[Princi]

I picked up a Taurus 44-Ten that shoots 3" 410 shotgun shells. (Well, some 3" shells - the Winchester ones I tried were too long).

My problem is that I don't know shot (sorry, couldn't resist) about shotgun shells and what they are best used for.

I'm one of those elderly people living in Texas, and I'd like to keep the Taurus loaded for home defense (lot's of "undocumented workers" in area). The question I have is: is it better to use a smaller size shot where you have a lot of pellets or is it better to have larger shot size with just a few pellets?

Incidentally, I have a security system that drops gas canisters in the common area. Also, the bedroom doors have outside door type locks that require keys, and they are reinforced. If someone gets into the bedroom, they are probably on drugs, and I don't want to just wound them and make them mad, which could result from shooting them with something like 22LR. I want to stop them, and killing them would only be the last resort (when I pull the 357 Magnum).

[vanilla_gorilla]

I have a security system that drops gas canisters in the common area

***?

[Smeg]

Buck shot is for bad guys. Bird shot is for birds.

[35Rem]

Why not just use the 357? Bird Shot is for birds. I would use 45 Colt in it for bad guys.
the bird shot stuff is more of a stunt, but has more use as a snake gun. Maybe small game at close range, but that thing has got to be loud.

If the dropping gas cannisters don't make them go away, I don't think they'll be "stopped" without killing them, provided killing is justified.

[Larryect]

I want to stop them, and killing them would only be the last resort (when I pull the 357 Magnum).

This greatly concerns me. Stopping someone with a firearm is likely to kill. If not willing/justified to kill you should NOT use any firearm.

[Nameless_Hobo]

Use the .357, or the .45 colts in the Taurus.(Make sure not to get "cowboy" loads, get heavier self defense loads.) .410 isn't enough for selfdefense, in my opinion.
Don't try to "stop." try to "stop by killing". When you're pulling that trigger, all that matters in your life is putting him down for good. Waste him, don't worry about injuring him.

[Princi]

Vanilla Gorilla, here is a link: http://www.stopthecrime.com/default.htm

"Bird Shot?", "Buck Shot?" I went to midwayusa and did a search on "bird shot", and "birdshot" without results. What I've seen on the store shelves is things like: "6", "7-1/2", etc. I understand that the higher the number the smaller the shot is, but I thought it all was buckshot. Help Please!

[Sistema1927]

You are typically going to purchase bird shot (not a technical term that will be on the box) in quantities of 25. Buckshot loads will typically be sold in boxes of five shells.

Some of the sizes can be confusing. #4 shot is decent for rabbits and pheasants, while there is a #4 buckshot which is one of the smaller sizes for buck. The typical deer hunting buckshot is either 0 (pronounced "single ought") and 00 ("double ought").

Just one other (and very important) thing is that you need to seriously consider your self-defense philosophy. You should never shoot at someone unless you are willing to kill them since any use of a firearm against a human being is an application of deadly force. There is no such thing as "shoot to wound". If you are not justified in taking their life then you are not justified in pointing a firearm at them.

[enfield]

Buckshot shells will say buckshot or buck on the box and shells. Buckshot size is #4 Buck thru OOO Buck I believe*, from smaller to larger. #1 and OO are most popular for self-defense.

Shot shells labeled BB thru #9 are birdshot.

I wouldn't use .410 birdshot for self-defense unless there were no rocks within reach.




* If I'm wrong, I KNOW someone will correct me. :p

[35Rem]

Here's a size chart, for comparison, in case some are confused about terms. This shows the sizes of shot together, so when you see the numbers on the box, you'll have a better idea. Buckshot is usually marked buckshot on the box.
http://www.ammobank.com/shotsize.html

[Vern Humphrey]

"Bird Shot?", "Buck Shot?" I went to midwayusa and did a search on "bird shot", and "birdshot" without results. What I've seen on the store shelves is things like: "6", "7-1/2", etc. I understand that the higher the number the smaller the shot is, but I thought it all was buckshot. Help Please!
"Birdshot" is for shooting birds. "Buckshot" is for shooting bucks (deer, which are man-sized animals.)

Birdshow will commonly run from about number 8 (smallest) up to about number 2 (largest.) Buckshot will be labeled "Buckshot" or "Buck" and will run from number 4 Buck (the smallest and different from number 4 birdshot) to 000 buck (the largest.)

I frankly don't recommend using either birdshot or buckshot in that Taurus for self-defense -- and would opt for a real shotgun or a handgun designed only for bullets, not for shot.

One more point -- when you pull the trigger, you are using Deadly Force. The only legal justification for that is that you were in reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm and had no choice. If you "shoot to wound" or shoot to "warn" you have admitted you did have a choice and you will go to prison.

