Good Deals or Rippoffs?


July 5, 2003, 06:30 PM
Now that my Plans for Moving back to the states are well under way I'm starting to look into prices for the firearms I may/may not get once I get moved back...

note: hope to be back in the US by late 2004 at the latest

Anyway, the problem is I've never actualy Owned my own gun, (done a good bit of shooting though) so I'm relitivly unsure what prices are good deals or complete Rippoffs...

In the line of a Simi-Auto Pistol i'm looking at 3 possables that I like..

HK MK23 (Complete NFA Set)
Beretta M93-R
& the ever Popular Desert Eagle XIX

(Before you Ask "What? No Glock?" I don't like Glock's...:p)

Today I found one set I like, but i'm not so sure about the price, seams a little on the up hill side...Here (

As Far as Rifle's Go my personal likes are...

NFA M16 class 3
HK PSG-1 ("if" i Can find a Cheap one(never could figure out why they banned them))
Grizly Big Bore 50 BMG (liked it since I first saw one)

I'm not nessisaraly going to get all of them (well, mabie over time I "might"..:))
but I understadably don't want to get Conned

Any Info will be Great!:)

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July 5, 2003, 07:14 PM
I think there are only twenty-some transferrable Beretta 93Rs in the country. Good luck there, and I hope you have a big pile of money. The USP and Desert Eagle are easy to find, though. There are a couple of each at my local gun shop. Don't know about the Mk 23.

An M16 will start at about $6000 (IIRC) and go up from there. A PSG will probably be at least that much as well. Why a PSG, if you don't mind my asking? For the money you can get way better rifles.

July 5, 2003, 08:06 PM
Why a PSG, if you don't mind my asking? For the money you can get way better rifles.

Just a Personal Liking, which others would you suguest?

Chris Rhines
July 5, 2003, 08:57 PM
All of the firearms you mention are going to cost a bucketfull of cash, assuming you can even find one. Quite frankly, they wouldn't be my first choices for first guns.

If you could describe the kind of shooting that you want to do, we (THR in general) could probably make some semi-informed suggestions. What kind of shooting background do you have, fer instance?

- Chris

July 5, 2003, 09:07 PM
Good luck on that 93R! The other three shouldn't be a problem. They're are plenty of Desert Eagles and USP 45s around. There's even a gun shop above me with two MK23s.

July 5, 2003, 09:55 PM
Well, For one thing I've allways been a bit of a Marksman, So Accuracy is quite Important, and I'm a Sucker for High Quallity.
(hence why I like Millitary Arms)

As for the kind of Shooting I'd be doing, I'd more than Likely do a quite a bit of Long Range Target Shooting, some Full Auto Target Shooting and bit of hunting.

I figure the PSG-1 or a Simmalar Rifle would be best for both the Long Range target shooting and some hunting.

and the Grizly would more or less be a "Fun Gun":D First saw one in a Hunting & Fishing shop In Oregon back in 95 and the shop owner told me quite a lot about it which has had me wanting one ever since...:)

a Handgun i'd use mostly for target shooting, and mabie a little hunting, but if the need ever came (and I pray it never does!) it would also be used to defend.

the MK23 Is the one I've researched the most and like due to it's reliabillity and the fact that it dosn't look like those toy like compacts. (Plus I like HK's)
much the same applys to the USP 45.

The M93 is more or less a "In your Dreams" thing, if I ever saw one it'd be a good collectors pice.:rolleyes:

The DE XIX I like because you can put up to a 14" Barrel on it and make it a one for all uses kind of gun, IMO it's a Very Versitile Weapon.

And the resoning behind my wanting Pre-Ban Hi-Cap Mags is the common Logic of "It's better to have it and not need it, than not have it and need it!".

Anyway, if this post reads a bit scattered it's because it's 3AM here, I'm Tired and can't sleep... :(

July 5, 2003, 10:08 PM
A "cheap" PSG is around 10K. They go up from there.

Your list looks like you are either extremely wealthy, or already have one of everything else. Your post indicates you don't own a gun. If I was in your position, I'd learn how to shoot before blowing my wad on a bunch of overpriced hardware.

If I had a dollar for every rich guy that came into my shop and bought $4K+ precision rifle setups and thought that would automatically make them a good shooter, I could retire or afford $4K+ precision rifle setups.

