Since my wife stole my pistol...


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Aaryq
August 23, 2007, 11:42 PM
Howdy folks. Here's the situation. My wife went out shooting with me for the first time a few weeks ago. My Ruger P89 (9mm) is now hers and I've been authorized to buy a new handgun (she handles the bills). I'm deploying to Iraq in October until May-ish so I'll have about double wages for 7 months. I'm looking to pick up an 870, 10/22, 91/30, Enfield, and AR when I get back, but our budget still allows for another gun. As long as I have an 870 and 10/22 my gun "needs" will be fufilled. The reason I tell you this is because since I've been authorized to buy a new handgun by the Chief of Staff (the wife), I have no budget for this gun. Now I will get into criteria:

It needs to be small enough for a CCW
I'd like it chambered in 9mm +P+ (if they make it) but it's not mandatory
It needs to be easy to feed. What I mean is it needs to have a reputation to digest anything I feed it and the practice ammo needs to be easy on the wallet (CCW ammo can cost what it needs to cost to keep my family alive).
It needs to have CCW holsters that are fairly common.
I'd like to spend less than 550 for it but I can spend more
Comments, questions, gripes and concerns?

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CPshooter
August 24, 2007, 02:40 AM
What size are we talking here.. A Kahr PM9, or possibly the new Kel-Tec PF-9??? They both fit your description. Perfect size for CCW, both have very nice and light DAO triggers for safe carry AND accuracy. Both digest +P and have cheap 9mm practice ammo readily available.

As far as feeding anything reliably, you will probably need to go with a larger sub-compact gun like a Glock 26, M&Pc, Walther P99 A/S, HK P2000sk, XDsc9, etc. in order to get an all-around more forgiving gun. Keep in mind that although these guns are small enough for most people to carry, they are significantly heavier and harder to conceal than a thin, light gun like the PM9 or PF-9.

It all depends on what you like, but for a deep CCW 9mm that shoots +P ammo, the Kel-Tec PF-9 cannot be beat for around $250 IMO. The Kahr would cost more than twice as much, and it would suck to drop that kind of dough on a gun that was a lemon from the factory. I know this because I spent $600 on a PM9 that was a total POS. Lost out big time on that one...that's not to say you won't get a good one, but for $600 bucks I don't know if you should take the chance like I did since you are looking for great reliability/feeding. Besides, if you ever used it in a self-defense situation it would be confiscated immediately and held as evidence by the police for who knows how long..maybe permanently. So once again, it really is up to you to figure out what suits you (and your wife) best. Good luck!

ugaarguy
August 24, 2007, 03:54 AM
It needs to be small enough for a CCW
By small enough are we talking medium frame auto like a Glock 19 or Browning Hi-Power which are easily concealed IWB on the belt, or are we talking Kel-Tec PF9/Rohrbaugh R9/Kahr PM9 for pocket carry?

kir_kenix
August 24, 2007, 05:40 AM
what about the new beretta storm compact? im not sure it is out right now, but it sure will be when you get back. i am seriously considering looking at this new compact when i get home. i really like the full size storm, so a more totable version would be just about perfect as far as im concerned. it also falls squarely into your price range as well.

JLStorm
August 24, 2007, 06:09 AM
I like the HK P2000 series either the compact or the sub compact. You can find some lightly used ones for close to your price range. I am an HK snob, but besides the whole dependability factor and HK snobbery, it is very ergonomic and slim for a double stack....its worth picking up and handling, even the sub compact which can be concealed in a pocket allows me a full grip on it and I dont have small hands (although they arent abnormally large either).

HM2PAC
August 24, 2007, 07:44 AM
I've been thinking about this same question. I'm a .45ACP fan, but the 9mm is becoming more appealing as another caliber to have around.

So far the 9's I like are the HK P2000 and the Walther P99. I would also like to try the new Springfield EMP.

I can attest to the P2000's accuracy and ease of shooting. It is like any other HK, rock solid.

mavracer
August 24, 2007, 08:27 AM
with your criteria and since you already have a p-89 I would suggest a P-94 or 95.mag interchange and same controlls this would also free up enough money for a keltec p3at or pf9 for pocket carry.

reppondj
August 24, 2007, 10:51 AM
If your not stuck on the 9mm take a look at the Ruger P345. I have a Beretta 92FS, Ruger P89 and the P345. Recoil is very mild, slim design (I use it as CCW daily), very accurate, and most of all very affordable well under your limit. I have yet to experience a malfunction in over 2k rounds thru it. The only problem I had was the mags were sticking at first but after just a short while on the range they are now as smooth as glass.

