[darwin-t]

I use Winchester primers. I noticed that my primer troughs get a yellow residue buildup which is apparantly from the smooth side of the primers. Does anyone know what it is?


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/darwin-t/troughs.jpg

It's really bright yellow and is more apparant than it look in the photo.

[DMZ]

Brass?

[benedict1]

darwin, it is probably lead styphanate; it leaks from the primers when they are jostled. Here is some information about it.

If you have ever accidentally crushed a primer during relaoding the yellow stuff spills out all over the place.

Lead Styphnate (2,4,6-Trinitrobenzene-1,3-diol, lead salt)

Lead Styphnate is currently one of the most widely used initiating compounds (this is expected to change in the near future due to the toxity of lead); it is used in most cartridge primers and blasting caps to sensitize Lead Azide, which would not otherwise be reliably initiated from the impact with the gun hammer, or would have a significant fraction of it lost before DDT occurred. There are two forms of lead styphnate: six-sided monohydrate crystals and small rectangular crystals. Lead styphnate varies in color from yellow to brown and is particularly sensitive to fire and the discharge of static electricity, being the most sensitive explosive in this category; when dry, it can be reliably detonated by static discharges from the human body, requiring only 0,004J for that to occur. The longer and narrower the crystals, the more susceptible lead styphnate is to static electricity. Lead styphnate does not react with metals and is less sensitive to shock and friction than mercury fulminate or lead azide. Lead styphnate is only slightly soluble in water and methyl alcohol and may be neutralized by a sodium carbonate solution. It is stable in storage, even at elevated temperatures.
Lead styphnate is a VERY SENSITIVE explosive and its synthesis should be performed only by professionals working under laboratory conditions.

Edited: This comes from a website on Chemistry; synthesis of explosives. I don't think the guy is a "lefty." I think he's nuts for posting how to make this and other explosives.

http://www.powerlabs.org/chemlabs/index.html

[The Bushmaster]

"bullet primers" ??? I didn't know that bullets had primers...Benedict1. Good information, but the guy needs to do more research or have a better understanding of ammunition. Bet this was quoted from a lefty article...

Darwin-t...How long do you store your primers in the primer dispensers?? I don't show that in my Lee Auto Prime II, but I do return all unused primers to their original container after I'm through priming bul..aah..cases...

[Walkalong]

1000's of primers have been through my RCBS hand primer and it is still as green as ever. Of course, white would show the yellow easier I guess.

That looks like residue from primer pockets to me.

[Ol` Joe]

I often see the same yellow dust in Remingting primer box trays. It is as benedict1 says, dust from the primeing compound. I would wipe it out with a damp rag from time to time just to keep it from building up.

[snuffy]

BS The old myth that primer "dust" is present around modern primers has reared it's ugly head again. I may be wrong, but I don't buy into that myth.

Modern primers are sealed by the application of a lacquer that covers the top of the primer pellet. This seals the primer from most things that could soak into the primer pellet to de-activate it. The primer pellet is punched out of a sheet of wet compound, placed in the bottom of the cup, then the anvil is placed on top of it. Knowing that, how could primer dust then get out from under that sealant?

I tried for over a ½ hour to search Google for a drawing of a primer, or an explanation of how they are made. No luck! I guess I didn't use the magic phrase!

Lets not be in a big hurry to subscribe to what sounds like a reasonable explanation of dust around primers. If primer pellet dust could get out from under the sealant, I would be suspicious of that batch of primers. I would be asking questions of the people that made those primers, what is this dust coming from?¿

[darwin-t]

I wrote to Winchester and Lee Precision for their guidance. I'll post their replies.

I tend to leave the primers in the press between sessions. I tend to leave powder in the powder measure,too, unless it's going to be a while before I load again.

I couldn't touch the yellow if I tried. The trough is too narrow.

I can't find my bore cleaner. I tried to clean it out with Q tips and rubbing alchohol. It helped a little. It's more of a discoloration that a buildup.

