guns they quit making


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Just Jim
August 26, 2007, 10:19 AM
We all have our favorite guns. However alot of guns get discontinued after a while. One of my favorites is the Colt 22 Diamondback. It fits perfect in my hand and shoots as straight as I do:rolleyes: Well straight anyway:D

What I want to start here is a thread on discontinued guns we like and a disscussion on why they quit making such great guns.

What do you think:scrutiny:

jj

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Ethereal
August 26, 2007, 11:25 AM
I wish they still made the Sig 225/P6. For being a compact it doesn't feel at all like one, and I have large hands. Don't know why they stopped that one...

Deanimator
August 26, 2007, 11:26 AM
Pretty much EVERY Colt revolver being made around 1976.

I had a chance to buy a 6" Python for a reasonable price, a few years ago at a club swap meet. I didn't buy it. One of many stupid decisions on my part...

Just Jim
August 26, 2007, 12:21 PM
I own a 225 and you are right, they are great guns. It it makes me wonder why they stop making such a good model. If it's the price of a gun then I don't understand because the price of guns has gone up a long ways. Look at Colt SAAs. They quit regular manufacturing when the guns sold for $450, now they are a custom order for $1300. Does it really cost that much to make a Colt SAA??
jj

aka108
August 26, 2007, 12:32 PM
I'd like to see the Colt Woodsman series come back. Good reliable 22's that will last for generations with just a little TLC.

Impax
August 26, 2007, 01:21 PM
It would be nice to see Colt making the Mustang and Mustang Pocket Lite again.I paid way too much for mine six months ago.

Avenger
August 26, 2007, 01:42 PM
Colt Pocket Hammerless in either caliber, but especially .380, or even updated to use 9mm. What a great design for CCW! I love mine....

gbran
August 26, 2007, 01:45 PM
S&W 10mm autos. They also discontinued their 610 revolver in 10mm.

alucard0822
August 26, 2007, 01:59 PM
colt DA wheelguns
Marlin camp carbines
Winchester lever rifles
most anything in super 38 auto, and 10mm
by nothing short of a miracle, I can scratch blued S&W's off the list

Quiet
August 26, 2007, 02:05 PM
Colt Mustang
H&K SP-89
Marlin Camp carbine
Mauser C-96

M1 Shooter
August 26, 2007, 02:09 PM
The Ruger "Six" series. Especially the Speed-Six. It's a great carry revolver. About the same size as, but stronger than the S&W K-frame, and lighter weight than the current 3" GP100.

Another discontinued carry revolver that I like is the Colt Detective Special, and it's alloy frame counterparts the Cobra and Agent. Not much bigger than the S&W snubbies, yet it holds six rounds instead of only five like the S&W's.

Peter M. Eick
August 26, 2007, 02:16 PM
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/44amp.jpg

44 automag. To bad, just before its time with the high powered crowd. I know I love mine but would like a shooter to go with it.

1557
August 26, 2007, 02:18 PM
The Winchester Mod.100,308 semi auto rifle.

Hoppy590
August 26, 2007, 02:42 PM
id like to see Browning BDM's come back.

and a modern day TT33

AMBASSADOR
August 26, 2007, 03:29 PM
Winchester M61 22lr & 22mag,M62 Winchester Gallery gun,I had actually shot one at Coney Island back in the 60's.H&R Top break 22lr pistols.:)

ZeSpectre
August 26, 2007, 03:32 PM
+1 on the AutoMag. I also wish they still produced the Ruger Security Six as I'd like to find a 4" Stainless model.

Ala Dan
August 26, 2007, 03:42 PM
Colt D-frame .38 Specials, Woodsman Match Target, Diamondback, Lawman,
Trooper's, Bankers Special, Combat Commander, LW Commander, Jr. 22 & 25.

Winchester model 88 (lever action) in .308.

Smith & Wesson models 34, 35, 39-2, 43, 52, and 53.

ronto
August 26, 2007, 04:47 PM
+1 on the Ruger "Six" series.