Neophyte1
August 24, 2007, 12:42 PM
Aaryq: Sir; first a thanks for defending the rights of others.
Your criteria is tough.
Not busting the Bank. yet small enough; economical to shoot.
Kahr is the first choice; only to raise cain with a budget
Tarus? maybe reliability
Smith? look at the trigger. not to good. fragile
Glock 17? probably the best; a little large
HK expensive
XD not to leave out; OTB sweet trigger. Fat

I'm a fan of the XD and a Glock kind of person,
The G17 will do all

Be safe in your Journey

Black Majik
August 24, 2007, 02:29 PM
Glock 17/19/23
M&P 9 / compact
XD9 / Sc

All those are polymer, lightweight and offered in a variety of sizes. Very durable, reliable, and great shooters. All under $550.


Beretta 92FS: Great range gun, too bulky for CCW pistol
CZ-75. Slim, accurate, good ergos, you can also look into compact version.

$550+ I'd echo everyone else and get a HK P2000. That's what I chose to carry, and do with relative ease.

jpwilly
August 25, 2007, 01:43 AM
+1 for Glock compact!

Crazy4nitro
August 25, 2007, 02:40 AM
Hmm, 9MM +P+

Try a .357 snubbie

Crazy4nitro

ugaarguy
August 25, 2007, 03:41 AM
Smith? look at the trigger. not to good. fragile
Which S&W are you referring to? I've never known any S&W to have a fragile trigger, nor any other fragile part for that matter.

Back to the original topic, Walther's new PPS might be what you're looking for. They're currently available in 9mm, but 'only' +P rated not +P+. Supposedly 40 S&W is in the works.

Prince Yamato
August 25, 2007, 04:22 AM
CZ Raimi.

Neophyte1
August 25, 2007, 12:39 PM
ugaarguy: Sir; M&P's little swinging thing'ee
Explored one Thursday of this week. Fragile looking
Stand to be corrected over time

Craig

byf43
August 25, 2007, 02:13 PM
I have no budget for this gun. Now I will get into criteria:

It needs to be small enough for a CCW
I'd like it chambered in 9mm +P+ (if they make it) but it's not mandatory
It needs to be easy to feed. What I mean is it needs to have a reputation to digest anything I feed it and the practice ammo needs to be easy on the wallet (CCW ammo can cost what it needs to cost to keep my family alive).
It needs to have CCW holsters that are fairly common.
I'd like to spend less than 550 for it but I can spend more
Comments, questions, gripes and concerns?



Glock G19 or the G23. (Same size frame.)
If you get the G23 (.40 S&W) you can get a conversion barrel and be able to shoot 9mm. The only other changeout would be magazines (and some say the ejector).
Pistol cost - near $500. Active Military and Police can get Glocks for around $400.00 with ID, from LEO stocking dealers.

The G19 is probably the best all-around 9mm pistol IMO. (I say this, even though I own not only a G19, but, a Beretta 92FS!)
Great warranty, great reputation.
It will also handle +p or +p+.

Practice ammo - WWB 9mm at Wally World is going up. It was $14.74 per 100 round box. The last I saw was $15.74 and was sold out.
As of 09/01/07 ammo is going up, again!
Cheap practice ammo??? That's going to be a thing of the past, quickly. Learn to reload.

CCW holsters can be had, for a reasonable price. Don Hume is one that comes to mind.

Aaryq
August 25, 2007, 04:17 PM
Here's the thing. I really don't like glocks. I've shot them and they don't feel good in my hands, the don't line up with my eyes, I'm not a glock man. The XD's are nice but maybe I'm old school, but I like a NO CRAP SAFETY on my gun (if it's a revolver).

I want a CCW pistol.
I want the caliber to have a reputation to work for CCL
F the ammo. I want it in a common handgun cartridge. My life and my family's life has more value than money. As long as I can buy it somewhere (I don't reload) I don't care about price. Will this help your criteria?

The Lone Haranguer
August 25, 2007, 05:20 PM
If you don't like Glocks, how about the Smith & Wesson M&Ps? I've had outstanding reliability from my 9mm compact (in terms of size it is between the Glock 26 and 30), and even the full-size is not overly large, being about the size of a Glock 17 or SIG P226. It is much more comfortable to hold (and the size and shape of the grip can be adjusted) and points better than the Glock. I just use standard pressure ammo in it. I don't think any maker warranties their guns with +P+ ammo, but use of it to establish reliability and occasional practice surely could do no harm.

There are two areas in which it falls short of perfection: there are not a lot of "off-the-rack" holsters for the compact, and replacement magazines are a bit pricey, around $39-ish. Galco is making most of their lineup for the full-size; I had my compact one custom made by UBG.

hapuna
August 25, 2007, 05:38 PM
It needs to be small enough for a CCW
I'd like it chambered in 9mm +P+ (if they make it) but it's not mandatory
It needs to be easy to feed. What I mean is it needs to have a reputation to digest anything I feed it and the practice ammo needs to be easy on the wallet (CCW ammo can cost what it needs to cost to keep my family alive).
It needs to have CCW holsters that are fairly common.
I'd like to spend less than 550 for it but I can spend more
Comments, questions, gripes and concerns?

