[miatchguy]

I'm looking for an M16 to go with the Shrike; I want the Colt M16A2 but I can't seem to find any pre-bans, does anyone know where I can find some, do they even exist?:confused: Could someone help me out? (i don't know how many times i've said that.)

[Justin]

You can't buy an M16 unless you're willing to go through the BATFE paperwork 'n' hoops to get an NFA Title II stamp. But first you'll have to find a Class III dealer with an M16 for sale. You'll probably be lucky to find one for under $8,000.

I honestly don't think that getting a full-auto or burst-enabled gun is worth the hassle the feds put you through. Better to get a straight up AR15 for less than $1,000.

[miatchguy]

Yeah, but it's pretty stupid to buy a Shrike if it were just going to be on a AR-15; you don't see too many belt fed semi-autos, plus the upper would cost more than three times than the actually gun. Besides that's just something I'm looking at, some people believe having a full auto is worth all the money and paperwork, I just want to find out for myself.

[Badger Arms]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you just get a .223 belt fed like the FN 249? There is a reason why Colt tried NUMEROUS times to field a belt-fed M-16 and FAILED NUMEROUS TIMES. That should tell you something. If you want one, spend the $10,000 to $15,000 that the exercise will probably cost you in the end. If that makes you happy, go for it. I'd choose a different direction, to be sure.

[Hkmp5sd]

For one thing, there are not as many A2s around. It was only on the scene for a few years before the '86 ban froze everything. Also, why put a belt fed upper on a lower with only a 3-round burst? The A2 was created because the government decided its cheaper to use a mechanical fix instead of teaching soldiers proper trigger control, which takes actually shooting the rifle with real ammunition.

[Nero Steptoe]

"Yeah, but it's pretty stupid to buy a Shrike..."


Yep.

[gun-fucious]

when is the next Knob Creek shoot?
plenty of class II savy doods in TN that weekend
http://www.biggerhammer.net/mgshoot/kcrfall2k/

ya might want to email Ruben Mendiola:
http://www.dealernfa.com

there is also Bowers boards...
http://www.subguns.com/c2c3/c2c3.htm

http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/?db=nfafirearms&category=All+Items+in+this+Category&query=category&search_and_display_db_button=on&results_format=headlines

FOR SALE: Colt M16A1/M4 "HB" package

Expires On: 09/27/2003

Date Posted: 06/29/2003
Price: $13,500
Text of Ad

Colt M16A1 lower receiver, Colt 921HB heavy barreled M4 upper, Colt "new style" M4 buttstock, Knight's RAS, preban Beta C-mag and (7) preban DPMS black teflon mags in a fitted Starlight case. Nice collectors piece. Fired very little, runs flawless and all items are in 95% condition. Buyer pays all transfers, taxes and shipping. On form 4 in Nevada. No trades please. Thank you.

[Hkmp5sd]

I disagree with the concept that a belt-fed upper is stupid simply because Colt never produced a successful one. Ciener had been marketing one since the 80s and there is an 8mm MG-34 upper that is completely reliable. The Shrike has been on the drawing board for a while and may very well be a reliable belt-fed conversion for an M16 lower.

[miatchguy]

Ok, nevermind about the A2 I didn't realize that it was only a burst, would an A1 be a better choice since I'm really only going to use the lower with the Shrike?

[Hkmp5sd]

The A1 would be ok. You may want to look for a transferrable DIAS (Drop-In Auto Sear) and convert your AR to full auto. They are getting hard to find these days, but it may save you a few thousand $$$. They used to sell for about $3,000-$4,000 as opposed to $8,000+ for an A1.

[miatchguy]

Yeah, but I would prefer to stay within the legal limits.

[Hkmp5sd]

A registered DIAS is legal. DIAS Information (http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/dias.html) .

[miatchguy]

Really, I thought all conversions to full auto were illegal. Where can I find one?

