[Rock_Steady]

Hi guys, I'm just looking for input. I have a 1984c and a Ruger GP-100 both in .357 mag and I want to hunt whitetail with both this season. Any of you do this, and if so, what type of bullet are you using? I handload, so I'm not held back by factory only stuff. Any suggestions?

-Rock

[R.W.Dale]

Load up a heavy as possible hardcast FP bullet and drive it as fast as possible, then go kill something.

[W.E.G.]

The downside of hunting big game with pistol calibers or rifles firing lightweight bullets is the likelihood of no exit wound. Even if you make a good shot (hit a vital organ), the blood trail will be scant if you fail to obtain an exit wound. Its surprising how far a deer can sometimes travel after suffering a severe mortal wound.

I think I would use a heavy bullet - 158 grain minumum. Make good shots, and hope for an exit wound.

[mustanger98]

Me and my Daddy... we came up with a 180gr handload; Hornady's HP/XTP over H110. In the 1894 Marlin with 5D Williams, it's sighted in to bust a clay bird at 100yds with a 6o'clock hold. It's got a pretty good punch.

I agree with the 158gr minimum.

Even if you make a good shot (hit a vital organ), the blood trail will be scant if you fail to obtain an exit wound.

I can recall lung-shooting deer with a .30 caliber 150grainer and getting the exit wound and not having a blood trail. Last fall, I tracked my deer by heading in the general direction he went and where I heard him crash. There's tracks on the ground you can see and there's tracks not on the ground that you can't see. This one buck was down 75yds away in less than 15seconds or so.

Its surprising how far a deer can sometimes travel after suffering a severe mortal wound.

My above comments said, I agree. And they go further when they're pushed. I like the whole principle of the upper-lungs/spinal shot... down and DRT in theory. A good hit that way with a heavy-loaded .357 like we're talking about should do it. But, I go back to a conversation I had with my gun dealer who's also a hunter... he said he sells a lot of those Rossi kid's rifles (.223) and they kill deer with them, but if you have a big old buck come out and he's got does on the brain, he can be real hard to kill with a .300WinMag. But then, we're right back to shot placement being the key.

[mustanger98]

Load up a heavy as possible hardcast FP bullet and drive it as fast as possible, then go kill something.

Check your state's hunting regulations before you hunt with hardcast. I know Georgia and Alabama don't allow it. I don't know about your states.

Help mods - Merge threads?

I second that.

[Clipper]

I used Winchester 145gr silvertip HPs for 30 years...

[Pumpkinheaver]

180gr Hornady XTP over H-110 will give you a fine deer load for both your rifle and pistol.

[Buzz]

Pumpkinheaver, I have used the same bullet with it's sister powder (WW296) out of a GP100 on feral hogs. It certainly performs far better than it's "paper" ballistics would indicate.

[mustanger98]

I mentioned that load in the duplicate thread. I haven't used it in a hunting situation yet; I usually use .30-30Winchester. However, back in January, Daddy and I took the Marlin 1894 to the range and tried this .357 load for accuracy. With the Williams 5D set right, we were bustin' clay birds on the 100yd line consistently. From what I saw that day and what I'm reading in this thread, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a deer out to 100-125yds with it just as things sit now.

[eliphalet]

Another thread that seems to happen with far to much regularity with no resolve.

[BobMcG]

It rather depends on the range and placement.

From a tree stand, my 6" S&W 28 took out a black bear at about 30ft with a factory Rem 158gr SP and a head shot. Didn't go anyplace but down.

Another time my 4" Dan Wesson and I took a 350lb hog at 50ft with a factory Rem 158gr HSP and a shot behind the ear. Dropped like a ton of bricks.

This was around 25 years ago and soon after I started loading my own magnum rounds (instead of just .38spl practice rounds) and haven't bought any more factory ammo, but it has worked for me.

[Rock_Steady]

Right, well from the GP-100, I plan on only hunting at bow ranges, basically. I feel confident with it and its open sights out to about 50 yards. The 1894c I don't feel confident at all with because a gunsmith screwed up my sights, so I'm putting a scout scope on it.

Both guns I will be "keeping it close", no doubt.

[mustanger98]

RS, What did a gunsmith do to your sights? If he was a gunsmith worth going to, he wouldn't have screwed them up. And a real gunsmith could probably correct the problem.

[pheasant slayer]

Shot placement is the key, however, I personally feel it is not enough for deer. I use my 1894 in .44 mag but limit myself to 100 yards or less. That's even pushing it in my mind.

[mustanger98]

Well, even Elmer Keith, who made extra-long shots on game animals, advocated getting as close as possible. And he made long shots on mule deer with .41mag, .44spl, and .44mag handguns. He also said a lot of the times he did, he was wishing he had a rifle.