P97
August 26, 2007, 04:53 PM
Ruger P97's. Stopped them when P345's came out.

Deanimator
August 26, 2007, 05:24 PM
I'd like to see the Colt Woodsman series come back. Good reliable 22's that will last for generations with just a little TLC.
One of the companies that makes repro SAAs is or will be making repro Woodsmen.

Creature
August 26, 2007, 05:25 PM
The Colt Python...

doc2rn
August 26, 2007, 06:52 PM
Just about every good .22: Colt 22-a, Woodsman, H&R, I know there are more but most of the others I couldn't afford.

markallen
August 26, 2007, 07:34 PM
Do handguns once produced, then stopped, and then manufactured by another company count in this thread? If so...Detonics Combat master .45ACP. AMT Auto-Mag, in .22 magnum. Ruger Security Six .357 SS 4" . I still have my original Detonics, but I sold the AMT, and the Ruger many years ago. The AMT was very finicky about the type of ammo fed it, but it was still fun to shoot. The Security Six I sold so I could buy a .44 mag. That sale I kick myself in the ass for over and over.

Vern Humphrey
August 26, 2007, 07:47 PM
Every Colt made in the 20th Century. A Colt Shooting Master in .45 Colt would be my first pick -- because I already have a Woodsman, SAA, Officer's Model Target, Detective Special, Model 357 and a Service Model Ace kit

bulbboy
August 26, 2007, 07:48 PM
Colt Mustang
Colt Government Pocketlite .380

Great guns!!

MikePGS
August 26, 2007, 07:56 PM
Medusa Model 47. I've never owned one, but i like the idea of a revolver that can fire 9mm, .380, .38 special and .357 mag without swapping out the cylinder.

Timthinker
August 26, 2007, 08:07 PM
Someone already mentioned the Broomhandle Mauser C-96. I would love to fire one of these in any caliber. A P-08 Luger would also top my list.


Timthinker

DevilDog0402
August 26, 2007, 08:19 PM
Colt Delta Elite
Colt Python
Colt Anaconda

Checkman
August 26, 2007, 09:26 PM
Webley MK VI
Colt Python
S&W Model 28 Highway Patrolman

tinygnat219
August 26, 2007, 09:29 PM
Tokarev TT-33, and the Radom Vis 35.

Golddog
August 26, 2007, 09:36 PM
S&W K frame .357's.

H&K P7 PSP.

aka108
August 26, 2007, 09:54 PM
I can see how, from economic standpoints, so many fine older firearms have been discontinued due to a high number of manually operated machining procedures requiring time and skill. With the introduction of computer controlled machining it would seem that many of these older pieces could be resurrected and marketed at reasonable prices.

Just Jim
August 27, 2007, 09:49 AM
I agree. Why is it the new models keep comming out and they dump the good old models??

CK
August 27, 2007, 11:50 AM
Luger.
Mauser 1896 or broomhandle or C96.
Colt woodsman.

W.E.G.
August 27, 2007, 12:10 PM
Remington Nylon 66 in Apache Black.

Jim Watson
August 27, 2007, 12:26 PM
At the SHOT Show, USFA was showing a repro pre-war Woodsman, complete with Maxim Silencer (at extra charge plus transfer tax, of course).
I bet you could find a clean original for less money than what theirs will end up priced for.

It all comes down to money. Guns are discontinued because they do not make money for the manufacturers. They can guess wrong about what will sell, they can stay with outmoded designs and equipment leading to high production costs so their prices are not competitive, they can just generally mismanage their affairs. Can you spell C-O-L-T for an example of a fine old outfit that has done so much wrong in all areas over the last good many years.

SWMAN
August 27, 2007, 12:31 PM
Savage Model 99

Richard.Howe
August 27, 2007, 12:35 PM
How about the Sig P245? Mine was actually more accurate than my P220ST...and like a dummy, I sold it 3 years ago.