This sounds like the design specs for a Glock 19!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

MikePGS
August 25, 2007, 05:43 PM
I've heard good things about Baby Eagles, and they come in both compact and subcompact.

orionengnr
August 25, 2007, 05:52 PM
First off, thank you for your service to our Country.

I absolutely love my Kahr PM9. It is with me 24/7. Light, thin, accurate, reliable and capable of +p and +p+...although I don't (can't afford to) put thousands of high-$ rounds through it.

If your budget is not constrained, take a look at the Springfield EMP. If you are a 1911 guy, it is 9/10 scale, 9mm jewel. Also like a jewel, it is not cheap.

The PM9 works beautifully for pocket carry (14 oz). The EMP, though not much larger, would be better at IWB due to it's weight (24 oz).

For me, "double-stack" anything and "concealed carry" are mutually exclusive. Glocks, XDs, so on..been there, tried that, sold 'em and moved on.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

col_tapiocca
August 25, 2007, 06:07 PM
What's about a Walther PPS? It's brand-new, here in good old Europe. I don't know it's avaiable in the US now. But it's a very nice carry gun.

Here is a link:
http://www.carl-walther.info/dev2/index.php?company=walther&lang=EN&content=products&hid=2&uid=5&product=846

Geno
August 25, 2007, 06:11 PM
P35 or G19C

byf43
August 25, 2007, 06:17 PM
Aaryq wrote:
Here's the thing. I really don't like glocks. I've shot them and they don't feel good in my hands, the don't line up with my eyes, I'm not a glock man. The XD's are nice but maybe I'm old school, but I like a NO CRAP SAFETY on my gun (if it's a revolver).

I want a CCW pistol.
I want the caliber to have a reputation to work for CCL
F the ammo. I want it in a common handgun cartridge. My life and my family's life has more value than money.
As long as I can buy it somewhere (I don't reload) I don't care about price. Will this help your criteria?



I'll try to help, one more time - - -

What is a NO CRAP SAFETY on my gun (if it's a revolver).
???

You want a CCW pistol and would like to have it at / near $550.
This is narrowing the field, quickly, in today's money. Now, I'll suggest a used Combat Commander (or some other manufacturer's pistol of the same size/configuration) in 9mm or .45 acp.

F the ammo. I want it in a common handgun cartridge. My life and my family's life has more value than money.

I really don't understand that comment. I was trying to let you know where (fairly) inexpensive practice ammo could be found.
9mm is a common handgun cartridge. It has been since 1908, or so.
And like everyone else, I too, believe that MY family's life is of more value than money.
I really don't understand your comment, above.
I (like the other respondents) are just trying to help you. Sorry, you asked for the help.


I'm not trying to be argumentive, Aaryq.
F the ammo. I want it in a common handgun cartridge. My life and my family's life has more value than money. As long as I can buy it somewhere (I don't reload) I don't care about price. Will this help your criteria?

My criteria???
All I was trying to do is give you some examples of what is available.
I'm trying to come up with something for YOUR criteria!

You mentioned a revolver. . . . .

Something from Smith & Wesson. Model 36 is a common caliber. (.38 Special)
or the S&W model 19 in .357 magnum.

Good luck finding something in your criteria for CCW.

And thank you for your service to this GREAT country of ours.

Neophyte1
August 26, 2007, 11:46 AM
Aaryq: Sir: it appears that your assessments are quite to the point.
I left out one because of your price guidelines.
Kahr p9; p40 are the same size with bullet exceptions
tough, rugged, accurate [at least in the ones I've shot]

Test Report: Kahr p40: out of the box: I loaded; my friend shot; and shot, and shot. He loaded for me and I shot, and shot, and shot at the end of a 225 box of somethings from Dicks Sporting Goods.
Not nary a complaint, not nary a gripe, not nary a miss fire, not a failure to fire. Not nary of a jam.
Do I want one:: NO::
Am I satisfied my shooting buddy has a good unit.
Yes
Can you buy your ammo locally? Should. 9mm .40 awfully plentiful around here.
Gripe about one mag. holding 7 rounds
Gripe about one mag. holding 6 rounds
The way it comes in the Box
Gripe: Cause it wore my thumb out loading

Is it accurate: We did fairly good.
Recoil: it's a .40

Craig

another okie
August 26, 2007, 11:53 AM
I carry either a Taurus ti snubbie (13 ounces) or a Glock 26. Both are great, and it's good to have both. I can't always conceal the glock. Some people have had great experiences with Kahrs and Kel tecs, but I don't yet trust semi automatics smaller than the Glock 26.

Squidward
August 28, 2007, 09:05 PM
Why not buy another P89?

No need to learn another platform
mag exchanges between both pistols
same ammo
can do duty as a CCW

rantingredneck
August 28, 2007, 09:10 PM
Even better a P95. Takes the same mags, same manual of arms, smaller and lighter for carry. Will go bang every time and shoot with guns that cost twice as much.

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