So, sure, if you can shoot 'em from 50yds or less, go for it. But it helps if you give yourself some leeway (skill and rifle/ammo) to take longer shots. Dick Metcalf and a couple of other guys filmed a show... basically it was a commercial for that newfangled .308 Marlin Express... where Metcalf talked about sighting his rifle in to "shoot the pipe" so that his rifle/ammo's trajectory was always inside the approximately 10" diameter kill zone out as far as that'll work... 310yds or so for that cartridge. That's how I'm thinking too.

IMO, if we're considering that 180gr XTP in the .357mag, weightwise it's somewhere between a .44mag (200-240grs) and a .30-30 (150 and 170grs). Velocity isn't always where it's at so much as weight, ballistic coefficient, and sectional density. I'll have to check the 5th Edition Hornady manual, but IIRC, that 180grainer's loaded to run 1400-1600fps and that's humming for something that heavy in a .357 class cartridge. If a proper shot is made, it's gonna do a lot of damage. In my rifle, it's accurate enough for this job and then some. YMMV.

[birdbustr]

Hornady also makes the FP/XTP. Flat pointed with a smaller hollow cavity in the front than the HP/XTP. I've loaded both for my .357 handgun and they are both very consistent. The FP/XTP may give you a little more penetration and a slight delay in mushrooming.

[campbell]

Heavy bullet yes, but not a hollow point. For hunting with a handgun cartridge a hardcast with a big meplat is the way to go. Something along of the lines of Doubletap's 180 grain offering (http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_27&products_id=151). For a handload, Beartooth (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm)has a 185 grain that's supposed to feed well in leverguns, and Cast Performance (http://www.castperformance.com/Detail.bok?no=5)makes a great bullet as well.

[Nematocyst]

Just putting in a subscription here to read and learn
since I now own an 1894C as a walkabout rifle that
may be pressed into deer service ...

[IDriveB5]

I will be using my 686 this season... 170gn Keith over a generous helping of 2400.

[Nematocyst]

ID-B5,

What length is your 686?

[kmrcstintn]

works for my family; dad had 4" S&W 19 as a backup; switched to a 6" S&W 686 w/ red dot scope for primary/light carry; I have had several 4" and 6" revolvers for back-up...this year sees the addition of a Marlin 1894 that might or might not get scoped...depends upon dad's wants...he needs something w/ less recoil and that is what I have around for a camp rifle; the 1894 feeds and groups the 158 grainers really well...thinking about Buffalo Bore's heavy load that uses Speer Gold Dot 158's on top of a custom blend that chronos over 2,000 fps from the 18.5" barrel on the Marlin carbines!!!

[mustanger98]

kmrcstintn, I don't know your dad, but from the 20" barrel- mine's a bit older- this 180grainer handloaded over H110 don't seem to recoil that bad. I've got a bunch of artheritis and fused back/neck and I don't notice it, but that's me.

I really can't comment too much about scopes and red dots here. My rifle's wearing a Williams 5D. I don't get along with scopes well at all and I've never worked with a red dot. I do know a guy locally who seems to swear by red dots on handguns though. I'll have to check the regs, but I'm not even sure red dots are legal to hunt with in my area.

Oh, and for backup, make mine any of the K and N frame S&W's in .357mag or .44spl/mag. As long as it's in good shape and with my choice of grips and a nice trigger and good sights I can see.

[DogBonz]

357 is plenty for deer at the appropriate range. My brother has taken two nice buck with his 6" 357. Both shots were between 30-40 yards and each deer dropped within 25-30 yards. Shot placement and practice are key, as is knowing your limits.

With the rifle, the 357 can generate some serious velocity, and if you do your part, the rifle will be more that enough for deer.

[Rock_Steady]

I had my front site (marlin factory) replaced with a williams firesight - the red fiber optic one. Well, it looks like when he tapped the dovetail out, he munged up the screws on the base - so he re-drilled and tapped them, put the firesight on - all at about a 4 degree angle from plumb. Looks terrible, won't zero. I won't be using him again. Problem is, there aren't any gunsmiths around that I can get to touch it - very difficult, they say, to unscrew someone else's screwup.

I was just gonna get a nice handgun scope, slap it on as a scout mount, and call it a day.

[mustanger98]

I almost posted an opinion, but then I re-read your post. It sounds like a big mess. Now I'm assuming you're talking about the screws that hold the ramp base on the barrel. I've been hearing there's not that many gunsmiths, but there's plenty of guys claiming to be gunsmiths who'll take your money.

[Rock_Steady]

That's about the size of it - yeah, its the ramp that holds the sight base down. This guy even works at a Gander Mountain, and they say that they aren't responsible, that I signed a wiaver when dropping the rifle off that something might go wrong. Last time I use them for ANYTHING.

