Help identifying 2 revolvers?


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PILMAN
August 23, 2007, 02:11 PM
I'm doing a wiki page for the movie blood diamond which is a site dedicated to weapons in movies, can anyone identify these 2 revolvers?

http://www.imfdb.org/images/8/84/Bdrevolver.jpg

Heres a closeup of the weapon

http://www.imfdb.org/images/a/a9/Glock26again.jpg

and this revolver.

http://www.imfdb.org/images/4/4f/Bdmilrevolver.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/images/1/1f/Revolverbdmil.jpg

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MrBorland
August 23, 2007, 02:24 PM
It looks to me like 3 different revolvers. The revolver in the top 2 is a S&W, by the looks of the cylinder release. I can't decide if it's a 4" 686 .357magnum or a 5" 625 .45acp.

Given the shape and position of the ejector rod, I'd say the revolver in the 3rd photo is some kind of single action revolver.

The revolver in the last photo may be a Colt or a S&W. I always look at the cylinder release, but I can't tell from that photo. If it's a Smith, it could be Model 10 .38spl. Others could be more help.

average_shooter
August 23, 2007, 02:27 PM
The third and fourth pics are of the same revolver. It's a single-action of some kind... Sorry I can't help more.

ETA: Wait... in the fourth picture it looks like a single-action by the ejector rod and apparent lack of cylinder release on the left side, but it almost looks to me to have a double action trigger. I don't recall seeing any SA's with a trigger pull that long. Especially with the hammer down.

hexidismal
August 23, 2007, 02:29 PM
I believe the one is the first two pics is either a 686 in .357 or a 629 in .44 mag. Mr. Borlands suggestion that it may be a 625 is also a possibility.. with a but. My best guess would be 629 from the frame size, and the ramped front sight. I believe the 625 only comes stock with the partridge front sight, unless changed out.

As far as the second one.. I'm not quite sure, I'm doing some more checking on that one. The fourth pic makes it look almost .. refinished Nagant..y .. except for that large frame section in front of the cylinder, but the third pic does not. It certainly appears to be a single action from that ejector rod housing.

MrBorland
August 23, 2007, 02:31 PM
yep - I just saw that. oops. I still think it's a SA revolver, but from the left side, it doesn't look like a SAA clone to me.

2RCO
August 23, 2007, 02:37 PM
The second one appears to be some kind of Belgian Job to me who knows?

GunTech
August 23, 2007, 02:43 PM
RE the third revolver, there are many European revolvers taht are solid frame and double action, without swing out cylingers - the Nagant being only one example. Even the Colt Lightning was both double acvtion and used an ejector rod like the SAA

http://www.sumtermilitary.com/coltlight.jpg

Although this does not apear to be a Colt. Most of these solid frame, ejector rod guns seem to be of Belgian manufacture, and there are many. However, based on the trigger, hammer shape and ejector, I'd say it is probably a J Gasser or possibly a Chamelot-Delvigne. I'd need a better picture to be sure.

MrBorland
August 23, 2007, 02:44 PM
I'm gonna go with a 686 .357mag for the 1st one, since 686's have a full underlug and a red ramp front. The 629's I've seen seem to have a partial underlug. I don't think it's a 625 .45acp - cylinder looks too long and 625's as far as I know use a Patridge fron sight.

hexidismal
August 23, 2007, 02:48 PM
Actually, now that I think about it, I'm fairly certain the first gun is a 629. The 686 doesn't come in a 5" model , and I'm sure it's not a 6". Beyond that, the bore and chambers look too big to be a .357. It's an older one than the current production. No lock, and stainless hammer/trigger.
629 Classic 5"
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/163636_thumb.jpg

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=14782&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15706&isFirearm=Y

That's actually one of my dream guns right now that I can't afford.

average_shooter
August 23, 2007, 02:49 PM
there are many European revolvers taht are solid frame and double action, without swing out cylingers

Huh... Learn something new every day. Thanks!

Jim Watson
August 23, 2007, 02:51 PM
The revolver in pictures 1 - 2 is as said, probably a S&W Model 686 .357 Magnum, maybe a 629 .44 Magnum or 625 .45 Colt. Not a 625 .45 ACP, the cylinder is too long.

The one in 3-4 is a European DA solid frame/siderod ejector. Leading suspect is an 1873 French 11mm, made famous in 'The Mummy'. But it will take better pictures to be sure - or pick something different.

PILMAN
August 23, 2007, 02:53 PM
Thanks for identifying the 1st revolver. The 2nd one, that's the best pictures I can get, it's only displayed once in the movie.

PILMAN
August 23, 2007, 02:58 PM
So it's a 686 or a 629? Someone mentioned the chambers too big to be a .357

6_gunner
August 23, 2007, 02:58 PM
I also think the mystery revolver might be a St. Etienne m1873, or possibly the similar-looking 8mm m1892.

hexidismal
August 23, 2007, 03:01 PM
So it's a 686 or a 629? Someone mentioned the chambers too big to be a .357
Well not just that, like I said, it's the 5" barrel that gives it away as the 629.

I think Ive got it ! Jim WAtson got me to thinking about french pistols. This sure looks like it doesn't it ?

Modele d’Ordonnance Improved M1872 often called "Saint-Etienne" after the factory in which they were made. M1874 is the same gun with a fluted cylinder

http://www.oldrifles.com/ofren-1-n_70.jpg
http://www.oldrifles.com/ofren-2-n_70.jpg

PILMAN
August 23, 2007, 03:08 PM
hmm it does look similar, the movie takes place in Sierra Leone, would this type of revolver be common there?

