Uberti Cattleman Issue


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drw2514
August 27, 2007, 03:49 PM
I have a brand new Uberti Cattleman in .45 Colt that keeps locking up on me. The primers seem to be coming out of the pockets a little (not sure of the correct terminology for that one). The "expanded" primers are dragging along the rear of the frame from the firing pin to the loading gate and are getting caught on a lip in the frame on the opposite side (see pictures). I don't think I'm using too hot of a load (8.0gr Unique, 250 RNFP, 1.57 OAL) and it has happened with both Winchester and CCI large pistol primers. Any ideas?


http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w12/drw2514/DSC00719.jpg



http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w12/drw2514/PrimerIssue.jpg

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Brad Johnson
August 27, 2007, 05:27 PM
A quick trip to the Alliant web site shows that load should be just shy of 12000 cup (11,800 specifically). That shouldn't be casuing any trouble, especially not protruding primers. Are you absolutely sure of your propellant charge and bullet weight?

Brad

YosemiteSam357
August 27, 2007, 06:17 PM
And seating depth? Crimp?

Those protruding primers are a sign of high pressure. I'd guess there's something wrong with that load. I'd triple check your powder weight.

-- Sam

mec
August 27, 2007, 07:03 PM
that ridge can cause a problem with any round that doesn't fully seat. I had it happen with my 32-20 because there was one chamber with a piece of crud in it that kept the case from going all the way in.

Primers will back out when you shoot plastic or wax bullets with primer only. People who use those genrally enlarge the primer pocket. this works but ruins the case for full loads. Your primers may be backing out because of excessive head space between cylinder and breech or they are not fully seated to begin with. If that were the case, you would be able to tell with unfired rounds.

If your cylinder has a great deal of endfloat- back and forth play- it may be that the firing pin is driveing the cylinder forward and allowing the primer to back out.

drw2514
August 27, 2007, 09:14 PM
I'm sure of my charge and bullet weights. I disassembled three of the rounds that I loaded at the same time as the rounds that were causing the problems, and all the bullets weight 252gr, two of the powder charges weighed 8.0gr and one weighed 7.9gr. I put a pretty heavy roll crimp in the cannelure of the bullet. The chambers are free of obstructions. The primers are seated a little below flush with the end of the cartridge (they don't stick out at all). There is almost no discernible 'endfloat' in the cylinder.

Stinger
August 27, 2007, 09:50 PM
That 8g of Unique may very well be an overpressure charge in YOUR gun. Memory tells me that 8g is a max load for non-Rugers, but I'll check.

My guess, though, is out of spec brass or overworked brass.

Brasso
August 27, 2007, 10:03 PM
Are your primers being punctured? That cci primer looks like it has a hole in it from the picture, but it may be the light. If it is punctured, that could be causing the primer to back out enough to hang it up. Usually what happens is that the primer does back out, and then get driven back in when the case slams into the breach face. Maybe something is preventing this from happening?

YosemiteSam357
August 27, 2007, 10:41 PM
Have you slugged the bore or chambers to determine their true size? If the bullets are oversized for either that could be creating your pressure situation.

Do the cases extract OK?

Speer #13 lists 9.5gr of Unique as the max for a 250gr lead bullet. The minimum charge is 8.6gr. The bullet they use, a SWC (Speer #4683), probably has similar profile to your LRN, and they seat to a depth of 1.600".

-- Sam

drw2514
August 27, 2007, 11:43 PM
It seems like the load data for this particular combination is all over the map. The data I have lists 8.0gr of Unique as both starting and max loads...? Some places list up to 9.x, others much lower. Who knows. I'm pretty sure this load isn't too much for my gun...recoil was a little light and the cases extracted just fine (tipped gun upwards and the brass fell through the open loading gate).

The primers are not punctured.

I haven't slugged the barrel or chambers as I have no idea how to even do that and I doubt I have the necessary equipment.

The brass is brand new and full length sized.

I won't be able to shoot the gun again until this weekend.

mec
August 28, 2007, 12:22 AM
I suspect excessive headspace. 8 grains of Unique is a standard load with that weight bullet and generally delivers high 800s to low 900 fps range depending on the individual gun.

Stinger
August 28, 2007, 12:44 AM
mec very well may be on to something. But if you are confident in your powder charges, I would not fire another round in that gun. Excessive headspace is normally caused from tons of use, but since this is a new gun, it could certainly have been screwed up from the factory.

Time for phone call to customer service. See what they have to say and get it fixed.

drw2514
August 29, 2007, 02:16 AM
It so happens that my roommate's dad had a set of "go, no-go" gauges for .45 colt (along with many other cartridges, so I took several of my milsurp rifles, too! :) ). With the go gauge in the cylinder rotated fine. The no-go gauge dragged along the frame until it hit the lip where the primers were catching and it wouldn't rotate any more. So I'm guessing headspace is okay, at least according to the gauges.

Maybe this was just a one time thing? Breaking-in the gun or something? I did only try a handful of rounds...

Joe the Redneck
August 29, 2007, 07:44 PM
Yes, reloading data is all over the poard on this. On the webpage below the suthor seems to think that Unique is tough on guns and would never go beyond 8.5 grs of Unique.

Just for your consideration.

Obvisouly, the load you are using is overpressured for your gun. It doesn't matter what the book says, in the end, it is your gun.

Back off to 7 grns and see if things improve.

http://www.reloadammo.com/45cload.htm

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