick as 22 rifle barrels. :eek:

[LiquidTension]

I had the exact same thing happen with my first batch of .44mag through my Redhawk. The primers weren't seated in deep enough. They'd always go off on the second strike. That was the last time I used the press to prime cases instead of my Lee Autoprime.

[Hawk]

Second striking didn't generally have an effect although it would wake one up every once in awhile.

I'll try some more without acting like the Hornady primer was gymnasium equipment. I never felt the thing "seat" so just bore down on it. They're noticably more recessed than the factory rounds. I thought I'd read here that one couldn't "over seat" a primer but I believe that was in the context of the Lee hand primer which might be constructed a bit differently than the Hornady.

[The Bushmaster]

Ghost Walker...Yer right...I haven't...I use a Lee Auto Prime II on a single stage press...Over twenty years of reloading and no primer detinations...Not one. I use CCI, Winchester and Remington primers...On occasion I have used Federals too...

[Hawk]

And let's not forget that of all the different brands, Winchester makes the hardest primers to ignite!

My ranking of "primer ignition resistance" wasn't particularly scientific. I downloaded the Lee hand primer manual and assumed the primer they didn't permit (Federal) would be the easiest to light off, the one they liked (CCI) would be the hardest and the others would fall into place based on the total number permitted in the primer magazine.

Doesn't work that way?

[Pumpkinheaver]

Sounds like you might have crushed the pellet of explosive in your primers. Never done it myself but have seen it done.

[john1911]

Any chance the primes were bad?

[Jim Watson]

Check the firing pin protrusion and spring tension.
Is the firing pin all the way to the rear with the head exposed to the hammer?
Is there appreciable spring tension holding it there?
Can you push it forward against the firing pin spring and get about 1/16" protrusion?

[When shooting my Python a lot for PPC, I crushed a couple of firing pin springs such that the firing pin was not held back in position to be hit hard by the hammer. Misfires resulted.
I have seen soft 1911 firing pins that were beat down to where they did not have enough head to be driven forward.
I have seen firing pins in some guns broken to where the pieces did not fall out and would shoot part of the time.]

(Factory loads with primers firmly seated to the bottom of the pockets in virgin brass have a lot better chance of firing if something is out of whack.)

[Doug b]

Hawk I had issues with my Hornady priming tool , till I staked the pins to keep them from walking out.This is a very good tool with outstanding feel when the pins are in place.The main culprit in my case was the bottom pin that is hidden by your hand.

[Master Blaster]

I had the exact same thing happen with my first batch of .44mag through my Redhawk. The primers weren't seated in deep enough. They'd always go off on the second strike. That was the last time I used the press to prime cases instead of my Lee Autoprime.


I have found that for some reason its harder to seat large pistol primers in .44 mag cases than in other calibers like .45 acp. I had a problem with light strikes in my .44 mag revolver when I first started reloading .44 mag. I finally figured out that The first blow was seating the primer all the way, and the second time I pulled the trigger they would always fire.

I load on a Dilon 550, and a Hornady LNL press, The shell plate bolt needs to be turned in more for .44mag than for other calibers, where you can allow more play. These presses prime on the forward stroke of the handle and the shell plate height is what stops the case and lets the primer seating plunger do its job. If the Shell plate isn't down close. high not fully seated primers are the result, and misfires are guaranteed.

[Hutch]

Another thing... when you tested it and got 50% FTF, I presume you loaded empty cases in the gun? One possible cause of the problem being worse with empty cases is that there is ~1/2 oz. less weight of cartridge. There is a lot of movement back and forth between the frame and cylinder by the cartridge during the ignition process. Some folks opine that the primer is bulged out by pressure, only to be "reseated" as the cartridge case travels to the rear under recoil impulse. I don't mean to say that the no-bullet test is invalid, but it would sure amplify any weakness in ignition system.

[Hawk]

...and a few more observations for the gurus to work with.

Ran another 50 rounds of factory loads through it today - again runs 100%.

Brought out the Hornady hand primer, the WLPs and Starline and primed up 12 otherwise empty cases. 100% ignition BUT I'm getting cylinder bind. Big time cylinder bind. I fight my way through all 12 with good ignition but sorry operation. No primers are above flush with the case. Whatever is causing the bind is not visually obvious.

I wonder if it's the Starline (the .44 is new to me). I toss in 6 empties - no primer, no nothing, into the Anaconda and it cycles fine. It appears a fat rim isn't the issue.

So, it appears I was over-seating the primers before but what's up with the bind? It's horrible.

Hutch gives me some hope - does running primed cases less powder and bullets actually lead to problems?

Anyhow, in the last two days, 100 rounds of mixed UMC yellow box and Magtech have gone through without a hitch but I can't get a cylinder-full of primed empties to work. The ignition problem is gone but the bind makes the enterprise unworkable.

What makes this particularly vexing is that I've had no issues with several thousand rounds through the progressives (not .44) but have yet to produce a single functional round with my new single stage - 'course I haven't yet dropped powder, seated or crimped a bullet. I can't for the life of me cipher why "primed only" cases don't work so I'm disinclined to work up "real" loads that I'll only have to dismantle.

Should I just load up a dozen and see what gives?

[LHB1]

Hawk,
Cylinder bind could be caused by firing primed cases only. When you fire a primed case, it can push the case backward and bind against the rear wall of revolver. When you fire a normal round, the pressure swells case and it doesn't set back. Try loading some rounds with new primer seating technique and with powder/bullet. See if the problem goes away.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB