[Greywolf]

OK, having just spent $2200 on a new safe, I was wondering what I should be expecting or shooting for regarding humidity.

It is in a closet, in a house in central Florida. According to my meter, it is a constant 79.5 degrees and 52% humidity. I have a goldenrod in there plus a rechargeable silica pack.

I do store my blued firearms in Gunkote bags, make sure all metal is wiped down and oiled. So far no issues in my previous safe other than one small spot on a pistol that I didn't catch until I noticed the rust, and now I keep it ultra-oiled.

Is this OK, or should I look for more ways to reduce the humidity.

BTW - it is usually about 45%-50% inside the rest of the house with the AC running all the time in the summer.

[GunTech]

Ouch! I would be unhappy with that sort of humidity. Time for dessicant and a rubber seal on the door.

[CB900F]

Greywolf;

Your climate and conditions are so different from what we see here in central Montana that I'm loathe to speculate. Here, you're into overkill. There, I dunno.

I'd contact a larger gunsmith shop or fine firearms dealer in your area & ask for advice. Either will almost certainly be storing customer guns or stock for extended periods of time & cannot afford to be susceptable to rust in their storage area(s).

900F

[Greywolf]

I wonder if having an additional goldenrod in there would help, or maybe an electric fan for air circulation, or just more silica.

[dogrunner]

I'm on the e/coast and a bit north of you but my conditions are VERY similar to yours. I also use a goldenrod and practice at least a once a month oil wipe, I also tend to keep the safe open and a lot of air circulating too unless both the wife and I are going to be out at the same time. The humidity/heat issues are just the way it is here. Someone from another climactic region simply can't appreciate the problem unless they've lived here for a while just like folks here can't imagine just how quickly a rifle'l "sweat" up if you bring it inside when you've been hunting in extremely cold conditions.

Constant attention is the real answer tho, and even then it'l get you sometimes. I have an "antique" nickled M/19 Smith that I carried for years as a LEO.....Fitted with a neat set of Roper grips that I took really good care of, still, being packed in an open holster it developed damage to the nickled areas underneath the grips...Like I said, you gotta' stay on 'em all the time here.

With no offense to the poster that suggested it, I really don't believe that I'd consider a "sealed environmental "condition in that safe. You just might be asking for a real problem with that approach. Had a friend show up at my place just a month or so ago with a S&W .22 target revolver that was nearly unfired.........AND pitted beyond belief on all external surfaces.......it'd been stored in a safe that was rarely opened by its owner and had a goldenrod inside too!

I'd do the dessicant and rod issue were I you.

[gbran]

Get some BBQ briquettes in a pair of womens nylons and hang them in there. Some say this is more efficient than silica desicant. You can also buy plaster-like desicant and I've even heard of people using hay/feed cubes.

I was having some very minor problems even with desicant, but the bbq's solved it.

[Greywolf]

gbran - interesting idea. So, just place about 4-5 briquettes in nylons and hang them? They won't "drip" will they? Just absorb for a while, and then replace, what, every few months?

[Guntalk]

Get a bunch of Rust-Blox.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1207&title=RUST-BLOX+VAPOR+TABS

Excellent product.

[Red6]

If your gun is in a safe you might not be able to use it when you need it.

Why buy beautiful guns and hide them in a safe?

A safe (often in a garage) is not air tight and can actually be a bad place for your guns long term.

I’m sure you’re now going to tell me that you need the two thousand dollar safe “for the children” or to “save the planet” or in case some burglar comes in to steal your guns, BS. Buy yourself a gun cabinet.

http://guncabinets.vigilantinc.com/guncabinets-dyo2.asp

http://www.americanguncabinet.com/cabinets1.htm

For the price of a big, heavy, ugly safe you can buy a beautiful, handcrafted, cherry wood cabinet that will show off your guns. Mount them over a fireplace. I did both, and it’s pretty and functional even with small children since the cabinet is lockable too.

BTW, my cabinet inside is in an air-conditioned place that's cooler and dryer and guess what the wood naturally does with moisture? Do you think I get condensation inside.......