[benedict1]

BS The old myth that primer "dust" is present around modern primers has reared it's ugly head again. I may be wrong, but I don't buy into that myth.

Well, if it's BS where does it come from? And how come it tests for lead concentration with a D-Lead test kit?

I have seen this for over a year, since I started loading with a Load Master. I also see it when I crush a primer. You figure it out. It sure isn't moon dust!

[snuffy]

Umm, yeah here's the rest of the sight you got the above from.
http://www.powerlabs.org/chemlabs/lead_styphnate.htm

The reason I doubt it is because in all the 40 years of reloading many thousands of rounds, I've never seen any primer dust. I can't imagine how rough you'd have to handle primers to cause them to break up enough to create dust from the primer pellet.

[benedict1]

You can doubt all you want==open up a Win Large Pistol primer and the yellow dust you see is identical to the stuff we see. BTW, did you note above the post re: Remington Primers also yielding this stuff?

This has happened in 4 different geographical locations in the US with Win, CCI and Remington primers. Can't imagine they all came from the same source and were defective.

What do you think the dust is? And why does it test positive for lead?

The data are pretty compelling. How it is getting out of the primers is another question. It is coming from vibration in the primer handling assembly, most probably. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Hard to argue with the pictures at the top of the thread and the lead test.

[Walkalong]

I have never seen any "primer dust". Like snuffy has already said. The primers are sealed as well. :scrutiny:

[benedict1]

It is very hard to ignore the visual evidence. How about a response from the technical staff at CCI--?? The question was posed to

To: cciexpert
Subject: Primer dust?

Here is what they said, and I quote:

Name removed : you're seeing "lead styphnate dusting" in the trough. Yep, you
guessed it, dangerous. Thus the cautions on smoking and reloading, add
the fire and flame stuff too.

Large accumulation should be avoided. :eek::what:

Winchester has not responded yet except to ask the thread starter to call them to discuss.

[snuffy]

Well that explains it, since I haven't used cci primers for over 20 years! I guess that's a good reason NOT to buy any now. If their primers are not sealed like the others seem to be, I don't want anything to do with them!

[darwin-t]

Ummm, Snuffy, it isn't just CCI. I have used Winchester exclusively and I get it,too.

I talked to a tech at Winchester yesterday. He had to make a phone call to check with someone else and called me back.

He said it was "primer residue" he seemed to be uncertain whether it was dust or not, at one point he said dust, at another he souded like it wasn't. He said humidity makes it worse and that's why they recommend that you put the primers away when you're done loading and why they don't recommend using automatic priming devices - which I think is ridiculous, BTW.

I wish he had just given my phone number to whoever HE talked to.....:)

In any case, Benedict1 has provided the definitive answer on the subject, and I thank him.

[benedict1]

Humidity my foot. Winchester rep was dancing around the issue. I live in Southern Kalifornia and relative humidity here is usually below 50%; on most days less than that.

I also use only Winchester primers.

Not use automatice priming devices?? How do they load at the factory? 10000 elves with tweezers and Classic Lee Loaders?? With that kind of tech support no wonder Winchester has given up it's powder line and couldn't make a nickel producing guns.

The message to all is clear--be clean and be careful. Reloading can be safe and sane if we are careful and follow the rules.

[snuffy]

Ok, so it appears I'm wrong in your case. It's happened before, me being wrong I mean.

But from my point of view, I don't have ANY yellow residue anywhere on any of my priming devices. UNLESS I happen to get a primers in sideways and crush one, it happened a couple of times with my old lee turret before I identified what was causing the primers to tip.

I use rem, win, and federal primers. No yellow residue on the primer flipper for the dillon, the primer tubes, or the lee auto prime tray. I'm feeling left out, I should be having this happen, it seems.

At least I'll know what to say the next time this comes up, as it does from time to time.

[The Bushmaster]

Went back and did a close inspection of my Lee Auto Prime II and still don't see any yellow dust...

[darwin-t]

The load master shakes the primer assembly every stroke. This helps the primers drop down the chute. That may be the reason.