[Kimber1911_06238]

forget the bid shot....let the tear gas canisters do their thing...lol I've never heard of anyone with tear gas launchers in their home

[joab]

I have heard of these canisters and found them online once, but have never been able to again

I think the general consensus is to use buck if you are going to use it as an SD round

Now tell me more about the tear gas, I have a shed that needs some

[W.E.G.]

It seems to me that if you can afford tear-gas intruder-deterrent systems, and reinforced structural accessories, you could also afford a more suitable home-defense weapon.

That shotgun/pistol thing is nothing but a heavy, and hard-recoiling gimmick.

Get a good full-capacity autoloader in a suitable defense caliber (assuming that your advanced age has not compromised your ability to operate an autoloader). Alternatively, get a good conventional revolver in a a suitable defense caliber. Practice REGULARLY with your proper defensive weapon.

Put that gimmick-gun back in the box.

I just have to ask. Who told you that shotgun/pistol would be a good choice for home defense? Whoever it was, I recommend that you get a second opinion on anything else they tell you pertaining to security matters.

[Vern Humphrey]

I have heard of these canisters and found them online once, but have never been able to again
I wonder what the insurance company says about them? Will they pay for the cleanup?

[gtmtnbiker98]

This is a strange thread, that is for sure. Gas canisters in a home, you've got to be kidding me, right? At least I hope you are kidding.....

[Grizzley Adams]

you allready had all the gun you needed with that 357.you bought a excellent gun to take with you fishing or hunting in case of snakes or if another type wild animal runs up on you.but for defense just count on your 357.now i have been to Texas and i have been to the Dallas Fort Worth area many times and myself i never found it that dangerous especially for the use of a security system that drops gas canisters.now myself i think and i could be wrong that your maybe a teenager trying to collect information for some reason about what would be best to shoot someone with,because i highly doubt no matter how paranoid you are that a elderly person would have a security system that drops gas canisters that sounds like a childish statement to me.and it is inpractical to me,because by the time you hit whatever drops these things and locate and put on your gas mask you will be in worse shape,especially if your impeded in movement by your age.

[America First]

Incidentally, I have a bodily function that drops gas canisters in the common area when under stress

Fixed that for ya! :D

[mitchshrader]

.410 is a 5 00 buckshot (stacked in line) and it equates to a light/medium .38 special load.

you could use a .410 slug, lighter and faster and about the same energy.

or you could just load .38s in that .357 (which i recommend for indoors)..

OR you could put some decent hollowpoint .45's in that 410/45..

but what you can NOT do is use birdshot in a .410 pistol and *STOP* an agressive attack.

in fact, to *STOP* an attack, you'ld likely need to shoot an intruder more than once, with that .45.

take enough gun. defending yourself is pass/fail, you don't get bonus points for nice.

[Princi]

OK, since I got questions about the canisters, I guess you missed my previous link in this thread. Here is where you go to buy the canisters:

http://www.stopthecrime.com/products.htm

It is tied into my security system, but I have a commercial system with a ton of zones. Each room and door is on its on zone ex: family room windows are on one zone, door from family room to garage on its own zone etc. Both garage overhead doors are on the same zone, all the windows in a room are on the same zone. Each inside door, including closets and bedroom doors are on their own zone. Heat sensors in the attics are on one zone, smoke detectors on another zone. There are separate zones for the water bugs (hot water heater is in attic). All sensors are soldered to the wire connectors, which helps prevent false alarms. Well, you get the idea.

The canisters are hooked into the security system based on the zone. If someone breaks into the garage, it would be stupid to drop a canister. However, if they were able to kick in the front door, the alarm would go off. The timer would start, and after a few seconds, it will drop a canister.

This is not foolproof by any means. A close lightning strike (the house has been hit before) could vaporize a switch and open a zone and drop a canister. However, that is unlikely. The most common thing with the switches is that they get fused shut. However, when the house was hit, the switches in the front of the house were vaporized. The security system was, of course, toast and it took out the phone so I couldn't call the fire department. The cell phone surivived, but little else electronic did.

Man has this thread drifted.

OK, you have me convinced that I watch too much TV and this Taurus is not a good defensive weapon. I've also seen people on TV (Outdoor Channel), that say a shotgun is not a good self-defense weapon for the home either. They base it on the long barrel. (I've seen it stated that that during the war with Syria the UZI was a better weapon than the AK-47 because of the shorter barrel (they were in trenches)).

