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alex_trebek
August 24, 2007, 04:09 PM
Way back in 2002, I was injured at work on my right hand (I am right handed). This has caused some complications when it comes to hand guns. The recoil felt can cause discomfort or pain. Currently I own a 1911 .45 ACP. I would like to get something lighter and smaller for carry, on another platform. I am thinking of getting a polymer handgun for carry.

Now the issue at hand (pun intended ;)) is I dont want to buy something that I will find uncomfortable or painful. I have been thinking of the S&W M&P 40, because of the steel reinforced polymer reciever. What I would like preferably is to get a response from someone who owns one of these.

Factors that cause the discomfort are wide grips and felt recoil in the hand. To give some examples glock .40 calibers are discomfortable for me to shoot, 44 magnums are down right painful. I can shoot 10 mm 1911's just fine, and so are glock 9mm.

So anyone who has shot both the M&P 40, and glock 23 enough to notice the recoil in the hand, please let me know how big of a difference there was.


Thanks.

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tydephan
August 24, 2007, 04:14 PM
Alex,

Sorry to hear of your discomfort.

I don't own a G23, but I own a G22 and an M&P40, so I'll share my thoughts with you.

First of all, as you have already noticed, the M&P40 is far more ergonimically advanced than the Glocks. With the 3 interchangeable backstraps, you can really fit the gun to your hand nicely.

I've never considered the recoil in the G22 to be too terrible, but it is indeed snappy. The recoil of the M&P40 is definitely less and easier to control. I tend to not get as much muzzle flip in the M&P40 as I do with the G22.

Reliability wise, I'd rate them the same. The Smith has eaten everything I've put through it and the Glock's tolerance for ammo is legendary.

The M&P is by the bed side, and the Glock is in the safe. I don't know any better way to say it.

Good luck with your decision. Too bad you're not near me, or I'd let you sample mine.

John

alex_trebek
August 24, 2007, 04:20 PM
Thank you very much tydephan. This information alone is extremely helpful, but I appreciate the thought. The discomfort/disfigurement issue is something I have gotten used to.

When i get more disposable income, I probably wont let it stop me from getting a few toys lol. Until that day, I need to spend a bit more wisely :).

Most people dont consider the glocks recoil to be bad at all, i think i am just more sensitive to it than others. This is the reason its been hard to get a good answer to my problem.

DogBonz
August 24, 2007, 04:38 PM
I would like to get something lighter and smaller for carry, on another platform. I am thinking of getting a polymer handgun for carry.

Going smaller and lighter may not be the best road. As you get smaller and lighter, the gun will impart more recoil to the shooter. Also, the 40 may not be the best caliber due to its “snappy” recoil pulse.


I too injured my hand and had to have surgery. For a while it did cause me some discomfort to shoot any thing except a 22. This was the point when I learned to love the 9mm. Luckily I have healed up pretty well. I can now shoot my 45’s and my 357’s again, but don’t think that I will ever be able to shoot full house 44’s again.

You should take a look at the HK P2000, HK USP or the SIG 229. They are great guns and the HK's (including the USP's) use an internal recoil reduction system that does dampen recoil nicely. My USP is a very "soft shooting" 45. Also, the USP's controls operate like a 1911, so they will be an easy transision.

DogBonz
August 24, 2007, 04:49 PM
Factors that cause the discomfort are wide grips and felt recoil in the hand. To give some examples glock .40 calibers are discomfortable for me to shoot, 44 magnums are down right painful. I can shoot 10 mm 1911's just fine, and so are glock 9mm.

I re-read your post and, based on what you said, I am a bit confused. You say that you the wide grips tend to hurt more, but you want to stitch to a poly gun that is wider then the 1911. If you can shoot a 10mm 1911 without pain or discomfort, and size and weight are the main issue, maybe you should look into a Browning HP, or a scandium framed 1911 commander (maybe a 9mm commander), if you can find one, the SIG 245 is a very nice carry gun and shoots very softly for a small frame 45.

alex_trebek
August 24, 2007, 04:49 PM
Thanks for the suggestion Dogbonz. I am on a somewhat limited budget, but I will keep an eye out for these as well at the gunshow tomorrow. Your injury sounds worse than mine, I am sorry to hear about your condition as well.

I just saw your update Dogbonz. Sorry for the ambiguity, I THINK the width has something to do with it. You see my injury has rendered my small finger completely unuseable, this leaves the thumb, middle and ring finger to actually grip the hand gun. The small finger is still there, but the damage to it leaves it very vunerable to cold and shock. This combined with the fact that my fingers are somewhat short and stubby, lead me to conclude that the width of double stacks might play a factor. The M&P 40 has adjustable grips. From what I understand, the hand grip can be quite narrow. Also the handgrip is steel reinforced, and supposedly designed to send the recoil to the arm, and not the hand. As I said, this is from what I have read on the M&P. No one I know owns one, so I havent had the chance for a test fire.