A safe is tasteless.

[jhco50]

Drill a hole and install a small lightbulb, say 7-15 watt. It should keep the moisture out.

[WeedWhacker]

If your gun is in a safe you might not be able to use it when you need it.

That's why I leave one pistol and one semi-auto shotgun outside the safe. When everyone leaves the house, all firearms not being carried go back in the safe.

The safe is meant to slow down the burglar whom enters the house after we leave. A nice cherry cabinet won't do much slowing down.

Do you not believe in the existence of burglars?

[JohnBT]

Greywolf, I'd say you have it covered very well. I wish I could get the humidity in my safe down to 50%, but it's in a dark, damp 1916 basement that gets a little water running across the floor from time to time if we get more than an inch or two of rain in a couple hours. Actually, I have 2 GRs in the safe. The 2 big containers of dessicant saturated in a matter of days, so I tossed them.

The only suggestion I'd make to leave the closet door open as much as possible to provide some circulation. GoldenRods need circulating air to work.

Extra oil, RIG grease and vapor blox tabs can't hurt, but a GR and circulating air in the safe will do just fine. One or more holes in the top of the safe would be ideal, but the crack around the safe door adds up to quite a few square inches

John, here in semi-tropical (according to the British Foreign Service) and tidal Richmond. We're 100 miles from the ocean, but the James River is tidal downtown.
Right now it's 72* with 84% humidity outside. What a beautiful day.

[Gunbabe]

Our local Gander Mountain store sells litte humidifier for safes. They are only $25.00. Maybe if you can't find one nearby you can online.

[Neo-Luddite]

When you are home, if you are otherwise able to, leave the safe standing open. I know it's more to bother with, but it sounds like your home is well controlled in terms of humidity. Hang your keys on the safe so that you'll remember to open / close it.

And the thing I always harp on--watch out for your weapons' stocks (wood/hard rubber/some early plastics) and leather or canvas items; hyper-aggressive dehumidification can really take a toll on those materials.

[Greywolf]

Thanks, guys. Guess I'll have to take some of these suggestions and modify a few things. Luckily my wife works from home and it is rare that we are both away at the same time.

As for the suggestion that I don't need a safe and should get a cabinet instead - I have over $12,000 worth of guns, optics, magazines, and other valuables. Four of those items are NFA items that would earn me the mother of all ATF anal exams if they got stolen. I'd rather have a burglar-rated safe than a nice cabinet that any moron with a hammer could get into.

[M2Pilot]

....

[Bottom Gun]

You might try one of these or something similar:

http://www.gaiam.com/retail/product/01-0410?HCR=OTC-booyahfeeds&atlas=true&gcid=C18376x003&keyword=01-0410

http://www.vermontcountrystore.com/jump.jsp?itemID=7873&itemType=PRODUCT&searchid=inceptor

I use a rectangular version of these in my boat. I also used it in my safe when I was in a high humidity area in Indiana. It worked well.

[atomchaser]

I wouldn't be too worried about it. I store my safe in a non-climate controlled garage in coastal Florida. I have a golden road, a couple cans of dessicant, and have every gun in a gun sock (except my Mossberg Cruiser). It's been in this configuration for about a year -- no signs of rust. Humidity inside the safe hovers around 60% this time of year. I'm very careful to wipe the guns down before putting them up.

[kiwibird1]

I am in Jacksonville, FL and know the humidity all too well. I have a safe in my closet and use some desicant packs from aircraft engine cans. They put them in the can for storage and shipping and the guys just toss them out when they are done. So I asked if I could take some off of their hands and I reactivate them in the oven following the directions on the packets. Now opening my safe lowers the heat index in my house:D

[Red6]

If someone knows you have guns and is breaking it to get them, they'll walk away with you're whole damn safe (most the smaller ones) or break it open in your home with tools you can buy at any Home Depot. But I already knew your response before I even posted my first reply.

