Getting past no safety


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Ragnar Danneskjold
August 21, 2007, 10:59 PM
I'm in a conundrum. I've got about $1000 set aside to get a top of the line pistol. Currently, I don't own any guns without manual safeties. I just can't get past the emotional response that I get when a weapon can't be "turned off". I like to have to do 2 things before the weapon fires;turn the safety off, and pull the trigger. I like the idea that both have to occur, and that if only one happens by accident, the weapon won't fire. So the idea of just the trigger not being pulled as the only "safety" is disconcerting.

I know that this limits my choice of firearms substantially. The Walther P99, all Sigs, and the HK P2K are all great weapons.

Has anyone else had similar feelings? Should I just say "screw it" and spring for something like a Sig or P99 and just learn to like it?

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2RCO
August 21, 2007, 11:06 PM
Taurus,
I have the same problem here I bought an S&W airweight to get a wheelgun for the nightstand it hangs out in the Gun safe and the good ole 1911 is at bedside because the grip safety and thumb safety. Plus without one in the chamber its gonna be hard for accidental discharge.

The-Fly
August 22, 2007, 01:24 AM
talk about totally different viewpoints. My first handgun was a 357 mag, second was a glock 17, third (and ccw piece) was a glock 26. From my point of view, a handgun with a manual safety almost seems archaic.

That said, don't hesitate to buy a no manual safety gun. As long as you follow the 4 rules, there's nothing to be concerned about.

Ethereal
August 22, 2007, 01:46 AM
Whatever is most comfortable to you is what you should go with. Me personally I prefer a model with no external safety. As long as you're comfortable and familiar with whatever you get, the safety is honestly the least of your concerns as far as a pistol goes because you'll eventually engage and disengage the safety without even thinking about it like second habit.

Soybomb
August 22, 2007, 02:59 AM
Mine goes the other way, I don't like the thought of a gun that might get turned off. I want to think that it is always ready to fire, and I want it to be always ready to fire.

JohnBT
August 22, 2007, 08:11 AM
"Has anyone else had similar feelings?"

Not me, I grew up shooting DA revolvers. You learn not to touch the trigger until you're ready for the gun to fire. It's actually a good rule for all firearms.

John

45auto
August 22, 2007, 08:43 AM
I have similiar feelings.

Growing up with long guns, then handguns, all my firearms had manual safeties except for a couple of revolvers.

Seems natural to have a manual safety!

ADKWOODSMAN
August 22, 2007, 08:48 AM
I think everyone should start wtih a DA revolver--go from there!:D

Picknlittle
August 22, 2007, 09:00 AM
I don't have a lot of experience with varieties of handguns. I'm the one who asked the silly question about why a glock in the pocket was a bad idea. I have since gone to the glock site and found the answer.

Now, I like the idea of a positive lock safety, but in a defensive weapon, I like not having to do anything deliberate to arm the trigger. Glock and Kel-Tec both have trigger pull safeties. Glock uses an actual finger actuated trigger safety, Kel-Tec uses a long trigger pull (as I understand it).

Both have the advantage of using a natural shooting action to overcome the safety, but both are subject to the same failure if not holstered in a way that covers the trigger.

I think I'd like to see the back strap grip safety and the glock styled trigger safety used together.

Is this available anywhere?

ID_shooting
August 22, 2007, 09:03 AM
"I think I'd like to see the back strap grip safety and the glock styled trigger safety used together.

Is this available anywhere?"

Springfield XD?

gbelleh
August 22, 2007, 09:07 AM
How about an HK P7? No safety switch, but a big squeezer safety. It requires 2 actions to fire. It is "off" while just sitting, "on" when firmly gripped.

Jim Watson
August 22, 2007, 09:23 AM
I had a P7 at one time. It was a good shooting gun but I found that I could not be fully effective with the squeeze cocker unless I shot it ALL the time. I was unwilling to give up my Colts and Smiths, so the H&K went.

