Beach gun


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Novus Collectus
August 25, 2007, 06:49 PM
I know this may sound silly and I can see why, but the more I think of this the more I see good cause to ask this question. What would be the best, least corrodable handgun that is light enough to swim with in saltwater on a fun day at the beach.
The silly aspects are the obvious "Why????". Here is why this might come up:

The unlikely scenario of a shark attack, but this is only for places like parts of Florida and Hawaii bacause every where else it may be so rare as to not even think of it.
Going to the beach by yourself and you cannot leave your gun with the beach towel, or you have heard of attacks on beach goers coming back to their cars at that beach and you want to remain protected. So the gun must stay with you always, even while swimming.
You swim at a beach, private or public, where there are dangerous or possibly rabid animal or wild dog attacks and you do not want to be unprotected walking back to your beach towel, or you obviously do not want to leave an unatended gun on the beach.



So which gun can either be cheap enough that worry about an occasional saltwater soaking is no big deal?
Which is corrosive resistant enough so as long as it is cleaned shortly after it is not an issue?
Is it possible to have it in a sealed bag, but still able to fire while in the bag if needed?
Is there a gun even light enough to even swim with? Concealable for public beaches? (I guess in some places like maybe Virginia where open carry is legal, it might not have to be concealed.)

Now this is something I used to think of as foolish, but now that I think of it, there might be a time in my hopefully long life where this may become an issue, even if it is only once in a lifetime event. Imagine coming out of the surf to see a family member on the beach about to be attacked by a pack of starving, possibly rabid wild dogs and realising your handgun is a hundred yards away in your car instead of on your hip or ankle.

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Jimmy Newman
August 25, 2007, 07:11 PM
I have heard that some divers in California carry Glocks while diving as a form of shark protection, but it is my understanding that it essentially becomes a contact weapon because the bullet loses most of its velocity in a couple of feet. From me, this is just anecdotal evidence, someone may come by who actually has something meaningful to add to the conversation :).

I have carried a P99 while fishing and doing a little wading and didn't worry about it at all.

KiltedClaymore
August 25, 2007, 07:14 PM
i would say........speargun.

Novus Collectus
August 25, 2007, 07:37 PM
I have heard that some divers in California carry Glocks while diving as a form of shark protection, but it is my understanding that it essentially becomes a contact weapon because the bullet loses most of its velocity in a couple of feet. From me, this is just anecdotal evidence, someone may come by who actually has something meaningful to add to the conversation .

I have carried a P99 while fishing and doing a little wading and didn't worry about it at all. I don't swim in shark waters and I have no idea where most attacks occur, but I was thinking more along the lines of shooting from above the water down into it in something like wading waters or something if there was a shark attack.

deadin
August 25, 2007, 07:48 PM
Biller Bang Stick

Carl N. Brown
August 25, 2007, 07:50 PM
Bullet penetration in water is very iffy. At high velocity,
it is like the bullet hit a brick wall. As the Mythbusters
demonstrated, the big .50 BMG bullet shatters within two
feet of water. On the other hand, big slow bullets like
the 12 ga rifled slug or the .58 civil war musket have
decent penetration, as does the 9mm full metal jacket
bullet, WHEN fired at 90 degrees perpendicular.

Bullets fired at shallow angles will ricochet off the surface
of the water and may strike an unintended target. For
that reason, shooting at targets in water is discouraged,
for reasons of collateral damage.

In WWII it was recommended to use the .45 ACP pistol
in the water, as in under the water, against sharks. The
most effective use against sharks is contact distance,
where the pistol acts as a bangstick.

On the Clinch River in VA (Virginia) folks hunt big river
fish with high power rifles. Guns like the Krag in .30-40
firing a 220 grain FMJ or even the .458 Win Mag firing
a 500 grain FMJ have been used.

MDW GUNS
August 25, 2007, 07:55 PM
I would leave the gun on the beach with the wife and I would bring my regular carry gun. It's a P2000 in .357 SIG.
The chance to "run" (or better said swim) into a shark is very unlikely!
Don't get me wrong, I take my gun anywhere I go!

Jimmy Newman
August 25, 2007, 10:49 PM
I wouldn't really worry about it while wading at the beach (I see little blacktip sharks swimming/surf fishing at the beach pretty regularly and we just leave each other alone :)), I think the people who carry while diving are mainly spearfishermen who, by the nature of what they're doing, are all carrying around shark bait.