PILMAN
August 23, 2007, 03:23 PM
Hexi, I looked through the movie and the revolver looks exactly the same cosmetically, the only difference is the cylinder, it looks like there are some grooves there but other than that, it looks exactly the same.

hexidismal
August 23, 2007, 03:34 PM
By 'grooves', do you mean that the cylinder is fluted ? The quote above in my post with the pics (I took the quote off the webiste I found the pics on) does mention the exact same gun having a fluted cylinder in the M1874 model.

heres the site I found them on
http://www.oldrifles.com/french-pistols.htm

PILMAN
August 23, 2007, 03:41 PM
Not sure what fluted means but it definitely has the exact cosmetic appearance to what you listed by close comparison. Shame it's difficult to get better pictures as the camera isn't really on focus with the gun.

hexidismal
August 23, 2007, 03:55 PM
Oh. Cylinder flutes are the external cutouts for reducing weight without losing much strength in between the chambers. Fluted cylinders are most common on modern revolvers. Pictures are worth a thousand words though

Unfluted cylinder
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/150157_large.jpg

Fluted Cylinders
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j110/hexidismal29/3revsmiths1.jpg

PILMAN
August 23, 2007, 03:57 PM
ah ok, thanks for that information. Yes the picture of that 2nd revolver is confusing, on one side it appears to be unfluted, the other side it looks like it is fluted. You can see this on the 4th picture where it looks like there are grooves. It could be the angle of the picture though.

hexidismal
August 23, 2007, 04:00 PM
I did notice that. I wondered about that myself. I suppose its possible that they could have switched similar guns by mistake in between takes. I notice that happening fairly often in movies...hehe

GunTech
August 23, 2007, 04:06 PM
I'd say hexidismal nailed it. I'm not sure the picture shows flutes on the cylinder. The hump in front of the trigger guard is pretty unique, and not featured on most later French ordnane revolvers.

The Chamelot-Delvigne that I mentioned, the Army Officer's Model M1874, also known as the 'Saint-Etienne' is identical to the M1873 except it has a fluted cylinder

here is a very poor example

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20francaise/artisans%20c%20d/chamelot%20mod%201874-01.jpg

It is definitely not an M1892 (erroriously called the 'Lebel'), which has a blunt frame in front of the trigger guard.

http://www.shootingtips.com/NewFiles/article/Pistols%20&%20Revolvers%20in%20the%20Conflict/PRC5%20M1892/M1892-revolver-1.jpg

SDC
August 23, 2007, 04:14 PM
As an ex-French possession, I think you could expect to find an ex-French revolver like a St. Etienne there, but that may be giving the film a little too much credit (have they ever really given too much attention to getting anything firearms-related "right"?)

PILMAN
August 23, 2007, 04:18 PM
SDC, that is true however some movies have made a effort to try and make things as realistic as possible. Heat is a perfect example where they kept all the original sounds in place, in Blood Diamond, Danny constantly checks his chamber and fires an AK47 in a single burst or semi auto most of the time, not straight out full auto. They actually did a pretty good job with firearm realism in the movie.

Onmilo
August 25, 2007, 03:37 PM
The first revolver looks to be a Smith and Wesson Model 686 L frame .357 magnum, a suprisingly common revolver in the Africa gun trade.
The second revolver is a French Service revolver Chamelot-Delvigne design Army revolver Model 1873 11mm caliber.
The picture shows this because,
The 1872 Model has a full octagon barrel, a manual safety lever on the right side of the frame, and cylinder flutes. Not this revolver.
The 1874 Model has cylinder flutes, a half round barrel and a very pronounced bulbous head on the end of the cylider pin. Not this revolver either.

As stated in previous posts, the Belgian revolvers differ from the French in the shape and design of the trigger guard.

It is my understanding that it is quite common to find French Gras rifles still being used in the Sudan and Yemen.

French service pistols, especially M1935s 7.65 caliber French Long, of both versions, and 9mm MAC Model 50s and PA-15s along with Manhurin produced copies of the Walther PP and PPK in all calibers can be found throughout the continent.

What the movie "Blood Diamond" did get wrong is having the main character armed with a Glock 26 early on and the an H&K 9mm USP later in the movie.
Neither of these pistols would have been available in Africa in the time period the movie portrayed.

Better choices, in my opinion, for the main character would have been a Star Model B 9mm Parabellum and if he was really Saavy, a Model 1911A1 .45 Auto.

barman
August 27, 2007, 05:01 PM
Yes, it is definitely a Mle 1873. I have one to compare it with!

I'm looking forward to find another one of these babies, I just love them.
That's a gun with some serious history (first double action revolver ever adopted by a large standing army).

Here a list of the conflicts it's been used into:

1878-1884: Conquest of Gabon
1880: protectorate on Congo
1880-1895: Conquest of Sudan
1881: Insurrection in the Sahara
1883: Conquest of Tunisia
1883-1885: Tonkin war
1885: Conquest of Madagascar
1888: creation of Djibouti
1889: protectorate on Ivory Coast
1891: Occupation of Nigeria
1892: Protectorate on Dahomey
1894: Tombouctou
1896: Conquest of "Haute-volta"
1897-1912: Conquest of Tchad
1898: Fachoda
1914: WW1
1940: WW2

Over 350 000 were produced.

MikePGS
August 27, 2007, 05:17 PM
Hey Pilman, are you doing the IMFDB website? If so, very nice job.

Deanimator
August 27, 2007, 06:01 PM
Modele d’Ordonnance Improved M1872 often called "Saint-Etienne" after the factory in which they were made. M1874 is the same gun with a fluted cylinder

Brendan Frasier has a couple of these in one or both of the "Mummy" movies.

barman
September 5, 2007, 09:57 AM
Here are mine, I finally bought a second one:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v712/river_of_deceit/revolver/DSC00024.jpg

The top one is from 1881, the bottom one was made in 1882. They're both great shooters.

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