I know that the weight of the 1911 helps it absorb the recoil, and I would LOVE to have one of the new tricked out kimbers or S&W's. The 1911 I have is the GI .45 from springfield, hence why this was in my price range, and the others arent.

I hope this clears up any confusion.

DogBonz
August 24, 2007, 04:54 PM
If you can find a SIG factory reconditioned 229 they are about $400-500 and are reworked very nicely, they are probably the “best buy” in handguns.

Check here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=297222&highlight=reconditioned

Majic
August 24, 2007, 04:58 PM
If the Glock 9mm causes no discomfort then why not use one of those models?

alex_trebek
August 24, 2007, 05:00 PM
If the Glock 9mm causes no discomfort then why not use one of those models?

I dont want to start a debate about small and fast vs anything else. I want to leave it at I would prefer a 40 caliber or larger for carry.

Anna's Dad
August 24, 2007, 05:03 PM
If you like the ergos and reinforced polymer frame of the M&P .40 but are concerned about the snappy response of the caliber, might I suggest the M&P in 9mm. I own two of them and they are excellent guns.

rxraptor02
August 24, 2007, 05:11 PM
I live in Indiana and have two different 9mm's. One is a beretta PX4 storm. A little large but it can be CC'd. The other is a XD9sc.

If your interested I can meet you at a range to test them out.

sm
August 24, 2007, 05:12 PM
Alex,

Sorry to hear about the injury; I can only share experiences and observations I have assisted with , with similar problems and physical limitations.

1. Gun fit to shooter is real important!

2. "Rule of 96", although a Shotgun rule, this principle does apply to handgun and rifles as well.

Simply put the weight of gun in relationship to payload .

The British come up with the "rule" a Shotgun weighing 96 ounces and shooting a 1 ounce payload was a "manageable felt recoil".

Applies to any firearm, the gun weight weight to payload ratio will have a bearing on felt recoil, then if one adds any Physical Limits, this is really important!

3. 40 cal has a snappy recoil.

Real Life Folks:

a. Gentleman used to shoot 1911s and Model 19s very very well.
Arthritis set in, and I do mean RA and Pseudo Gout.
His current CCW is a Tip Up Beretta in .380.
This gun is heavy, felt recoil is real easy and he gets quick, effective shots.

b. Lady was using a Glock 26, she busted her hip and CCW-ing was downright painful.
Then she ups and messes up her shooting hand, trying to catch herself, getting to her walker. Scared her to death!
She had to have surgery on her shooting hand.
He home gun was a Ruger Standard in .22 while we figured out what to do, and she recovers.

She shot a variety of revolvers, weak handed. She shoots a Colt Detective Special best, and that is what she sold her 26 for and Bought herself.
Shooting hand is healed up, and her carry load is standard pressure 158 LSWC-HP.

Either hand, and she will hit tennis balls all day long.

c. Crohns's Disease and the treatments just eat up calcium from bone.
Sorta weakens one like arthritis if you will.
Three folks I know have this.

One used to shoot a .40 cal Glock, he now also does a Colt DS with standard 158 gr LSWC
Second one used to use a 1911, he also went to Colt DS with standard 158 gr LSWC
Third was using a SIG 220 and the DA/SA was giving him fits!
He went to a 3" RB HB K frame, a Model 64, and uses the standard pressure 158 gr LSWC.

I get chided around here for suggesting folks use a .22, a 32, dedicated .38sls, and various guns for CCW and home.
Just my perspectives are shaped from folks that cannot, either temporarily or permanently.

I hope some folks never get hurt, as they will find out in a hurry how what touted does not always work in real life.
They will also wish they had a real simple .22 semi, or revolver they could use as they heal up, and adhere to Doctor's orders from surgeries to repair detached retinas, back and neck surgeries, Chemo for cancer, and the like.

Note: 158 gr is what most .38spls are set up to shoot POA/POI [point of aim/point of impact]


Go shoot a variety of guns, various platforms, calibers, and ammunition types.
To heck what anyone says, or quotes, choose what YOU do best with, and then shoot to become one with that gun and set up.

Good Luck,

Steve

alex_trebek
August 24, 2007, 05:57 PM
I want to thank everyone for the support being offered here. I honestly never expected it to be quite this much. I also didnt expect to hear from so many that have a similar condition. This injury/disfigurement happened a while ago, before I started shooting. Maybe some background could clear it up a little.

I come from a family that isnt anti gun, just never ever owned one. My experience with firearms was limited to shooting shotguns while hunting with my uncle and grandpa. I was 19 when I had this injury, and had never fired a handgun in my life. I started getting into guns after I went shooting with a college funded gun club. It was here that I quickly learned what was comfortable and what wasnt. I fired one of the 1911's that was at this shooting, and absolutely loved it. I stuck to it the whole time because it was the only one that didnt hurt. I had to stop shooting it when it started jamming (from being too dirty), at this point it was removed from the range for the day. The rest of this outing was spent on shooting rifles (also the a first for me).

