Rohrbaugh 9


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tackleberry45
August 24, 2007, 02:54 PM
Does anyone and can comment on ths pocket gun? Costs a lot but I have seen a lot of pro/con threads on Kel-Tec and Kahr as far as reliability. I would to just purchase a pocket auto and have it run right out of the box. Maybe a Seecamp .380??? .380 or 9 caliber does not really matter as much as being able to pocket conceal it.

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Noxx
August 24, 2007, 02:59 PM
I hear nothing but good things about the R9, a friend of mine in NM swears by it as his CCW.

Costly tho. A thousand bux is a lot for six rounds.

gbelleh
August 24, 2007, 03:47 PM
I heard somewhere (don't know if it's true) that the Rohrbaugh's recoil spring needs to be changed at ridiculously short intervals, like every 50 rounds. Is there any truth to this?

Ghost Tracker
August 24, 2007, 04:49 PM
It's the Rolex of 9mm Pocket Pistols. Precise, exclusive, expensive, effective, with tons of gun-snob appeal. Don't misunderstand, I LIKE 'em!

But you can't ALWAYS count on expensive translating into corresponding absolute reliability. $1000 is a LOT to pay for a 6 rd. 9mm autoloader. And they expressly prohibit shooting 9mm +P.

The steel-framed Kahr pistols have very few reported reliability issues. For the kind of money that a R9 costs, you could send your Kahr K9 Micro to Bill Laughridge @ Cylinder & Slide for a reliability fluff & buff. And STILL buy some nice carry leather with the change. After the C&S treatment, I don't believe there would be ANY remaining questions about reliability. And Kahrs can run +P ammo. Just a thought...

Noxx
August 24, 2007, 05:30 PM
I heard somewhere (don't know if it's true) that the Rohrbaugh's recoil spring needs to be changed at ridiculously short intervals, like every 50 rounds. Is there any truth to this?

I downloaded the manual with the intent of debunking that, and what do you know...

They recommend replacing the spring every 100 rounds. Wow.

EDIT ~ It also requires a tool to strip.

MaterDei
August 24, 2007, 05:33 PM
They recommend replacing the spring every 100 rounds

YIKES!!!!!!

Noxx
August 24, 2007, 05:36 PM
Finished reading their manual. Their theory of operation is that this is a last-ditch, close-quarters weapon.

Sights? won't need em.
Longevity of parts? Sacrificed for weight.
Manual Safety? No time to operate it.

Certainly, after reading their literature I've realized they've consigned themselves to a very, very narrow niche market.

However, within that niche, they do make just the thing.

Ghost Walker
August 24, 2007, 05:46 PM
About three years ago I attended a factory demonstration given by the owner's brother (or brother-in-law?). You would think that Rohrbaugh would have brought the best they had to show off to a group of more than 150 gunmen; but, no, that demonstration pistol was a piece of crap!

The factory rep stayed on the line all day long and wasn't able to get that little pistol to consecutively fire more than 1/2 dozen shots without jamming. When I was offered a chance to shoot it I simply declined; I'd already seen enough to know that I'd never own one.

In fairness, though, I've heard of a few guys who have Rohrbaugh R-9's that operate flawlessly; however, if it were my $1,000.00, I would definitely buy something else.

Soybomb
August 24, 2007, 05:49 PM
I thought seriously of buying one but after spending some time reading other owners experiences on the rohrbaugh forums I decided against it. For the price it seems too prone to have issues, it won't fire +P rounds, 147gr rounds, and even seems picky with other jhp's. I'd check out the forums before dropping the cash.

Anna's Dad
August 24, 2007, 06:06 PM
The spring change frequency (and the price) have always been a concern of mine.

I saw Mr. Rohrbaugh demostrating the take down of the gun at the 2007 Shot Show and, while I believe he did use a tool, it was fairly quick and easy. Changing the spring is a no-brainer as well.

I think I can get past the spring change and the tool needed to breakdown, but $1000 seems high. I've never spent more than $600 for a gun.