1. The statistical probability of a burglary is actually quite low. Point six percent where I’m at, to be precise. Of that point six percent many of the burglaries occur in commercial/businesses where they think they can get money than in a residential neighborhood.

http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Plano&state=TX

2. A safe as you stated correctly will only slow someone down. If they want it, they will either haul off your whole safe or tear it open in your own home, which often is the case.

3. They might not take the guns if they didn’t break in to specifically get them. They might hit certain rooms, the garage (where the safe typically stands) etc.

You can enjoy your big metal clump, try to figure out ways to control condensation, replace batteries from some digital keypad locking mechanism or figure out how to move it if you ever move to a new home. A wood cabinet locks and keeps guns out of children’s hands. It keeps your guns clean, organized, and prevents rusting while displaying them, all things I want. In fact a wooden cabinet besides pretty comes in near any layout you want, tailored to your inventory and adjustable later. But then again, if all you have is Tupperware guns you might not care to have them displayed in your home as part of the decor.

If you want a good prophylactic against crime, buy yourself two big territorial dogs. Your local neighborhood thief Tyrone seems to have an aversion to them. Typically the burglar avoids any confrontation and usually they scout an area out before they pick their target. If you’re leaving your home for an extended time, you put your guns somewhere else that’s safe, not in your home safe, that isn’t really safe, get it?

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/safes/detail.asp?cat_id=160&type_id=42745&value=001F ($4,000+ safe will slow a criminal down maybe three minutes with setup time.)

This is a plasma cutter: http://www.millerwelds.com/products/plasma and someone can have your gold plated, glass drill proof locking system, lots of special locking cams defeated in literal minutes. He’ll cut right through the top (less damage to what he wants that way).

Enjoy you safe-

[RobXD9]

Allergy specialists recommend reducing humidity to 40% or lower in your home to help eliminate mold growth.

I would assume the same holds true for your gun safe. I imagine mildew doesn't do well on firearms.

That'd be the number I'd shoot for.

-Rob

[Greywolf]

May have to go with an additional dehumidifer to put in the closet, given the humidity inside the rest of the house.

Thanks for the mostly useful advice, guys. I'm very happy with my "block of steel" and know that anyone but the most determined, professional safecracker will never be able to steal my guns. Hell, it took the safe dealer 2 hours to drill through one of these safes when they had to get one open once - that in and of itself gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. Plus the fire resistance is very nice to have :)

[WeedWhacker]

Regarding safes, RSCs:

Those of us who own a safe or RSC already know they aren't burglar-proof. They do, however, up the odds in that should a burglar break in, he doesn't have a hand truck strong enough to handle the safe with hundreds (or thousands) of pounds of firearms, ammo, and lead bricks inside, or that he didn't bring tools to bust doorframes out of the wall in order to fit the safe through, or that he left his plasma cutter or burning bar in his other pants.

Contrasted with a nice cherry display cabinet, even the most casual of smash-and-grab burglars will be able to make off with all your firearms in a heartbeat.

-edit
I kin't speel.

[Greywolf]

Trust me, I would LOVE to live in a perfect world where no one ever broke in to people's homes and stole their guns. But it doesn't exist. I'd love to show off my collection. But it only takes ONE time where you aren't home and someone breaks in to your home (maybe you are on vacation and took your dogs with you or someone busted in and took 2 minutes (all it takes) to smash the glass on your wood gun cabinet and take a few guns.) Then what happens? You are out at least the glass, the guns, and worst case scenario the criminal uses your poorly-secured guns to commit a murder. Then your ass is being sued. My guns and especially my NFA weapons deserve better protection than a gun cabinet can provide. I'm not taking a chance with them, and I don't want to be held liable for their misuse.

[Steve 48]

I have both a Golden rod and silica in my safe and all long and short guns are stored in silicone wraps. I also get all of the out at least 4 times a year and wipe them down with a thin layer of Remington oil. Steve48

[WiscTJK]

I bought one of these EVA-Dry things and you plug it in and it turns blue. Then set in your safe. Once it turns pink (every 2 to 3 weeks for me), it is maxed on moisture and you plug it in an outlet overnight to "recharge" it. Pretty slick.