One part of this is making a safe draw. How many times have you read and heard: "Take a firing grip on the gun in the holster?" Good sense, then you just have to pull, aim and fire. But on a P7, if you take a firing grip on it in the holster, it is cocked and unlocked in the holster. Not my idea of the way to handle a 3 lb SA. Takes kind of a "plucking" motion to draw without squeezing it so hard as to cock it.

(Yes, I know about 2 lb Glock triggers and I don't want one of those, either.)

Old Fuff
August 22, 2007, 09:27 AM
At this point I would like to kill a myth.... :banghead:

All post-war S&W, Colt, Ruger, Taurus - and most if not all other double-action, hand ejector revolvers do have safeties. In addition most prewar Colt and S&W revolvers do also.

These safeties are internal, and mechanical - not manual. They absolutely prevent a discharge unless the trigger is pulled all of the way back (in either single or double action mode) and held there while the hammer falls. Even if the hammer is cocked, and falls unintentionally (which is unlikely) the trigger will follow the hammer down, and the gun will not fire.

But because some cannot see these safeties, as they can a maual lever or botton, they presume there isn't any safety. Ain't true. ;)

TX1911fan
August 22, 2007, 12:13 PM
Many of the newer "no safety" guns, such as the M&P, XD and so forth have safetys, they are just not the type you are used to. The M&P uses a hinged trigger, so the trigger has to be pulled in the correct fashion to fire. The XD uses a similar concept on the trigger, plus a grip safety. I think you should get one, maybe used for a cheaper price, and put in a lot of range time so you can get comfortable that they are just as safe as any other gun.

Steve C
August 22, 2007, 12:44 PM
I once had some minor trepidation regarding my Glock 19's lack of manual safety but got over it after some consideration. Over the years I've come to the decision to only carry DA or DAO handguns, without the safety on if it has one, for self defense. I want a gun that is safe insomuch that it will not likely discharge if dropped or the trigger is lightly bumped but will go off without having to do anything more than pull the trigger if needed under dire circumstances. While I love shooting my 1911's, Browning HP and Ruger Blackhawk they have been relegated to range, hunting or the nightstand.

For self defense concealed carry the Glock 19 and a Colt Detective Special are probably the two that gets the most travel time but depending upon clothing and time of year they get replaced by a PPK/s or a Sig 220.

nalioth
August 22, 2007, 01:07 PM
Every potentially dangerous device in the world has a safety.


It lies between ones ears.

glockman19
August 22, 2007, 01:14 PM
talk about totally different viewpoints. My first handgun was a 357 mag, second was a glock 17, third (and ccw piece) was a glock 26. From my point of view, a handgun with a manual safety almost seems archaic.
+1

The best Safety is your trigger finger.

Justin
August 22, 2007, 01:19 PM
If you prefer pistols with a manual safety, buy one with a manual safety.

Elm Creek Smith
August 22, 2007, 06:06 PM
I carried a Pistol, M1911A1, for sixteen years in the Army and a Pistol, M9, for my last four. My hand knows to look for the thumb safety when I grab a M1911A1 but never did get used to the M9 safety/hammer drop. That said, I always carry a KelTec P32 and most times carry a Kahr K9 or S&W Model 13 3-inch round butt (usually the Model 13). I don't miss the manual safeties since every shot is "double-action." Unless you're pulling the trigger, your finger shouldn't be on it.

ECS

Jorg Nysgerrig
August 22, 2007, 06:23 PM
taurusowner, don't take this the wrong way, but you seem overly concerned over something which most of us consider to be no big deal.

I wouldn't consider any gun with a round in the chamber to be "turned off" regardless of the existance of a manual safety. If I want to turn off a gun, so to speak, it needs to be completely cleared.

But, this really is a non-issue. As Justin said, there are plenty of fine guns with manual safeties that you can get.

If you are set on getting past the issue, there really is only one way. Buy a gun that doesn't have one and see if it the feeling goes away after you're familiar with the operation. If not, sell it and try again. Sure, you'll take a bit of a hit in the wallet, but then you'll know for sure.

I would suggest you look at the operation of the XD pistol. Between the grip safety and the trigger safety, one has to be pretty deliberate to get it to go off.

motorheadjohn
August 22, 2007, 06:23 PM
Have you rented a SiG or one of the others you mentioned? Borrow one from a friend or rent one from a range and see how you like them.