Noxx
August 24, 2007, 07:22 PM
I have a couple of $1000 guns, however either of them will fire thousands of rounds without so much as a cleaning, much less replacement of parts.

So yeah, agree there that it doesn't seem you get what you pay for.

DAdams
August 24, 2007, 11:58 PM
I don't own one at this point in time although I am evaluating and considering one.
Before jumping to conclusions one way or another it would be advised to spend some time reviewing the Forum discussions.
http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/
Definitely an niche conceal carry pistol.
Also in this genre consider Seecamp and NAA for something in a small format. Although the R9 is a 9mm as opposed to 32 or 380.
It's a rule of threes concealed carry weapon. The majority of anti social events happen within 3 yards, three rounds, and 3 seconds.
The spring issue change out frequency is no big deal. IMO.

stevemis
August 25, 2007, 12:08 AM
Until this thread, I never heard of them. My initial impression was "Jennings" made on fancy equipment and priced accordingly.

If you want to blow a bunch of money on a pocket autoloader, give the Colt Mustang PocketLite a look. I don't think they're made anymore, so used might be your only option. I have one in stainless.... it's a safe queen.

Steve

Anna's Dad
August 25, 2007, 11:05 AM
The gun is beautiful and appears to be very well made. The need to replace springs so frequently is a result of the very small frame and the power of the caliber.

I think they are good guns, just not for me or for most people. I guarantee you I would buy one if they decided to have a 50% off clearance.

Highland Ranger
August 25, 2007, 12:17 PM
Someone on THR was involved with the development if I recall correctly.

Was it P95Carry?

Anyway - do a search.

In the meantime, more info here: http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/

At the time it came out it seemed like the little pistol was getting quite a cult following and there was a long wait for them. I beleive the factory moved at one point as well from Farmingdale (Long Island) to somewhere else on Long Island.

I also think they have worked out the reliability issues.

The question is, for the size differerential (see here: Bobo's Pocket Auto Comparison (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=171820&highlight=bobo+pocket)) is it worth the extra $$$$$.

saltydog452
August 25, 2007, 12:39 PM
Although the idea of a handy size 9X19 is a good thing these days, I can't understand Rohrbaugh offering their product w/o a slide lock.

The PPK doesn't have one either and its been around for 75 years or so, but there are other choices available in both calibers.

salty.

JohnBT
August 25, 2007, 11:14 PM
I bought a used one a couple of months ago. When I ordered recoil springs I was told the new ones were good for 250 rounds. Seriously folks, how much are you going to shoot a 9mm that weighs 17 ounces loaded? And that's 6 in the mag and one in the chamber - 7.

I shot mine 101 rounds the first time out before it started wearing me down. It's a pocket gun after all. Seventeen ounces, loaded.

For comparison, a BHP weighs 32 ounces empty. I have one of those too. And a CZ-75B. They're no pocket pistols.

I surely got my money's worth, and don't believe the lack of the additional 100 fps that +P ammo would provide is a big deal, especially out of a very short barrel.

John

RyanM
August 25, 2007, 11:54 PM
Inability to use 147 gr ammo pretty much kills the R9 for me. If I had a 9mm, 147 gr Remington Golden Saber is about the only ammo I'd be willing to use. IIRC, they also usually have much lower muzzle velocities for the exact same ammo compared to the MK9, because the R9's barrel isn't rifled for the first inch or so, while the Kahr has polygonal rifling.

Personally, I bought an MK40 and haven't looked back. Runs like a champ, recoil isn't bad at all, and it definitely packs a whallop.

mjrodney
August 26, 2007, 05:42 AM
A friend owns the Rohrbaugh and I've watched it in action at the range. He was kind enough to let me put a few rounds through it, as well.

It certainly appears to function well enough and it is definitely a fine piece of machinery......well made.....but, when I side by side compare it to the Kel-Tec P3AT, I can only conclude that the additional refinement in manufacturing technique that the Rohrbaugh possesses, and the vast difference in cost, does not necessarily translate into a more effective defensive weapon.

Neither would the increase in caliber at the up close and personal distances in which either would be used.