I think they are marketed as a Remington product now (at Gander Mountain), but the Eva is the same thing and they are cheaper.

http://www.allergybegone.com/eva-dry-edv300-mini-dehumidifier.html

I hope this helps.

[revjen45]

I have heard that cat litter makes a good dessicant. It's cheap too.

[waterhouse]

If your gun is in a safe you might not be able to use it when you need it.

The guns I might need to use right now are not in the safe.

I’m sure you’re now going to tell me that you need the two thousand dollar safe “for the children” or to “save the planet” or in case some burglar comes in to steal your guns, BS. Buy yourself a gun cabinet.

I personally know people that have had their guns stolen. The fact that it happens is not BS. I also personally know someone whose house was broken into. Jewelry was taken from a drawer in the closet. The gun safe in the same closet was not compromised. I'd be willing to bet if he had a glass front cabinet the guns would be gone.

For the price of a big, heavy, ugly safe you can buy a beautiful, handcrafted, cherry wood cabinet that will show off your guns. . .

A safe is tasteless.

I don't want to show off my guns to everyone who enters my house, and my soon to be wife probably doesn't want them as part of the decor anyway. In fact, I'm sure she would describe such "decoration" as "tasteless." Both you and she are entitled to your opinions on taste, but I'll stick with my big, heavy safes nonetheless.

It is 100% fine if you prefer to display your guns in a wood and glass case. For me, and obviously many others, it is not the best solution.

[Red6]

http://www.ci.frisco.tx.us/uploadedFiles/Departments/police/UCRstats06.pdf

I don't care if it's Frisco, Plano, Allen......etc etc etc. The probability of someone breaking into a building is LESS than 1% and that's in a big city with commercial and residential bundled together. Get the picture? In a residential area as where many people live the probability of someone breaking in and stealing your stuff is far less than 1%. Often the burglar gets into homes that are unlocked all together or where keys are stored in really conspicuous places under the mat, on the door frame, or behind the flower pot. Simple pro-active measure to deter crime will greatly reduce the statistic even further. Think about this. You bought a device that will maybe be beneficial in a scenario that is far less than 1% likely. You paid $2,200 or more for that event. You must have an impressive collection.

Your safe isn't safe. You're safe will merely stop the burglar who opportunistically sees them in commission of his crime. Anyone coming in to get them will come in with simple to use, readily available, and inexpensive tools that will cut your most expensive cool sounding safe to $hit in minutes. They will use carbide tipped tools or a plasma cutter and peel that safe open faster than it took you to fill out the paper work to have it delivered to your home (for an extra surcharge of course).

On the other hand, how many homes do you think get broken into that have two larger dogs that don’t really like strangers? A safe will not stop a burglar, but the threat of confrontation almost always does!

There are inherent advantages to a wooden cabinet; such as corrosion, ease of moving, and tailoring of storage space and its appearance. But hey, if you want to buy a $4000 safe and figure out how to stop your crap from rusting inside, be my guest. While at it, insure everything in your home and buy the extra insurance on your PC, wife’s diamond ring, full coverage on your used car, did you know you can insure your house from flooding in Plano Texas?…….. JUST IN CASE!

The added net benefit is not there with a safe.

[WiscTJK]

I use a cheap gun security cabinet, but to be fair, I don't have any very valuable guns, and I just wanted to keep the kids and others fingers off, and limit liability to myself.

I don't think there is anything wrong with getting a safe for those reasons, and the value of the safe should correspond somewhat to the value of the collection IMO.

[Colt]

Personally, I'm more concerned with fire than theft.

Putting my guns in a crate of kindling in the middle of my bedroom doesn't strike me as an effective solution.

[Red6]

"I personally know people that have had their guns stolen. The fact that it happens is not BS. I also personally know someone whose house was broken into."

It's a mathematical function. Probability and severity of impact/ability to recover, are the driving variables. This is no different than buying insurance. In this case he bought a $2,200 insurance that may not pay out, and there is a far less than .6% (per year) probability of occurrence in the first place.