I appreciate the explanations of shot. I never would have guessed that "buckshot" got its name from its use in shooting "bucks". So, do they have "doeshot"? :)

Well, the sun has moved, so the side of the house is in the shade. I have to go replace one of the swimming pool pumps. Between the ponds, streams, pool, and waterfalls, I have 6 pumps, and I'm soon to add a 7th. Sometimes I feel unloved, but then I remember that Texas Utilities really loves me.:rolleyes:

[W.E.G.]

Sounds like quite the spread.

I think you need a personal S.W.A.T. team. Just be sure they keep the "hut-hut" chants down to a low murmur.

[RecoilRob]

For .410 defense...http://www.amderringer.com/safe.html Seems to be the nastiest cartridge I could find.

[DavidVS]

To go with gas canisters, use this (http://www.hellinahandbasket.net/2007/06/loading_up.htm) shotgun load. ;-)

[jsmosby]

Princi,

Stick with the .45 Long Colt. Birdshot is for shooting birds.

JSM

[357wheelgunner]

That tear gas launcher is awesome!

Uh, .410 for defense would be iffy in a 20" barrel shotgun, I'd never use it in a pistol (although it has worked good on chipmunks). Why would you use a .410 for defense when you have a perfectly good .357? Also, how are you going to "pull the .357" if they don't "stop" with a shot from the .410, do you have some kind of holster system to carry all your guns and a remote control for the tear gas? Oh, and if you do set the tear gas off, how are you going to see well enough to shoot anybody?

This has to be one of the wierdest threads I've ever seen on THR....

[Princi]

The tear gas is fired by the alarm system and will not effect me in the master bedroom. I always sleep with the bedroom doors closed. I hope everyone reading this thread does the same. Smoke detectors aren't really smoke detectors, they are ionization detectors. You can have a fire that yields a lot of lethal smoke before the alarms are ever triggered i.e. you could be dead before the alarm goes off.

If the alarm goes off, in the middle of the night, I can turn it off from the bedroom if it is something like a water bug that set it off. (A water bug naturally won't drop a canister).

I would not attempt to clear the house myself if the alarm were to go off. I'd hole up in the bedroom and let my proxy, the gas, do its work.
The police demonstrated to me once how fast they could get here. I took my wife's car in to have a spot on the bumper repainted. They gave me loaner car. I wasn't paying much attention when I thought I was removing the house key from the key-ring. I got home, opened the garage door and went to open the door with the trunk key. The alarm went off, the phone rang, and I then realized I'd need to get back to the dealers before they took the car to the body shop. I never made it out of the driveway. I showed the officer my ID because my two neighbors across the street would have said they had never seen me before in their life and he should cuff me, jail me, and do a full body search. They were amused.

The guns are handy.

[Jorg]

Where's the tear gas launcher on that page? I only see some sort of actuators for cans of OC spray, nothing that drops canisters of tear gas.

As far as having the Taurus loaded with something to stop then and switching to the .357 magnum to kill them, that's just a bad plan. Stick with one gun. I've shot the Taurus. It's a fun gun to play with, but I wouldn't consider it the best choice for home defense.

[MikePGS]

I think it's already been said, but in summary the judge's shotgun function isn't nearly as ideal as the .357 mag you already have. Depending on its size, you might want to load it up with .38's depending on who exactly is going to use it. Even if it were in a shotgun, .410 isn't nearly as ideal as something like even a 20 gauge would be. A 20 gauge shooting buckshot is roughly equivalent energy wise to two .44 magnum slugs hitting someone simultaneously, and the recoil (for me at least) is almost nil.

[Bartkowski]

I want to stop them, and killing them would only be the last resort (when I pull the 357 Magnum).

Afriend and former police officer, he is now something higher up, told me to shoot to kill otherwise, if they live, you will probably be sued and go through hell with lawsuits. Off topic I know, just passing on what the law told me.

[Brian Williams]

.357, .41, .429 etc.

[Tom Servo]

Wow. Um. Gas canisters?

To be honest, the whole setup sounds really convoluted. I make do with two dogs, an alarm system, a defensible fallback location and a .357.

Honestly, if someone's in your house with violent intentions, you want to strike first, and with as much force as possible. Forget CS gas, shotshells or any of that "non-lethal" stuff. If you're justified in using that, you're justified in using deadly force. Don't wait around to "see if that other stuff works on the guy." Seconds count.

BTW, I'm going to write a cheesy sci-fi story, just so I can do a villain named REPULSAR :)

[ArchAngelCD]

That gun is made to shoot .410 shotshells or .45 Colt rounds. For SD you should load it with .45 Colt rounds and be done with it. No reason to shoot someone with a .410 shell and then have to find your .357 Magnum and try to shoot them with it. You probably won't have time and by then you have exacerbated an already dangerous situation. Just load it with .45 Colt or use your .357 Magnum loaded with .38 Special +P rounds for HD.