The energy produced by the .380 is similar to that of the .38 Special, and history would suggest that to be sufficient at short distances.

Recoil wise, both are stout.

The very few feeding issues I've seen with either handgun have always occurred AFTER the first shot.

It's only after the shooter experiences the recoil of the first shot and then, anticipating the recoil of the second and subsequent shots, they limp wrist these little guys.

Either handgun demands a firm hold.

JohnBT
August 26, 2007, 10:59 AM
"Inability to use 147 gr ammo pretty much kills the R9 for me."

From what I've read on various forums, quite a few R9 owners carry 147 gr ammo, including the Rem GS.


"the R9's barrel isn't rifled for the first inch or so"

:confused: Um, almost all of that is the chamber. You know, where the ammo goes. Have you actually seen an R9? The freebore - how far the bullet has to jump to reach the rifling - is 1/4th of an inch. That's 0.25". The majority of guns ever made have freebore (some match chambers don't), but the R9 needed a little extra to reduce the pressure spike.


"energy produced by the .380 is similar to that of the .38 Special"

I'm sitting here looking at a Remington muzzle energy chart for standard velocity lead or metal case bullets:
.380 = 190
.38 Special = 255
Looks like it's more than 25% above the .380.

I haven't tossed my P-32, but the R9 has replaced it.

John

RyanM
August 26, 2007, 04:52 PM
Thought the freebore was more like 3/4" to 1" past the chamber, not 1/4". Oh, well. In any case, from what I've read, pretty much all R9s will keyhole with 147 gr JHPs at ranges past 3-5 yards. That's definitely not good.

If you're (generic you) absolutely convinced that self defense shootings are always "less than 3 rounds, less than 3 feet, less than 3 seconds," then the R9 is probably fine. But I'll definitely stick with my MK40 with actual night sights, that gets 2" groups from a rest at 25 yards (on a good day), and that works perfectly with hot handloaded ammo (180 gr at 1000 fps from the Kahr).

mjrodney
August 26, 2007, 04:56 PM
I used Speer Gold Dots as my example.

Speer Duty Ammo is 216 ft. lbs of energy for the .380 and 208 ft. lbs of energy for the .38 special.

Speer Lawman Ammo is 190 for the .380 and 211 for the .38 special.

Speer Blazar Ammo is 188 for the .380 and 200 for the .38 special.

I wouldn't be nitpicking the differences between any of these were I on the barrel and receiving end of the action.

JohnBT
August 26, 2007, 05:33 PM
I don't see any .38 Special Gold Dots. www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/ammo.aspx

They list +P, but no regular. That's why I didn't list the info the first time around. I looked at the Lawman page, but they're called Training rounds. I gave up on that site.

Oh well, we can quote manufacturers' stats all day, so I'll let it go and stick with what I like. I'd rather shoot a heavy .38 Spec. bullet than a light .380. My P-32 is loaded with hot ball ammo. Everything is a tradeoff.


"If you're (generic you) absolutely convinced that self defense shootings are always "less than 3 rounds, less than 3 feet, less than 3 seconds," then the R9 is probably fine. But I'll definitely stick with my MK40 "

If you'd rather have a heavy gun loaded with 7+1 than a light one loaded with 6+1, then have at it. Me, I rather have a loaded pocket pistol weighing 17 ounces than a MK40 weighing 25 ounces (including the mag) plus 3 or 4 more of ammo. BTW, can you hit anything with it at 25 yards without using the rest? You should try a Rohrbaugh - quite controllable considering the size.

John

gpr
August 26, 2007, 06:01 PM
if i was spending $1000, i could buy four keltecs.....good chance 3 of four would be 100% out of the box....then i would fix the last one ...gpr

RyanM
August 26, 2007, 06:48 PM
If you'd rather have a heavy gun loaded with 7+1 than a light one loaded with 6+1, then have at it. Me, I rather have a loaded pocket pistol weighing 17 ounces than a MK40 weighing 25 ounces (including the mag) plus 3 or 4 more of ammo. BTW, can you hit anything with it at 25 yards without using the rest? You should try a Rohrbaugh - quite controllable considering the size.