A well sealed up house with two territorial dogs (Catahoula’s) roaming a fenced in property has a real and practical impact on burglary for the entire home. Your example with burglary is entertaining, like the evening news.

If I travel or leave for an extended time, I wouldn't leave my guns or valuables in a safe either. The net benefit isn't there with a safe and I think this is the case with many who buy these big, ugly, heavy, and expensive monstrosities for the same reason people buy extended warranties/insurance on everything.

[Nimble1]

Greywolf,
When I had my safe installed in my house, I asked the installer about humidity issues and he said that if the A/C was working properly, I should not have a problem and I have not. That was 3 years ago and I live on a saltwater canal about 2 hours south of you.
With the precautions you have taken, you should be fine.

And I am not sure what Red6's problem is with safes...LOL:confused:

[Greywolf]

Red6 - I honestly don't understand the vehemence of your arguments. What is so difficult to understand regarding my decision?

I live in a prety safe area, HOWEVER as I stated I have over $12,000 worth of firearms, optics, another $3500 in NV optics soon to arrive, and invaluable files, pictures, etc. that cannot be insured.

4 of my items are NFA (that's Class 3 to some of you) weapons that the ATF does NOT want to get stolen, and neither do I.

If I want to spend $200, $2000, or $10,000 to protect my investments, my irreplaceables, and to prevent my firearms from being used to commit crimes, then that is my decision. Sort of like my decision to buy a Suburban instead of a Yugo to drive my family to and from the store or on vacation. Hey, the chances of getting in an accident are "x"%, so why spend all that extra money on a big hunk of steel with airbags when for so much less money I could get a cheap Yugo?

Honestly, all I wanted was some advice on how to handle humidity, not some diatribe about how stupid I am for buying a safe.

And you are wrong - MY safe is a BURGLAR and FIRE rated safe. It has 1/2" steel plate on the front door, and the LAST thing I have to worry about in my neighborhood, on a corner lot, near a busy street, is some professiona safe-cracker and a plasma torch or drill-rig spending an hour inside my house. I think the burglar alarm, dogs, neighbors, video surveillance, and other security products in my house (not to mention professional burglars and safecrackers don't break in to $100,000 houses) will deter them. Smash-and-grab burglars are my concern, and a 900 pound safe (1200 pounds when full of my stuff), lagbolted to the concrete, is going to keep them from my collection.

Let's see your cabinet do that.

[Red6]

I don't have a problem with them!

I don't have any problems with people that buy a Prius; cell phone, credit card identity theft, or rental car add on insurance. All these people have their reasons for buying what they do, and it all makes perfect sense to them.

Many people keep their safe in a garage or have a house where temperatures fluctuate largely throughout the day (Programmed thermostats). When warm moist air seeps into a large metal box that cooled off over night or from the A/C in a home, you get condensation on the inside; this also includes the metal surfaces of your gun. For every 10C that you raise the temperature, you over the thumb, double the oxidation rate. In my garage, in a safe, my guns would be more susceptible to oxidation. Does that make better sense to you now?

[JohnBT]

You put a GoldenRod in the safe and it solves the condensation problem. A very simple, time-proven solution. Your other problems will require different solutions.

And futhermore, a good safe will keep visiting kids from messing with the guns and keep your friends and neighors and other invited guests from getting fingerprints all over them. It's not all about smash-and-grabbers.

John

[Red6]

“MY safe is a BURGLAR and FIRE rated safe”

“It has 1/2" steel plate on the front door”

Wow-

I see. You’re probably right.