I have several SiGs and I'm completely comfortable with them. But they are the first handgun I ever bought, learned to shoot with, etc.

Bottom line you will be comfortable with what you train and practice. If you try shooting a friend's or rental and can't get over the idea, then stick with what you know. No shame in that. I think that line about "the man with only one gun..." applies here.

W.E.G.
August 22, 2007, 06:36 PM
Somebody said, "Guns are supposed to be dangerous. That's why I carry one."

If you uncomfortable with the concept of not having to manipulate a bunch of locks, buttons, and levers before the gun becomes dangerous, there are ample specimens available on the market with whatever combination of those features suits your fancy.

For a handgun, I really like the simple concept of: draw gun, point gun, pull trigger.

Still, there might be some situation where a lockout "safety" mechanism would be appropriate - such as close crowd conditions where the possibility of a gun-snatch is a real matter of concern. My backup gun would still be without the features of the gun now in possession of the gun-snatcher. I wonder if you could get in trouble for shooting a guy in possession of a gun you know is disabled? That's all too much for me to think about in those sorts of situations. That's why I like the idea of "all guns are dangerous - keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot." Seems easy enough for even me to understand.

Black Adder LXX
August 22, 2007, 08:29 PM
I know people who feel the same way. I do not, but respect those who do. My wife hates the thought of not having a safety. Any SD gun I have with a safety is kept loaded, safety off.
Like soybomb, I want nothing between me and firing but the third rule: "Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target." My finger stays off the trigger until I'm ready to shoot. That's the only safety I can trust. But YMMV, if you feel better with an external safety, there's nothing wrong with that. The guns I have with a safety, I do use them as decockers...

dstorm1911
August 22, 2007, 09:10 PM
Springfield XD carry it while runnin out here in the desert on a 500 cc 2 stroke dirt bike... all that power will eventuaally lead to rather spectacular crashes while jumping washes ar blasting down trails to suddenly stop because of a 4' wide trench created from flowing water etc...... the XD has been beat up some by the rocks sand/dirt and vegetation but it nor the Yugo AK generally folded and slung across my back both with one in the tube has ever went off nor have they ever failed to function as designed....

Now have gotten some intresting bruises from both however ;)

Mantua
August 22, 2007, 09:34 PM
Try this: Unload. Try pulling the trigger on a P99, Glock, or anything that doesn't have a manual safety using your keys, a pen, loose coins or anything else that you'd find in your pockets. The way the trigger safety is designed makes it awfully difficult to pull that trigger without an actual finger on it.

mister_wilburn
August 22, 2007, 09:35 PM
Taking a proper grip on the XD and pulling the trigger all the way to the rear disengages 3 safeties. And 3 safeties is enough for me. The trigger wont pull if the grip safety isn't pressed, nor will it pull without the trigger embedded safety being pulled. And the striker wont release unless the other two have happened first. The best part?? I only have to take a grip and pull the trigger to make it function.

Get what feels good and you can shoot well. The best gun for me might not shoot well for you. Find a place that will let you rent guns (or friends guns) and see what you think. You need only drive to El Paso to test out my XD, ill buy the first 100 rounds :)

Ragnar Danneskjold
August 22, 2007, 09:39 PM
Thanks for the input guys. I've done some thinking, and I have decided to just man up and get over my disdain for manual safety-less weapons. I want to work in civilian law enforcement someday soon, and since the vast majority of departments use either Glocks or Sigs, I will have to use one at some point. So why not now.

3006mv
August 22, 2007, 10:55 PM
No, go with what you prefer and are used to and likely to keep in practice. Might I suggest http://www.world.guns.ru/handguns/hg161-e.htm

camslam
August 22, 2007, 11:06 PM
Stick with what you are comfortable with. That being said, I prefer my Glocks for just that reason, when I pull the trigger I know it goes bang and I don't have to worry about anything else.

Every person is different, it took my wife quite a while before she was comfortable with the idea of a trigger only safety, but she is now sold as well.