[Badger Arms]

A Registered DIAS is considered a Machinegun in and of itself. As for it being stupid to put a belt-fed upper on an AR-15, I'll stick with that assertion conditionally. If you intend to also shoot other uppers on it, it might be advantageous to have a receiver that is easilly convertible. My point about Colt never making a successful one has more to do with the fact that purpose-designed belt fed guns that have tens of thousands of examples to work out the production bugs are gong to be more reliable. The Army did want commonality and did want a belt-fed AR-15 it's just that one that was practical, reliable, and had a large enough degree of interchangability didn't materialize and still hasn't.

[Hkmp5sd]

My point about Colt never making a successful one has more to do with the fact that purpose-designed belt fed guns that have tens of thousands of examples to work out the production bugs are gong to be more reliable.

Yep. I agree with that 100%. Of course, if it wasn't for the '86 ban, there would not be a market for conversions such as the Shrike. Us lowly serfs have to live with what the ruling elite allow us to possess.

[miatchguy]

Well Ok, I may look at some other belt feds; but I still mainly want an M16 or a full-auto AR15 so where could I find a DIAS?

[Hkmp5sd]

Finding one is the hard part. You look for them at the same place you look for other NFA items, Class III dealers. If you have a local Class III dealer, which you will need at some point anyway, ask him to see if he can get you a price for one. Try all of the online NFA dealers.

It's been 17 years since that last ones were registered. Along with registered sears for HKs and Uzis, the source is starting to dry up.

[Reason]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you just get a .223 belt fed like the FN 249? There is a reason why Colt tried NUMEROUS times to field a belt-fed M-16 and FAILED NUMEROUS TIMES. That should tell you something. If you want one, spend the $10,000 to $15,000 that the exercise will probably cost you in the end. If that makes you happy, go for it. I'd choose a different direction, to be sure.There's only a handful of transferrable 249s out there, and one just sold at CCFA for $72,000.

[miatchguy]

Well Ok then, maybe i should try to just drop the whole belt-fed thing all together.:cuss:

[miatchguy]

Besides, about the DIAS, the only one I've found so far costs $8,500. That's the same price I found an M16 for. I think I'll just skip a couple of steps and go for the M16.

[Hkmp5sd]

Sounds like a good idea. I didn't know they had went up that much. Don't give up the hunt. Just realize it is going to be a long, slow and expensive endeavor. Of course, the real expense isn't in acquiring a machinegun, it is in feeding it! :)

[uglygun]

why put a belt fed upper on a lower with only a 3-round burst?


That would be my first question as well. Though the "A2" variant by gov't. specifications means that a burst group is an integral part of that upgrade, to Colt and the civilian market "A2" does not neccesarily mean it has to be a burst limited rifle. On the civilian market "A2" to me means it has all the little structual reinforcements or other changes aside from the trigger group change that is part of the gov't. M16 A2s. Ever see the Colt website where they call pretty much everything an M16 A2?

Even if he got a burst limited A2 variant he could junk the burst group and easily/quickly turn it to a safe/semi/full capable firearm, or even put a 4 position kit into it.

Though I'm betting you already know all this.



miatchguy, there is a LONG list of people waiting for a SHRIKE upper with quite a few people having already put money down towards the day the SHRIKE finally lands. If you aren't on the list yet you will have a VERY long wait until they finally getting around to producing yours.

Get an M16 if that is what you are wanting, A2 variant or whatever, but better to do that part of it sooner than later rather than wait around and try to do a SHRIKE and M16 together.

[miatchguy]

Yeah that's what I was planning on anyway, I can have some fun with the M16 :D until I get my hands on a Shrike.

[miatchguy]

THAT'S IT! Now I'm sure I'm getting the Shrike; I've been torn so far because of what people have been telling me, but I have just recieved a message from GOD! I looked at my profile and noticed that I have made 58 posts so far, for as long I've been signed up that's exactly 5.56 posts per day. 5.56! Like the Shrike 5.56 ! IS THAT A MESSAGE TELLING YOU SOMETHIN' OR WHAT!!!
:D