Vern Humphrey
August 27, 2007, 04:58 PM
I happen to have a copy of Larry Koiller's Book of Guns copyright 1956, and thought it might be interesting to use that to answer these questions. Here are the rules -- the gun must be no longer made (or so low in production as to make no difference), it must be one I would want, and I will follow Larry's categories. If I pick a gun in one category, I will not re-mention it except in a different caliber for another category:

Close-cover Rifles: Big Game

Koller's pick: Winchester Model 88 in .308 Winchester. $129.90.
My picks:
Model 71 Winchester in .348 Winchester $127.20
Model 99 Savage EG in .300 Savage $108.85
Model 70 Winchester in .30-06 $124.45

Close-cover Rifles: Deer

Koller's pick: Marlin 336 carbine in .35 Rem or .30-30 $72.95
My picks:
Model 94 Winchester in .30-30 $74.85

Medium Game

Koller's pick: Weatherby .257 Mag (Mauser action). $250.00 on up.
My picks:
No addition to my list

Big Game

Koller's pick: Weatherby .300 Mag (Mauser action). $250.00 on up.
My picks:
No addition to my list

Varmits

Koller's pick: Marlin .222 Rem (Sako action). $129.95
My picks:
Model 70 wWnchester in .22 Hornet or .220 Swift $184.65

Dangerous Game

Koller's pick: Model 70 Winchester in .458 $295.00.
My picks:
Model 70 Winchester in .458 $295.00.
Model 70 Winchester in .375 H&H $295.00.

Small Game Shotguns

Koller's pick: Marlin 90 in 20 Gauge. $99.95
My picks:
Model 21 Winchester in 20 Gauge $390.00.
Model 37 Ithaca in in 20 Gauge $97.15.
Model 42 Winchester in .410 $93.45

Upland Shotguns

Koller's pick: Model 37 Ithaca in 16 Gauge. $89.95
My picks:
Model 21 Winchester in 12 Gauge $400.00.
Model 37 Ithaca in in 12 Gauge $89.15.
Remington 870 Wingmaster in 12 Gauge $81.95

Marsh Shotguns

Koller's pick: Magnum Browning over-and-under in 3-inch 12 Gauge. $265
My picks:
Model 12 Winchester in 12 Gauge $153.20.
Browning Auto 5 in 12 Gauge $121.50

Pass Shooting Shotguns

Koller's pick: Browning Superposed Grade I in 3-inch 12 Gauge. $236
My picks:
No additions to list

Small Bore Rifles: Plinking

Koller's pick: Marlin Model 39A Mountie. $65.95
My picks:
Model 75 Winchester $63.45
Model 52 Winchester Sporting $182.20
Model 61 Winchester $57.90
Model 62 Winchester $49.95

Small Bore Rifles: Target

Koller's pick: Model 52 Winchester standard target $135.20
My picks:
Same

Heavy Match Rifles

Koller's pick: Not stated
My picks:
Model 70 Wincheser Bull Gun $198.55

Handguns

Koller's picks:
Ruger Blackhawk .357 Magnum $87.50
Smith and Wesson .22 Kit Gun $65.60

My picks:
Colt Officer's Model Match .22 $79.25
Colt Woodsman Target $69.60
Colt Python in .357 $125.00
Colt SAA in .45 Colt $125.00
Colt .357 in .357 Mag $75.00
Colt Detective Special in .38 Special $64.50

littlegator
August 27, 2007, 05:46 PM
I have a Winchester 94-32 in .32 w.s. that I inherited. As you know, Winchester closed the factory just recently. Sad...

Hoppy590
August 28, 2007, 12:19 AM
so i said i wished they still made TT33's and just on a whim i decided to check Zavasta's website, because i remembered they still make a sporting rifle based on the SKS. and low and behold, look what i find
http://www.zastava-arms.co.yu/images/civilni/pistolji/11401.htm

man i want one!

