Shooting Wolf Ammo in my AR. Trouble?


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Cougfan2
August 21, 2007, 06:39 PM
I just got a new Cabela's catalog and the least expensive .223 ammo they have is some Wolf that is about $200.00 pre 1,000. It is probably steel case and they say it has their "new polymer coating". Is this the same stuff they sold that was lacquer coated? I've never shot it, but I've heard some AR users say it really gummed up their chambers because of the lacquer melting.

Your thoughts, AR afficiandos?

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Jorg Nysgerrig
August 21, 2007, 06:46 PM
It's definately steel cased.

The polymer is different than the old lacquer and supposedly not as "gummy" as the old stuff.

A lot of folks will tell you that the steel stuff is harder on the extractors and other parts. They'll mention that it is inconsistantly loaded, is dirty as hell, and will make your AR shoot like a Mini-14.

On the other hand, if you compare it to other ammo at $350/1000, you can easily pay for a new upper in 4,000-5,000 rounds with the money you saved. If something smaller breaks, it's even a better deal.

In the end, it's kind of up to you. If you shoot lots but aren't terribly adverse to cleaning, don't need the best accuracy, and consistancy, and don'tmind the idea of replacing parts, you can save a some money. On the other hand, TANSTAAFL.

Just my $.02

dmrodco
August 21, 2007, 06:56 PM
this has been hashed out time and again on may fourms the coating has nothing to do with anything. the steel cases do not expand like brass and therefore do not repeat do not seal the chamber. this allows the gases to flow back into the chamber a viola you have gummy CARBON build up very fast. keep it clean and shoot the crap outta the ammo. do not however mix brass and steel ammo it will seize the brass in the carbon filled chamber. clean before shooting brass again. see ya

Cougfan2
August 21, 2007, 07:01 PM
this has been hashed out time and again on may fourms the coating has nothing to do with anything.

Sorry to have asked, but it was a new issue for me.

coyote_jr
August 21, 2007, 07:04 PM
Trouble? You're darn right you gots trouble boy....the Moderator kind. You best take this here kind of question down to Rifle Country or you will be in a world of trouble:evil:

W.E.G.
August 21, 2007, 07:07 PM
The simple fact of the matter is it works in some rifles, and not in others.

Chrome-lined barrels seem to offer some advantage, but no guarantee of success.

I recommend that you get three magazines worth of the stuff. Fire it all rapidly. If you have ZERO malfunctions, you are one of the lucky ones.

I've had terrible results with the both varieties (lacquer and polymer) in my sample of two rifles. The cases stick in the chamber -- then the extractor rips the rim off the case -- then I have to beat the stuck case out of the chamber with a cleaning rod.
Not my idea of a fun time.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/wolf5.jpg http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/wolf3.jpg http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/wolf4.jpg http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/wolf2.jpg http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/wolf1.jpg

Bazooka Joe71
August 21, 2007, 07:13 PM
The only reason I don't buy it is because its not reloadable.

They say it will wear out your extractor, but those are cheap and if you shoot alot you can buy as many extractors as you want. As it was said before, wolf has a polymer coat on them now and they don't seem to gum up my ar at all. I really never cared, because I don't mind cleaning my guns...Actually its kind of sick how much I like it.:evil:

But take that with a grain of salt, because I only shot about 500 rds through my AR before I decided to start collecting my brass and reloading.

Oh yeah, and this is definately a topic for Rifle Country. I'm sure a mod will be along shortly, or you can PM one to transfer this thread over there.

W.E.G.
August 21, 2007, 07:13 PM
I should also mention that my WASR-3 (Kalashnikov-type rifle) seems to tolerate Wolf .223. It occasionally does not eject completely. But, so far, it has not seized-up in the WASR-3 chamber. The WASR-3 has a chrome-lined bore.

DoubleTapDrew
August 21, 2007, 07:34 PM
Buy a few boxes and make sure it works. I haven't encountered any problems in several thousand rounds in my AR.
It's the best deal out there (if you can call $200 for 1000 rounds a deal). BTW sportsmans guide has it for $190/$180 for club members so compare shipping between the two and go with whichever is cheaper.

Bartholomew Roberts
August 21, 2007, 08:22 PM
One important key to testing Wolf is to run it in a very hot rifle. I did a course with a guy who had no trouble shooting Wolf in his chrome-lined Bushmaster - until the rifle got hot. Once it got hot, it started doing what W.E.G. describes. The hotter it got, the more it malfunctioned.

He would clean out the chamber (and CHUNKS of carbon were falling out - stuff so big I thought it was a broken lug off the bolt) and it would run for another 100rds before starting to repeat the whole process.

It is probably fine for cheap plinking and some rifles may be OK with it for training; but this was a 5.56 NATO chrome-lined chamber that was choking on it, so I'm not sure how you would know whether you are lucky short of just trying it out.

cracked butt
August 21, 2007, 08:28 PM
You get what you pay for: I use wolf in my cheap combloc guns- its cheap for plinking and making noise, but I didn't buy my expensive AR for the purpose of burning up ammo.;)

Cougfan2
August 21, 2007, 10:10 PM
One important key to testing Wolf is to run it in a very hot rifle. I did a course with a guy who had no trouble shooting Wolf in his chrome-lined Bushmaster - until the rifle got hot. Once it got hot, it started doing what W.E.G. describes. The hotter it got, the more it malfunctioned.

Thanks for the input! I two rifles with Bushmaster uppers. If is comes to SHTF I don't want to have to worry about jammin' problems. Bases on input from the board I think I'll be sticking with brass cased ammo.