I think a lot of it also depends on what you are going to be using it for. If it is just for fun or plinking, I wouldn't worry about it, but if it is to be used in situations where seconds and 10ths of seconds count, it is nice to not have to switch the safety off.

JMHO.

Jimmy Newman
August 23, 2007, 03:38 AM
Taurusowner,

I actually have the exact OPPOSITE viewpoint from you :).

I am much more comfortable carrying a decocked pistol with no safety (like a P99 or Sig) than a pistol with a manual safety (like a 1911). Any time I carry a pistol (mostly on private property while hunting) I carry it in a good holster which adequately protects the trigger, so I am not worried at all about the trigger getting pulled. On the other hand, "cocked and locked" firearms of whatever type give me the heebiejeebies (although I am planning on getting a 1911 and trying to learn to trust it). The reason they do is that component failure (for example of the sear) could cause the hammer to fall and make the pistol go off (in the absence of a firing pin safety like the series 80 or kimber systems). People can say all day that it's a safe system, but mechanical devices do fail on occasion. The P99 and Sig, on the other hand, both have safeties which prevent hammer/striker travel without the trigger being pulled, and don't have sufficient tension on the striker or hammer to fire a cartridge even if the striker or hammer were released through mechanical failure. I don't want to get into an argument about it, I love shooting 1911's and they're great pistols, but I don't like cocked and locked carry, particularly on non-FPS guns, and noone is going to change my mind (at least about the FPS part).

Desk Jockey
August 23, 2007, 08:30 AM
I have decided to just man up and get over my disdain for manual safety-less weapons.

That's the approach that I took a year or so back. After a few range sessions with my Kahr MK-9, I got over it pretty quickly. A good holster will also boost your confidence in carrying a weapon with internal-only safeties.

Neophyte1
August 23, 2007, 09:09 AM
tarususowner: Sir; many if not most of your reply' s revolve around Revolver
actions.
Those of us that have, and carried a handgun realize the importance of having something ready in that moment.
Having to un-do something to get ready for something else?
Both; revolvers/semi's have a for-ever built in safety.
"You"

Practice with an "unloaded" [I STRESS] unloaded. Some if not all will come quite naturally.

Be Safe; Craig

kludge
August 23, 2007, 09:11 AM
It's been said before but... The safety is that big gray thing between your ears. :)

Samuraigg
August 23, 2007, 06:18 PM
I prefer no safety, one of the many reasons I love my P220 and seek to buy a P226 in the near future.

To me the safety would just get in the way, and acts as a dangerous crutch I would rather not rely on. Safety comes with proper firearm handling, not a toggle on the gun.

tubeshooter
August 23, 2007, 06:51 PM
"Has anyone else had similar feelings?"

Not me, I grew up shooting DA revolvers. You learn not to touch the trigger until you're ready for the gun to fire. It's actually a good rule for all firearms.

John


This is me. One thing I like about the wheelgun is that I totally trust it at 1 o' clock IWB. ;)

Lonestar49
August 23, 2007, 07:03 PM
...

Take a look at the Beretta Px4 9mm or 40cal.. F-model

DA/SA safety and decocker in one..

You should get about 400 bucks back in change out of your 1000 for one NIB.

If you decide to go decocker only, look at Sigs, your 1000 bucks will be invested well.


LS


PS.. no finger on the trigger, gun in DA mode, decocker only, is a good safety, but that has to be learned, and understood with comfort, like any good "habit".. Go with your best flow, your own happiness.

mpmarty
August 23, 2007, 07:13 PM
Taurusowner look at the Taurus PT145 second generation. Long double action like a revolver WITH a 1911 type safety to boot. The striker is totally at rest with no tension on the spring until you start pulling that long trigger. This is to my way of thinking the best of carry systems. Like a revolver with eleven rounds of 45acp. I wouldn't trust my Glock out of a full coverage holster, it is either in its factory box, unloaded or it is in a holster that completely covers the trigger guard and when I draw it I keep my finger parallel with the slide, pointing at the potential target. I have never been comfortable with the "safe action" bull the Glock claims and I understand that in Europe they (Glock) produce a pistol WITH a 1911 type safety but won't do it here because they fear someone saying "see there, they were unsafe after all, lets sue them". Go with what you are comfortable with and if you get into law enforcement you will either be able to carry something with a safety or you wont, cross that bridge when you come to it.