[mustanger98]

If you were in my area, I'd recommend a smith to fix your sights. This guy I go to... he takes extra time and care with everything he's done for me. Anybody can slap a set of sights on, but he told me he'd rather take an hour and do it right than take 20mins and do it all wrong. And to me, he's the kind of guy who figures if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[gbran]

I hunt all manner of game with a Ruger 454 SRH and have had nuthing but good luck with H110 & XTP's. I gotta believe this will work for the 357's too.

[Brian Williams]

180gr in either a hardcast or Hornady XTPs. The XTPs can be either JHP or JSP.

I like to use Lil'Gun with mine.

[IDriveB5]

Nematocyst-

Its a 6" tube. With 14.9 grains, itll push them out to about 1380fps. Shoots pretty flat out to 50yds.

[kmrcstintn]

mustang...

thanks for the input...neither of us is setup for reloading; I used to like Federal Castcore 180's til they lightened the powder charge, slowed down the round, and nullified its 625 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle...it got puny; the 1894 is accurate as all get go with 158's which I can get anywhere and he has a few boxes stashed of Remington CoreLokt 165gr jhp's;

I am impressed with the loads that Buffalo Bore make and I have my favorite shop lookin' for some of their 158's, but when he checked 2 weeks ago, they were backordering them...seems demand outran production; he's suppossed to check this week again

[B.D. Turner]

The biggest issue of caliber selection for whitetail hunting has everything to do with where you hunt. I have taken deer with many calibers and all of my shots were within 100 yards or less. A big caliber rifle cannot make up for a poor placed shot. I see no problem using a .357 Marlin out to 125 yards. Someone above quoted a bullet at 2000fps. Check the speed of a factory 30/30 and get back with us.

[kmrcstintn]

this is cut & paste from Buffalo Bore's website...their Heavy Magnum load in 158gr is very close to Remington's Managed Recoil .30-30 load...just slighty shy of their regular 150 gr .30-30 load; primary problem is ordering 'custom' ammo like Buffalo Bore vs getting regular store sold .30-30...prices are higher...on the other hand, I already own the .357 magnum lever rifle and do not own a .30-30...guess it evens out in the end



Heavy .357 Magnum Printed Order Form




Heavy .357 Magnum

Item No. 19A20 180 gr. LFN-GC (1400 fps ME 783 ft. lbs.) Per Box of 20
$21.99
Order Now
Item No. 19B20 170 gr. JHC (1400 fps ME 740 ft. lbs.) Per Box of 20
$21.99
Order Now
Item No. 19C20 158 gr. JHC (1475 fps ME 763 ft. lbs.) Per Box of 20
$21.99
Order Now
Item No. 19D20 125 gr. JHC (1700 fps ME 802 ft lbs.) Per Box of 20
$21.99
Order Now

About Buffalo Bore 357 Mag. ammo

Our 357 mag. ammo adds more power than ever before to the 357 mag. This ammo is safe to shoot in ANY all steel 357 revolver—this includes J frames. This ammo is no harder on your gun than any other normal 357 ammo. Please don’t phone us and ask if this ammo is safe in your gun. It is, providing your gun is in safe condition for use with any normal 357 ammo.

We don’t recommend this ammo to be fired in super light alloy revolvers as bullets may jump crimp under recoil, but the ammo itself wont hurt these super light weight revolvers. These revolvers are simply so light that the recoil is severe enough to cause crimp jump.

The below velocities are offered so that you can see what guns/barrel lengths give what velocities with this new 357 mag. ammo. You’ll notice that new S&W revolvers with short barrels are often shooting faster than older S&W revolvers with longer barrels. The new S&W revolvers are very good and are made with equipment that makes them more consistent and faster than the S&W revolvers of yesteryear.

Make special note of the Marlin 1894, 18.5 inch barrel velocities. Item 19C/20, supercedes 30-30 energies!!!

1. 3 inch S&W J frame

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1302 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC (jacketed hollow cavity) = 1299 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Speer Uni Core = 1398 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Speer Uni Core = 1476 fps

2. 4 inch S&W L frame Mt. Gun

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1375 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr JHC = 1411 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Speer Uni Core = 1485 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Speer Uni Core = 1603 fps

3. 5 inch S&W model 27

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast =1398 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1380 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Speer Uni Core = 1457 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Speer Uni Core = 1543 fps

4. 6 inch Ruger GP 100

a. Item 19D/20-125gr. Speer Uni Core = 1707 fps

5. 18.5 inch Marlin 1894

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast = 1851 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1860 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Speer Uni Core = 2153 fps---- Can you believe this?!!!
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Speer Uni Core = 2298 fps---- Or this?!!!