Added* they also seem to have atleast 2 modern takes on the tt33 in 9mm
im sure china/Norinco is still making them, but since they are a political no go in the US il skip it

modifiedbrowning
August 28, 2007, 01:33 AM
Walther P5 Compact.
I wish I had the money to buy one to add to my Walther collection.

19-3Ben
August 28, 2007, 01:52 AM
Ruger Service/Security/Speed six,
And i know it's not a handgun, but the Marlin camp 9/45's.

kiwibird1
August 28, 2007, 09:50 AM
One more here for the Colt Mustang/Pocket Lite.

MCgunner
August 28, 2007, 10:14 AM
Ruger Security/Speed/Service Sixes AND a gun that got discontinued before it got produced, 10mm Ruger P90.

ranger335v
August 28, 2007, 10:30 AM
Bottom line, manufactors move according to the bottom line of sales. They don't arbitarily decide to remove a product because it's selling too fast and making to much money. They stop because things are reversed - slow sales!WE move the market, the market simply provides what we are buying and drops what we are not buying in sufficent quanities. That's the way a capitalist system works.

Glad I got my Smith Md. 29 during the original production period, they ain't making them that way no more!

MCgunner
August 28, 2007, 10:54 AM
I don't know. I think what killed the Colts is mis-management, failure to upgrade production techniques. They were expensive and, frankly, Smith and Wesson and Ruger had better comparable models for less money. When I bought my old Security Six in 78, they had a Colt Trooper and a M19 there. The decision came down to M19 vs Security Six. The Trooper was a lesser gun for more money. I ultimately went for the Ruger's strength and stainless construction for 10 bucks less than the 19. I later got a 19 used, but still preferred the Ruger. But, the Colt was just too much money for not enough gun IMHO. Cost of production made them priced out of the market. The Python was a fine gun if you had the bucks, but I never had that sort of money to spend on a handgun. The Security Six slicked up just fine and the trigger was about as smooth and light as a Python once done. I've handled Smith N frames with trigger jobs that would make an out of the box Python cry and total cost of the N frame with trigger work was a lot less. I never saw anything special about Colts. That's why they didn't sell, but proper management, more modern tooling, reduced production costs, could have kept them alive IMHO. Sure, lack of sales killed them, but it was mis-management behind the lack of sales.

I don't know that the Security Six line wasn't selling. Ruger just came out with what they thought was a superior gun and killed the Six series. Well, IMHO (and not just because I once owned one) the Security Six and Speed Six had a niche between the heavy as heck GP100 and the snubby 5 shot SP101. I don't know that sales would have fallen off that much if they'd kept it in the line for a few more years, perhaps I guess. I really don't suppose I miss the gun all that much, have an SP101 for carry now and it's easier to tote. But, the Sixes made good field carry guns with 4" barrels, lighter than a GP100 by a long shot and with a 4" barrel and adjustable sights, more comparable to a K frame, but much stronger. I still appreciate the Six series and think, maybe with the new lockwork added and the new grip frame, a Six sized gun would sell. There wasn't a lot of weight difference, no more than a few ounces, in the 2" Speed Six and the SP101 and you got an extra round in the cylinder for it. The SP101 is porky for a snubby.

Now, the P90 was being developed as a 10mm when the FBI adopted the 10 in downloaded form. It's a beefy, strong gun that could handle a 10 with ease. When Smith came out with the .40 during the P90s development and the .40 took over and the 10mm waned in popularity, Ruger decided to make the P90 in .45. I think the 10mm version WOULD sell. Ruger never gave it a chance.

ADKWOODSMAN
August 28, 2007, 11:17 AM
Ditto on the Colt Woodsman--inherited one to go with my huntsman. I also miss the 742 Rem that always worked (in .308) anyway. Win'71, Vaquero Bisley.

boomer1911a1
August 28, 2007, 03:42 PM
Call me a Philistine, but I miss my Springfield P9, one of the first CZ-75 clones. Yes, it was Tanfoglio parts assembled in Geneso, IL, but the bluing was rich and gorgeous, the fit and finish superb, and the accuracy was as good as any pistol I've ever fired.