[Quickdraw McGraw]

Greywolf, THERE‘S ALWAYS ONE! :banghead: How about having a “beautiful, handcrafted, cherry wood cabinet “ built that will fit inside your “your big metal clump” to keep all your “Tupperware guns” in. That would solve the problem. Besides do you know how much dog food you could buy with $2,200 to feed “two big territorial dogs (Catahoula’s)”. Red6 should probably take his ball and go home. I think I heard his mommy calling.:neener:

Seriously, congrats on your new safe. This is America you can buy whatever you feel will keep your guns safe, just as I did! I was just wondering about this myself as I bought a Champion clump this weekend. I live in south central PA which is also quite humid this time of year. My safe is on the first floor (not in basement) and I checked the humidity inside it the other night and it was 73* and 56% humidity. I would like it to be about 50% - which is what I try to keep my basement (where my reloading gear is). My clump came with a 12” Dri Rod (got the safe used for only $500 came accross a couple who needed cash) that was never installed. I want to install it but there are no instructions in the package on how and where to drill a hole in my clump for the wire. I emailed Champion but have not heard back yet. Keep us posted about the humidity level of your clump and what you find works best. Here's a picture of my clump. I don't have my 'tupperwear' moved over from my finely crafted pine box with glass windows yet but my son put his daisy red rider in.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Metzy84/Safe3.jpg
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Metzy84/Safe4.jpg

[don]

I use calcium chloride in a cooler to protect my cameras from moisture. It is cheap and very efficient. Fill a coffee can about 1/2 full, when it turns to liquid or has much liquid in it dispose in the commode. Calcium chloride is called by many names. I get mine at an auto parts store it is called Driveway Heat. Incidentally, cameras are far more delicate than guns.

[Tom488]

I want to install it but there are no instructions in the package on how and where to drill a hole in my clump for the wire. I emailed Champion but have not heard back yet.
Quick,

Your safe should already have a hole in it (I also have a Champion - looks to be the same size as yours), and mine has a hole in the bottom-right corner (if looking from the front). You can't see it from the front, because the fabric covers it. Look at the back of the safe, down in the corner.

[Quickdraw McGraw]

Quick,

Your safe should already have a hole in it (I also have a Champion - looks to be the same size as yours), and mine has a hole in the bottom-right corner (if looking from the front). You can't see it from the front, because the fabric covers it. Look at the back of the safe, down in the corner.

Thanks Tom I'll have to get it slid out and take a look. Should have noticed when we brought it in! That would be the perfect place cause there is an outlet right there!:)

[Quickdraw McGraw]

Yes there is a hole right were you said. :D Thanks maybe I can put the dri rod in tonight.

Hey Tom, do you know if there is wood behind the fabric on the door. I'm thinking of putting wooden spools on there to hold my handguns? I tap it but can't tell if its gypsum board or wood.

Thanks again

Kevin

[Quickdraw McGraw]

Hey guys I installed the Dri Rod in my clump about 10 minutes ago. The conditions in my clump were 73* and 54%. I will check it later :scrutiny: and report back!

[Greywolf]

I put some charcoal in a pair of my wife's old pantyhose, and some rice in anoter pair - got another 2% reduction in the humidity in there. Going to put a some silica gel in there as well - I'd like to get it below 50% and then I'd be pretty happy.

[Quickdraw McGraw]

Never thought of rice. Mine is at 53% after running dri rod all nigh (that bought me 3%). I'll have to try something else see if I can get it down a little more.

[JohnBT]

The humidity level really doesn't matter, as long as the inside of the safe stays 2 or 3 degrees warmer than the room it's in. That's why a GoldrenRod works so well - it prevents condensation by keeping the contents a couple of degrees warmer than the room air. (Yes, you need to wipe the fingerprints off and put a little oil on the metal, but you were going to do that anyway, right?)

Think about it. What happens if you take your gun out to the range on a warm day with 80% humidity? Nothing, it doesn't rust. Same thing if you prop your gun in a sunny corner on a high humidity day. Nothing, it won't rust before your eyes if it's warm and the air can circulate. That's how we managed to store our guns over the mantle or behind the kitchen door for decades and keep them rust free.

John

[0007]

GW -
I'm across the bay myself. For as long as I've had them the only thing I've used in my safes were Golden Rod heaters and when one broke a 25 watt light bulb. And that's in an un-air conditioned space. The secret is to maintain a reasonably stable temperature inside the safe. The humidity won't cause a problem if there aren't any temp swings to cause condensation to form. 'Course I do wipe the contents down every now and then.