Heavy with 5+1, actually, but it's a .40. And the weight doesn't really bother me much. 28 ounces loaded, 6 oz. per 6-round spare mag. I have to wear a gun belt to keep my pants up, true, but it's not that much of a burden, and I do like having the idea of a .40 S&W pocket rocket.

Without the rest, I can usually keep all my rounds on a paper plate at 25 yards, if I concentrate, but I'm a terrible shot.

I'm sure the R9 is a fine gun for some, but it's definitely not for me. I like .40and I don't mind heavy.

DAdams
August 26, 2007, 07:30 PM
if i was spending $1000, i could buy four keltecs.....good chance 3 of four would be 100% out of the box....then i would fix the last one ...gpr

Good chance two out of four would work three out of four 100% might be a reach. But what the heck they have a great warranty and I really like packaging up handguns and sending them back and forth.

Yes you could have four KelTecs but it would be like riding a moped or messing about driving a Pinto. It might be fun but you wouldn't want your friends to see you with one. I'm sorry, I just can't get fired up about KelTecs except the PLR 16.

You are trying to compare a Dodge Stratus with a BMW 7 series.

mjrodney
August 26, 2007, 10:09 PM
BTW, can you hit anything with it at 25 yards without using the rest? You should try a Rohrbaugh - quite controllable considering the size.

Now I'm a dedicated bullseye shooter who does reasonably well and whenever I hear someone quote a sub 2" barrel at 25 yards, I have to wonder about the size of the target.

Ghost Walker
August 26, 2007, 11:17 PM
:) I tell you true!

I've shot PPC with a guy who, occasionally, uses a Ruger SP-101 with a 2.5" barrel. Sure, he's firing 38 wadcutters; and, he does this, 'for kicks'; but he's also one of the best shots in the club, and can consistently blow out the center of any target he aims at throughout the entire course of fire.

(Including the 25 yard line!) :eek:

The only change I've noticed on his targets is that his groups will open up to about double the size; but, still, we're talking no more than a 5 or 6 inch spread at 25 yards.

Not to brag, but, on a good day I have used my Beretta Tom Cat to slow fire an entire clip of 7 rounds into a 9" pie plate from the 25 yard line. So, I'd have to say it can be done! ;)

stormyone
August 26, 2007, 11:30 PM
If I needed something so small, I'd rather take my chances with a Kahr PM9 after a long break-in period.

mjrodney
August 26, 2007, 11:45 PM
Yes sir, Ghostwalker, it can be done, but not by anyone who doesn't spend hours and hours at the practice line, spending near most of next week's grocery money on practice rounds.

Good, consistent shooters are not born but rather they rise out of the crucible of dedicated practice. It takes work, and ammo, and lots of it.

What's the old saying?

"Even a blind pig can find an acorn once in a while".

Just don't expect it every day.

RyanM
August 26, 2007, 11:50 PM
I did say on a good day, and using a rest. I don't do much 25 yard shooting, and the average groups I get with any handgun, from a rest, are closer to 4-5". But on a good day, when the stars align, I can get 6 out of 6 shots within 2" of each other.

greg531mi
August 27, 2007, 04:04 AM
Even $1000 guns have lemons....but what I heard, they back up their product....Better than a lot of other manufacturers.....
Some people with a little extra padding, can't carry in the waist, or their Don Won's shirt is in the cleaners....
Front pocket for me....bet I can get off the first shot with my Colt Pony, while all of you are messing around with your shirt tails.....
Face it, different strokes for different folks, it's not a full size 45, but at least you carry something......

45crittergitter
August 27, 2007, 10:52 PM
I like them - very nicely made premium product.

A couple of clarifications: The R9S comes with minimal sights. The R9 does not. Same price.

Yes, it costs about what 4 Kel-Tecs cost. But no Kel-Tec 9mm is in its size class. My take on the price was that it's an "always with me" lifesaver, and I want all I can get that will always be there and that my life is worth $1000.

Finally, I've met and mingled with Karl, Eric and Maria, and they are all very nice people.

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