I also miss "third generation" Smith autos, especially the 1006. I own a 4506 that groups slightly better for me than my 1911-A1. So what if it had too many moving parts and the bore axis was a tad high? It is built like a tank and has a buttery double-action first-shot pull that puts guns costing twice as much to shame.

CWL
August 28, 2007, 03:51 PM
Gyrojet carbine
Gyrojet pistol
Mateba MTR-8 Revolver
HK P7M7

Mark whiz
August 28, 2007, 05:10 PM
"Ditto" to the Win Model 100, Ruger Security Six, and the Medusa pistol.

I'm fortunate enough to own a 1961 1st year issue Model 100 and a 1967 4" Security Six. Funny story about the Medusa, I found out a few years ago that my ex-Sister-in-Law married one of the guys who designed/marketed the Medusa. I got to fire her pistol with 9mm, 38Spcl, and .380 and all shot very well. It was a good seller in Europe due to the lack of ammo there - a gun that could shoot almost anything has a big appeal there. But us "spoiled" Americans would rather spend lots of money on lots of different guns - go figure. :rolleyes:

Scorpiusdeus
August 28, 2007, 05:22 PM
Are they still manufacturing the Sig 228? If not, add to list along with the Bren Ten.

Brian Williams
August 28, 2007, 07:15 PM
S&W model 12 with a 3" mid weight barrel.
S&W 13
S&w 5" pencil barrel mod 10

lots of folks lamenting missing Colts, but there are a few S&W's that would be nice to have.

Sniper X
August 28, 2007, 07:23 PM
The original Colt Dimondback in .38spl
Of course the Python, original one.
Original Winchester 1894 without that ugly safety
AMT AutoMag
Colt 1911 serries 70
Marlin 336RC
Ruger Security Six

Vern Humphrey
August 28, 2007, 08:02 PM
Wouldn't I love to go back to 1956 and hand my Dad a shopping list?:D

woad_yurt
September 2, 2007, 07:16 PM
I have a 100+ year old DA Webley & Sons MKIII in .38 S&W. The trigger pull is perfect and the recoil is mild. My girlfriend is like Annie Oakley with that gun. Not the most powerful but it points so naturally. It's my nightstand gun. They should also bring back the H&R 922 line. I have 3 and they're indestructible, accurate and hold 9 rounds. The one with a 6" barrel is like target gun accurate. Also, I like my CZ 52s. One of them is a chromed one from Classic Arms. It's gorgeous, trouble free and that .30 Tokarev is a great pistol cartridge.

Iggy
September 2, 2007, 07:25 PM
Another vote for the Colt's Hammerless Auto's..

First Shirt
September 2, 2007, 07:51 PM
Savage 99 / Win 88
S & W M-58
Remington 788 (most accurate CF rifle I've ever owned, and it was left-handed!) (Also ranks very high on the list of "Guns I should never have sold!)

JWB

Captain Bligh
September 3, 2007, 11:34 AM
I know its in a handgun forum, but I gotta say it: The finest shotgun ever made, Browning A-5.

kungfuhippie
September 3, 2007, 11:59 AM
Not really a handgun, but the Marlin camp carbine in 9mm or .45 would be on my list.
And a Nagant revolver, preferably in a better caliber.
And anything Star ever made
Especially models A, B, BM, D, F, M, P, PD, 28, 30, 31, 31M, Firestar and Ultrastar

Yes, I like the Star pistols I've shot/handled.

HankB
September 3, 2007, 02:28 PM
S&W ".357" magnum . . . the pre-27 version. Checkered topstrap, superb workmanship, and bluing that looked a mile deep . . .

For that matter, any S&W with pinned barrel, recessed cylinder, no MIM parts, no lock, and the firing pin on the hammer, where it belongs.