Thanks to all who opined!:)

Cougfan2
August 21, 2007, 10:16 PM
Thanks for the input! I two rifles with Bushmaster uppers. If is comes to SHTF I don't want to have to worry about jammin' problems. Bases on input from the board I think I'll be sticking with brass cased ammo.

Apologies for the typos. My fingers outran my brain. :)

M2 Carbine
August 21, 2007, 10:24 PM
W.E.G.
The simple fact of the matter is it works in some rifles, and not in others.

Chrome-lined barrels seem to offer some advantage, but no guarantee of success.

I recommend that you get three magazines worth of the stuff. Fire it all rapidly. If you have ZERO malfunctions, you are one of the lucky ones.

I've had terrible results with the both varieties (lacquer and polymer) in my sample of two rifles. The cases stick in the chamber -- then the extractor rips the rim off the case -- then I have to beat the stuck case out of the chamber with a cleaning rod.
Not my idea of a fun time.


I've had the same experience, to some degree, in five .223's.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/Wolf223extractor.jpg

Cougfan2
August 21, 2007, 10:30 PM
Trouble? You're darn right you gots trouble boy....the Moderator kind. You best take this here kind of question down to Rifle Country or you will be in a world of trouble

Thanks CoyoteJr, I "I done been schooled".:D

Richard.Howe
August 21, 2007, 10:56 PM
Just splurge for some good 'ole xm-193 or qm-3131a, and call it a day -- Wolf ain't worth the hassle, and it sure ain't worth your life if you need it in a defensive posture -- get the real, milspec stuff and feel confident in your decision!

Rich

Geno
August 21, 2007, 11:04 PM
Never had a problem, but I do not fire it to the point of heating the barrel...10 rounds and cool off.

Onmilo
August 21, 2007, 11:39 PM
An author named Pat Sweeny completed a shooting course using nothing but Wolf polymer coated steel case ammo in a Stag Arms AR.
Something like 3000 rounds were fired with zero malfunctions as stated by the author.

That said, I have repaired something on the order of twenty rifles now that did have issues with Wolf ammunition.
I don't have the history on most of the individual rifles I repaired, the owners just wanted them fixed.
When Mr. Sweeeny shot the course he reported on, he started with a clean rifle and used nothing but the Wolf ammunition during the shoot.

On the rifles I have repaired that had the history reported, in every single case the rifle was fired with several different brands of ammunition, brass and steel case, and in my opinion, every rifle repaired did show some signs of neglect in regard to proper cleaning and maintenance.

I have shot Wolf in my personal rifles and had no problems but I maintain my rifles and keep them clean.
Even so I had some reservations every time I shot the stuff.

SomeKid
August 22, 2007, 12:54 AM
Use wolf for range work, and general plinking.

Use good quality stuff for actual self-defense.

Wolf is not the best, but it is sufficient for practice.

Wait, what am I saying?! Do not touch the stuff, it will ruin your rifle. If you have any, send it to me. Now. I will dispose of it properly.

Expertowgunner
August 22, 2007, 12:54 AM
Ive used some wolf 223 and it works fine. wouldnt bet my life on it, but for plinking its not bad considering its $200 for 1000 vs. 300-400 for brass american ammo. Never had a jam with it, and my bushmaster has never bent lips of rounds like that it. Accuaracy with iron sights at 100 yds is about 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 depending on my rate of fire and just overall how bad/good of a day im having. It wont be winning any awards for accuaracy or reliability but if you want to practice there is no cheaper ammo for the job.

JTW Jr.
August 22, 2007, 01:42 AM
Wolf dont shoot for crap in my 1:7 Sabre Defence Upper'd AR , but I was sighting in my dad's Bushy that he just put a scoped varmint upper on , and all he had was wolf , I managed to get 1/2" groups at 100 using the ammo I had been telling him was crap , but his gun loves that stuff. This is just informal shooting , 10 rounds and grab another gun , and so on. For goofing off ammo , it will work. I am gonna have to try some thru my A2 now just for giggles.

TimboKhan
August 22, 2007, 01:49 AM
I have shot and will continue to shoot Wolf, and I have never experienced a problem with it. I guess past that, I really have nothing more to say.

Bartholomew Roberts
August 22, 2007, 02:13 AM
I managed to get 1/2" groups at 100 using the ammo I had been telling him was crap

My guess would be that this was just a statistical fluke (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=279218).

Bazooka Joe71
August 22, 2007, 02:21 AM
I managed to get 1/2" groups at 100 using the ammo I had been telling him was crap

My guess would be that this was just a statistical fluke.


:)


Sorry, I just had to smile a bit at that one.:D

aaronrkelly
August 22, 2007, 04:08 AM
Ive shot thousands of rounds out of my home builds using Model 1 Sales rifle kits with only 1 minor problem.

I occasionally, let say 1 time per 200 rounds, would have a empty casing get stuck in the chamber. A few love taps with the cleaning rod and we are back shooting.

I recently upgraded the extractor using BCM extractor kits (5 coil spring, o-ring and black insert) and the problems are gone.....perfect extraction every time.

My 16" gun is chrome lined, my 20" isnt.....doesnt seem to be any difference in extraction between the two....both are flawless.

dodge
August 22, 2007, 07:36 AM
About all I have used in my Stag Model 3 is Brown Bear lacquered coated and never had any problems with it. I have shot 1-30 round and 2-20 round mags then reloaded mags and repeat as fast as I could still no problems. By the time I was done I was unable to hold unto the forearm as the heat coming off the barrel was too hot to handle.

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