Sorry to be long winded, but this is where i initially learned that 1911's were OK for me to shoot. This is why I bought the one i currently own. So pretty much all of my firearm experience has happened since the injury, and I have a decent idea of what i can handle. As for the 9mm and small caliber issue, I want something a bit bigger. The glock 23 that i have shot before belongs to a friend, and it is only slightly uncomfortable. There is no pain per se, especially compared to the thousand things I do everyday to cause this darn finger to hurt. I just simply want a forty caliber that is comfortable to shoot, especially if I am going to carry it. I dont think discomfort should be something I am worrying about in the event I need the handgun to protect myself.

I really think that based on the first post an M&P 40 will work for me. I have held them in the store, just the price wasnt right. I am probably being too picky, but I am still in college and on a limited budget. Any price difference will be felt by me.

Anywho, the indy 1500 is this weekend, and I am going to see if there are any for a good price. Wish me luck! And if the M&P 40 is still out of my comfort range, I will probably be looking for a trade to a 9mm sometime in the distant future.

Thanks again for all of your support!

Grizzley Adams
August 24, 2007, 06:03 PM
try something in the 380 acp caliber.it is a necked down version of the 9mm but it has very controlable recoil and i doubt it will cause you discomfort.also the Bersa model like i have goes for about 200 bucks maybe a little more,and it comes with a lifetime warrenty.

tydephan
August 24, 2007, 06:15 PM
Alex,

If you decide to go the M&P route, know that you can always get one from Bud's gun shop for $439 shipped (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/38995). Keep that in mind while shopping at the 1500.

This is one of the best prices I've seen around. I was able to get one of my M&Ps (I own three) for $399 on sale at my local shop.

Good luck to ya.

alex_trebek
August 24, 2007, 06:21 PM
Alex,

If you decide to go the M&P route, know that you can always get one from Bud's gun shop for $439 shipped. Keep that in mind while shopping at the 1500.

This is one of the best prices I've seen around. I was able to get one of my M&Ps (I own three) for $399 on sale at my local shop.

Good luck to ya.

Yeah after FFL fee it will be 459ish, Hopefully I will find one cheaper, if not I will go that route. Thanks for the heads up. Indy 1500 is always worth going to even if you dont walk out with anything! I highly recommend for the eye candy alone..... :)

mballai
August 24, 2007, 06:59 PM
I think the M&P is a very comfortable shooter. No reason why not, but my taste is to simply get a better 9mm carry round (Gold Dot or DPX) so you can shoot more with no discomfort. I've been dealing with hand issues for the last few years and it's much easier to stay with 9mm for intensive shooting than trying to lessen the recoil of 40--unless you can do your own handloads.

tydephan
August 24, 2007, 07:07 PM
I think the M&P is a very comfortable shooter. No reason why not, but my taste is to simply get a better 9mm carry round (Gold Dot or DPX) so you can shoot more with no discomfort.

The M&P9 is a sweet shooter. Other than my EMP, it is my favorite gun to shoot. Even with +p 147gr 9mm, it is very comfortable and easy to shoot. Me likey.

I own and carry the M&P9c as well. I'm not as sold on this pistol yet and still alternate it with my Glock 26. It's already made a trip back to the mothership for repair of the magazine release.

Polish_Pounder
August 25, 2007, 04:06 PM
I also hurt my hand a few weeks ago but can still handle my Gov't 1911 by using the Fist-Fire grip technique (a system worth looking into, btw). Anyway, I was just wondering why you are looking for a smaller gun. Is the 1911 too heavy? Because its weight definitely helps with the recoil, and with my Wilson slim grips the whole gun is less than an inch wide. If you haven't tried concealing a 1911 before, I highly recommend it. Most people are really surprised at how easy it is, and it is a great fighting handgun. Sorry to hear about the hand.

Good shooting,

-Polish

.357 magnum
August 25, 2007, 05:50 PM
Alex I too have the MP .40 and It is one of the most ergonomic grips you will ever come across. Recoil is not bad with this .40- because it tends to come straight back. I would have you consider the MP .45 - especially since they are coming out with 14rd mags very soon.The .45 is less recoil then the .40 and for most people more comfortable to shoot. I have too other suggestions that might help. The Taurus 24/7 9mm is an excellent gun. Very ergonomic, very dependable and you can get one for 350-400. If you have a little more money, I would go with the MP 9mm. Strictly because the grip is a little better then the 24/7, you can interchange the back straps, so it makes it easier to fit your particular hand size. I also tend to like the three dot sights a little better. I hope you find what you are looking for.

The Best to You and Yours!

Frank

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