Original open-bolt Ingrams . . . crude and shockingly inaccurate semi-autos, some early ones could supposedly be converted to FA with a paper clip. :what:

denfoote
September 3, 2007, 07:14 PM
Now that the test case in PA has been a success, I predict that the BATF will move to shut the NCIS down permanently. After that, there will be no reason to make ANY gun, save those used by the Government!!

P. Plainsman
September 3, 2007, 10:03 PM
Colt Diamondback
Colt Detective Special

S&W 10mm revolvers
S&W 696 (packable 5-shot L-frame .44 Special; no one bought at the time; now $$$ used)
S&W 16, 631, and other steel-frame, adjustable-sighted "kit guns" in .32 H&R Magnum with decent barrel lengths (3"+)
All no-lock S&Ws

Ruger "-Six" series .357s

Marlin Marauder (factory 16" barrel .30-30 levergun ... aw yeah)
Marlin Camp Carbine (maybe updated with a heavier bolt and better mag well / trigger guard materials)

HK factory semi-auto rifle/carbine variants for private citizens (open a plant in America)

IMTHDUKE
September 3, 2007, 10:51 PM
http://www.treasureislandbedandbreakfast.com/images/GUNS/mustang.jpg

Pocketlite

Elkobsessed
September 3, 2007, 10:57 PM
Browning BBR rifles....I bought one with a cracked stock and can't seem to find a replacement anywhere...very hard to find original stocks and parts.

22-rimfire
September 3, 2007, 11:43 PM
I like to see a Colt D-frame 22 and 38spl be re-introduced (the Diamondback). Not going to happen. Heck, I'd like to see most of the Colt revolvers and 22 autos come back. Not going to happen. I get tired of just looking at Smiths and everyone saying.... top of the line. No way; Colts were. Unfortunately, it is past tense now and Smith wears the crown now.

hank327
September 4, 2007, 12:22 AM
Blue steel Smith & Wesson revolvers, pinned and recessed, firing pin on the hammer and no lock!

bill larry
September 4, 2007, 12:45 AM
What?!? No one had said it yet...

The Remington Model 51

sm
September 4, 2007, 01:57 AM
:)

You folks have "done good" on the listings.

Now if we could just get mfgs to pay attention!

chief
September 4, 2007, 03:40 AM
Anyone mention walther ppk/s or pp in .22lr?

Joe Demko
September 4, 2007, 09:17 PM
I'd like to see the H&R 999 brought back and done right. I bought one of the last ones produced in the 90's, and it was a real disappointment. I'd wanted one for many years after shooting an old one belonging to my great-uncle; but the one I purchased was inferior in every way.

ATW525
September 4, 2007, 09:32 PM
How about the Sig P245? Mine was actually more accurate than my P220ST...and like a dummy, I sold it 3 years ago.

+1 I would've loved to see a P245 DAK, but instead we have the P220 Compact which I wouldn't touch with it's own 10ft long beavertail. :barf:

usp9
September 5, 2007, 09:57 AM
+1 Colt Woodsman

I'd like to see the;
Walther TPH
Seecamp .25
H&K P7 .380 and/or .45

CSA 357
September 5, 2007, 08:28 PM
smith & wessons with out a key, mod 12 winchester:(:(

McCall911
September 5, 2007, 08:40 PM
Another vote for the Bren Ten/Peregrine Falcon. :cool:

An EAA Witness is not the same!

sansone
September 5, 2007, 08:45 PM
I miss colt mustang and marlin 9mm carbine

Greg8098
September 5, 2007, 09:39 PM
Smith and Wesson should really bring back their 10mm autoloaders. I would buy one with no regrets.

yhtomit
September 5, 2007, 09:56 PM
Also the Browning BDM, like Hoppy above.

I have one, and am well pleased with it. Nicely slim, largely based on the Hi-Power, sleek. IMO just a bit larger for concealed carry, but smaller than many that other carry concealed every day.

timothy

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