Bilt4Comfort
August 23, 2007, 08:20 PM
This is me. One thing I like about the wheelgun is that I totally trust it at 1 o' clock IWB.

Lol...I don't care if it's not loaded and all moving parts have been welded...I can't put one in that position.

I trust my XDs fully...no toggle switch needed.

ravencon
August 23, 2007, 08:26 PM
The best safety device is the grey matter between our ears. I feel safer with a gun that doesn't have a manual safety (at least for self-defense). Under stress I don't want to have to deal with a complex manual of arms.

Double action revolvers, DAO semis or a DA/SA semis usually have trigger pulls that are not easily "set off" without significant volitional action. Give them a fair try and I suspect you'll find that this is so. Glock type triggers that have been modified to reduce trigger pull are another matter. I don't think these are for everyone (especially if you appendix carry :eek:).

For me the action that seems the safest for concealed carry and self-defense is a DAO revolver with a tuned action. YMMV.

TMann
August 23, 2007, 10:00 PM
I actually have the exact OPPOSITE viewpoint from you .

I am much more comfortable carrying a decocked pistol with no safety (like a P99 or Sig) than a pistol with a manual safety (like a 1911). Any time I carry a pistol (mostly on private property while hunting) I carry it in a good holster which adequately protects the trigger, so I am not worried at all about the trigger getting pulled. On the other hand, "cocked and locked" firearms of whatever type give me the heebiejeebies (although I am planning on getting a 1911 and trying to learn to trust it).

I'm with Jimmy Newman on this one. I have gotten so used to the handling of a DAO handgun (Glock, Kahr and a Kel-tec,) that I am a bit nervous about carrying a SA, "cocked-and-locked" handgun. It's not a matter of which gun is intrinsically safer; it's a matter of my ingrained habits. If I ever have to use one of my guns in a self-defense situation, I think that I'd be better off with what I'm most familiar with.

Having said that...I'd suggest staying with what you're familiar with. Good luck with your choice. :)

TMann

orionengnr
August 24, 2007, 10:02 PM
...ever fire a revolver?

Sylvan-Forge
August 25, 2007, 06:00 AM
Some good myth bustering episodes might be in the showing of various firearm safety systems...
especially concerning drop-safeties, half-cock notches, hammer and striker blocking designs, et al.

bonesaw
August 25, 2007, 10:15 PM
Safeties shouldn't stop the trigger from being pulled anyways. They should prevent the weapon from discharging if it is dropped or jostled, but you shouldn't ever believe you can touch the trigger with your finger and have the gun be "safe."

WeedWhacker
August 26, 2007, 02:21 AM
I felt the same way about safeties, even though my first pistol was a Glock. In fact, I didn't keep a round in the chamber because of my unease.

That was before I came across some videos of peaceable people using firearms to confront evildoers (http://weedwhacker.org/movies/ohio-ccw.wmv) - and noticed how fast everything happens in a life-or-death situation.

I'd already purchased good holsters which covered and protected the trigger, so ever since then, I've been carrying with one in the pipe, ready to go, and am now quite at ease.

Then I was able to shoot a revolver for the first time and felt somewhat silly after noticing that NONE of the dozens of revolvers had external safties. :)

shadowalker
August 26, 2007, 09:54 AM
You may still have the choice of a weapon with a manual safety if you really want it. A tip I heard to get more comfortable carrying without a manual safety is to carry your firearm in it's normal holster around the house with the hammer back and safety off, and go about your day, if you hear the hammer fall something happened.

I used to like manual safeties but now find them dangerous, they get in the way when you need your firearm and give some people a false sense of safety, how many times have you heard "Don't worry the safety is on!"

Manual safeties can do and do fail, a friend of the family nearly shot people in one incident with his LAR Win Mag (1911 sized up to 45 Win Mag) when he demonstrated how the grip safety worked (which didn't).