Most big sharks don't like to hang out in shallow water at beaches, although there are some exceptions like bull sharks, which are pretty dangerous. It is my understanding that most shark attacks happen well away from the beach in deeper water (i.e. while surfing or swimming way out). This may not be correct, it's just my impression.

The Lone Haranguer
August 26, 2007, 12:43 AM
I would pretty much discount or reject the feasibility of using a handgun for protection against shark attacks. IMO you would have to be under water and literally touching it with the muzzle to do anything. If you shoot at it from above water, the bullet will either skip off and hit something else, or not penetrate the water deep enough to hit it in the first place, let alone with enough force to scare it off, injure or kill it.

The possibility of encountering two-legged predators, however, is a valid concern. How about something like a mini-Glock? The plastic frame, Tenifer-treated barrel and slide and plated/coated internal parts would keep it from rusting to junk or malfunctioning while you're swimming and returning to your car afterwards. Do be sure, when you get home, to dry it out and clean it thoroughly.

Lone Star
August 26, 2007, 12:46 AM
Many shark attacks have occurred in less than three feet of water.

The reason why the Australians and the South Africans mesh their more popular beaches is that big sharks DO come in close to shore, sometimes in deeper troughs under the water. Channels in the sand...

I've seen helicopter photos of big sharks right off popular Florida beaches.

A friend in Barcelona just posted on another forum about several white sharks off the beach where her family USED to swim! Local TV Channel 3 there got some good photos.

She seemed surprised when I asked why there WOULDN'T be sharks off of Catalonia, or off of all eastern and southern Spain. The water is basically part of the Med. Sea. But she felt that because she had swum there, it was safe. Convuluted logic, I guess.

Lone Star

Neophyte1
August 26, 2007, 10:29 AM
Novas Collectus: Sir; not sure how much help I could be.
But do not hide it in a Speedo:eek:


Craig

gudel
August 26, 2007, 12:53 PM
But do not hide it in a Speedo

sure you can, just make sure it's in the front, not in the back! :D

Cannonball888
August 26, 2007, 03:34 PM
http://i16.ebayimg.com/05/i/06/39/5e/aa_1_b.JPG

Kevin108
August 26, 2007, 04:37 PM
The odds of being attacked by a shark in the United States are roughly 1 in 8 million.

The tther rules still apply. Just because you swim with a gun doesn't make you invincible. You shouldn't swim anywhere with a gun you wouldn't swim without a gun.

If you feel you must, a Glock with maritime spring cups is the way to go. But if you do things wrong, the gun underwater might cause you more injury than the shark.

eldon519
August 26, 2007, 05:22 PM
I've never really felt like those odds were quite right. When they figure those calculations, they simply divide the number of shark attacks in a year by the total population. Of course some guy in the middle of Wisconsin who has never seen the ocean is not going to be attacked by a shark.

I've never seen the odds based on the number of people who actually go to the beach. I'd suspect they'd be quite a bit higher, but still unlikely.

Cosmoline
August 26, 2007, 05:36 PM
I would pretty much discount or reject the feasibility of using a handgun for protection against shark attacks.

Elmer Keith himself used to bullseye sharks while fishing. The .44 mag will penetrate water quite well. The large, low velocity round does not break up on impact. And sharks are highly vulnerable to such injury. They have almost no hard tissues once the skin is penetrated. They're like a swimming mass of ballistic gel.

That said, your bigger concern on the beach would be to keep your handgun out of easy theft range while you're swimming around. Personally, I'd use an older Glock. They're not too expensive, they hold up well in corrosive environments and it's not going to bring tears to anyone's eyes if it does pick up some rust.

zinj
August 26, 2007, 06:34 PM
I'd say a gun is too little too late against sharks. There is almost never warning before an attack and almost all such encounters are hit and run affairs (either you got too close to the shark and startled it, causing a defensive nip; or the shark misidentifies part of your body as food and takes an bite and lets go when it realizes you are not the prey it thought it was after).

Despite their reputation as mindless killing machines sharks are actually fairly intelligent animals, and don't seek out humans to eat. The vast, vast majority of sharkbites are one-off affairs that can be treated with simple stitches.

Again, the victim rarely even realizes there was a shark in the area before they were attacked. Far better to take preventive measures and stay out of dangerous situations than to try to bring an ineffective defensive weapon.

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