That said I'd rather carry with one in the chamber and manual safety than empty chamber and no safety.

Geno
August 26, 2007, 09:59 AM
Carry what you will, but know your weapon like you know your own hand. I prefer either a G19C or a 1911 with the manual safety in fire-ready. The grip safety is sufficient.

Silvanus
August 26, 2007, 11:59 AM
Should I just say "screw it" and spring for something like a Sig or P99 and just learn to like it?

Yes, you should. It is NOT dangerous to carry a DA pistol (something like a Glock for that matter). I'm sure after some range sessions you'll feel comfortable with a pistol without manual safety.

Clipper
August 26, 2007, 01:39 PM
Yeah, C&L is what makes me nervous. It's why I got rid of my Ultra Carry. A guy I know has a big crater in his leg and walks with a limp because of (according to him) a mechanical failure that caused a 1911 to discharge as he drew it from the holster. B.S. or not, I can concieve of the chain of events that could possibly lead to that result, and cannot bring myself to carry a C&L pistol. I carry a Kel-Tec, and I had a PT-145, both pocket carried with full confidence. However, I wouldn't own a Glock if you gave it to me...

M.E.Eldridge
August 26, 2007, 05:14 PM
I've never had that problem. I don't use manual safeties very often, though. In fact, C&L with a 1911 is about the only time I do use a manual safety--at all other times, I leave the safety off and keep my finger clear of the trigger until I want to fire.

Richard.Howe
August 26, 2007, 05:19 PM
The safety for all my guns, be they rifle, pistol, or shotgun, is located at the end of the index finger on my right hand.

If I don't trust that, then I don't trust a mechanical safety either...

Your mileage may vary!
Rich

Mat, not doormat
August 27, 2007, 03:04 PM
I came to pistols through shotguns, rifles, .22 target pistols, and then single action revolvers. Having to either cock the gun, or disengage a safety first, and then getting a nice single action trigger pull afterwards seems like a much more reasonable thing than having a ready to fire weapon with a goofy, spongy, or long and heavy trigger.

YMMV

~~~Mat

cpaspr
August 27, 2007, 03:50 PM
When you need a gun, you need it now. When I'm target practicing, I don't care if it has a safety. I can remember to take it off, and if I forget, the gun simply doesn't go bang. When I'm hunting, I'm often walking, so having a safety is a good idea, in case I trip and my finger or a stick ends up in the trigger guard and presses the trigger.

However, if I need a defense gun, I need it right now. I need to be able to make it to go bang before the other guy can make his go bang, or if he's already shooting, before he can land one in me.

And I don't want anything to slow up that process that can get me killed. So for me, I refuse to carry something that requires a safety to be carried safely. No 1911s, etc. I have a Ruger P90 .45 ACP that I've used in IDPA, and several times after loading and making ready I've forgotten to flick the safety off after dropping the hammer. When the timer goes beep it's only embarrassing when the trigger doesn't do anything. However, when you're life is on the line, the bg doesn't give you a second chance. And the consequence of forgetting to take the safety off is way beyond a little embarrassment.

So it's revolvers or DAO or DA/SA with a dedicated decocker, but no combo decocker/safety.

My preference and my reasons. Yours may vary.

choochboost
August 27, 2007, 04:04 PM
If you need to get past it, tell yourself that the safety will actually be more dangerous as you may rely on it to make up for breaking the rules of firearms safety. Without the safety, you will not be tempted to put your finger in the trigger guard since it is always loaded and always ready to go. :)

Papaster
August 27, 2007, 04:58 PM
I too had concerns carrying a firearm w/o an external safety. I know what you mean by the peace of mind this bestows. This is, after all, the purpose for carrying a weapon. However, my carry gun, a PT-145 only is locked when un-holstered. I bought it thinking I would carry the gun with the safety engaged, but never have. I feel much better not having one more thing to think/worry about before dropping a BG. I want to grab and shoot, and I have never had an accidental discharge carrying like this. Safety is what you exercise, not something you use. Never point at anything you do not intend to destroy, never put your finger on the trigger (or inside the trigger guard) until you are on target and ready to shoot, and always carry in a good, trigger-protecting holster. I carry with one in the chamber, and am totally at peace with the "safety" being disengaged. Understanding the mechanics of the whole striker-fire system, and how it will never discharge without completely and intentionally pulling the trigger is enough to keep me happy.
I fell in love with 1911's before ever owning my first handgun, and thought no gun could be safe without a manual safety. But my first handgun taught me to think differently, much as the people on this thread have suggested. I owned a Smith & Wesson Model 10, with no manual safety. And I never worried about AD's, but prevented them through safe handling. And those good habits carry over into auto loaders very easily.

akodo
August 27, 2007, 05:37 PM
The best safety is between your ears.

I actually find it kind of scary that you don't consider a gun 'turned on' just because the saftey is still on. To me, it should still be treated with utmost respect, if you 'think' the safety is on or you 'think' it is unloaded you could be wrong on either or boht accounts, with devestating results

10-Ring
August 27, 2007, 05:59 PM
I guess it's just one of the little quirks you may or may not get past. Plus, look at the companies you've mentioned -- Walther, Sigarms & HK-- al successful, all w/ a great following & all hi quality guns :cool: All their fans can't be wrong ;)

zeroskillz
August 27, 2007, 06:01 PM
Buy a Sig 220 SAO. Great gun and has a safety.
So do the X5's by Sig, but they're a bit more than $1000.
[blatant plug]
It just so happens I have this one for sale:
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j271/zeroskillz2/sigforum/220mSAO.jpg
NIB Sig 220 Match pistol for $875 shipped. (notice the ambi safety)
Drop me a PM if you're at all interested.
I've got a crapload of other sigs at the moment as well if you can accept the DA/SA trigger.
[/blatant plug]
:D
Thanks!
-Ted

littlegator
August 27, 2007, 06:16 PM
My first and only handgun is a S&W M&P9. It does not have a manual safety. I firmly believe, though, that the lack of a manual safety has made me more conscious of the 4 basic rules and I am a safer, more consciencious gun holder because of it.

5Wire
August 27, 2007, 08:28 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Para Ordnance LDA pistols. Double action, grip safety, slide safety, as well as internal safety.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/5Wire/645L.jpg

I'm also in favor of the P7 as a very safe to carry pistol.

boomer1911a1
August 29, 2007, 02:04 PM
Like you, Taurusowner, I am very comfortable with a manual safety. I feel that knowing how to work it is part of the full repertoire of any serious firearms enthusiast in the same way that any serious driver worth his salt knows how to drive stick -- and I mean with a clutch, not paddle shifters....

I always buy pistols with manual safeties instead of decockers... or less. But just because it's there doesn't mean you have to use it.

If you're leaving your pistol on the nightstand, the theory is you'll want it instantly. So chamber it and leave the safety off. Even the mighty 1911 (at least a new one) won't discharge if knocked to the floor -- even cocked and unlocked! But if you do want it made safe, you can always flick the thumb lever up. On a Glock, say, you don't have the option.

Yes, if follow Rule #3 this is a non-issue. Yes, your real safety is your trigger finger/brain. But I find having the ability to disable the trigger comforting. And I practice practice practice wiping (or flicking) it off smoothly.

easyg
August 29, 2007, 03:30 PM
Personally, I like a manual safety.

But you do have to practice switching the safety off over and over and over until it's an automatic response.

But this not difficult in the least; it's just like when you practice drawing your weapon while remembering to keep your finger off the trigger.
Newbies will often finger the trigger on a quick draw, but those who have practiced it a thousand times will keep their finger off with no conscious effort whatsoever.

col_tapiocca
August 29, 2007, 04:02 PM
manual safety are imo useless.
Just remember the safety rules and keep your finger from the trigger if you're not ready to fire.
It's the only one 100% reliable safety. Most accident happens because people think the gun is unloaded or the safety was on.

Beside of carry a gun for self defense, a gun should be always unloaded. If it's loaded I want to shoot, so why safeties??

JMO

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