Oh, and by the way, you can build a rig for half the price of a PSG that will outshoot it hands down.

July 5, 2003, 10:25 PM
Here's one way to do a quick price survey. Go to and do a search for the particular model of interest.

The way the site is laid out, you can quickly see the price range, availability, and new vs. used examples. Presumably, the prices are actual asking prices on actual guns. A similar search exercise can be done on (online gun auction). If you check the search box marked "no reserve", you'll eliminate a lot of misleading clutter, i.e, the guy that starts his auction at $1, with a high hidden reserve, which is meaningless from a real price standpoint.

I've gotten my best deals on guns over the internet.

Mark Tyson
July 5, 2003, 10:37 PM
You are not going to find a cheap PSG, unless by cheap you mean at LEAST 9000 USD. If you want a very accurate .308/7.62x51mm semi-auto rifle, you have a number of good options:

Springfield Armory M1A National Match, Super Match, et. al. You sound as if you have deep pockets, so if you want the very best go for the M25 White Feather which I believe runs around $4000.

Armalite AR-10 match versions, at about $2000 or so. These can be "accurized" to the point of absurdity.

Get the best optics you can afford for either of these - Swarovski makes good stuff.

Armalite also makes a good .50 caliber which may want to check out before you buy a Grizzly.

July 6, 2003, 01:21 AM
Full Auto Target Shooting That's a new one to me. I don't know of any formal competitions for full-auto accuracy.

For long range shooting and hunting, a good bolt-action is a better choice than a semi. Bolts are more accurate dollar-for-dollar. As Mark Tyson implied, don't skimp on optics. You'd be better off with a $1000 scope on a $200 rifle than the other way around.

Have you done any formal competition? From your initial list, I can't help but think that your taste in firearms has its roots in Counter-Strike or something similar. :p

July 6, 2003, 02:21 AM
If you want accuracy, check out the stuff at Norm Chandler will be happy to set you up to whatever level you want and can afford.

If you are looking at wanting class III stuff, be sure you can own it where ever you decide to settle. Like everbody else has pretty much said, look around before you decide to buy.. And ask questions here and on other gun-related sites.

Good to know someone else is making plans to leave the Dark Side for the Light. :D :D

July 6, 2003, 02:47 AM
Skip the Grizzly and get a Serbu, A real honest to G-d plumbers rifle :D

July 6, 2003, 09:40 AM
Make sure you move somewhere that you can actually BUY the Class III stuff.

Chris Rhines
July 6, 2003, 09:55 AM
Thanks, Zedicus. Now I feel like I can at least give you some bad advice... ;)

First, forget about the PSG. They're insanely expensive and probably not worth the price.

For long-range target shooting: My first choice would be a service-grade AR-15 of some kind (Maybe a Bushmaster or a Rock River Arms DCM rifle.) Then, when you get back to the 'States, find a club that hosts NRA Highpower competitions, and shoot in them. You'll learn oodles about shooting out to 600 yards, position shooting, wind doping, et cetera.

If you want something more like a traditional "sniper rifle," I'd get a stock Remington 700PSS, put a fantastic scope on it, and have fun.

If you want a .50 caliber rifle, the Grizzly is a pretty good choice. Before buying one, make sure that you have a place to shoot it (i.e. at least 500 yards, and a thousand is better.) Also, go ahead and order a copy of The Complete .50-Caliber Sniper Course : Hard-Target Interdiction by Dean Michaelis. You can get it off

As for handguns: The HK Mark 23 and the USP45 are both fine guns. I'd probably lean towards the USP45 myself, but try them both out and see which one you like best. Get lots of magazines, 20 is not too many.

Whatever you end up with, spend alot of time at the range and get to every shooting school/class you can. There's no point in having a bunch of guns that you can't shoot well...

- Chris

July 6, 2003, 04:34 PM

I'm thinking you should maybe dismiss all of your notions and spend time at the range. With the exception of that USP, everything you listed is an oddball.

July 16, 2003, 09:51 AM
everything you listed is an oddball.
Hey, who want's to be Normal?:D

Anyway in the Rifle area i'm now looking at the Browning BAR High-Grade This One! (

And others that are Simmalar, Figured a Classic Style one like that would be a better use of the Cash, not to mention it looks good :)

Sean Smith
July 16, 2003, 10:16 AM
I hope you realize that your ability to get all those Class 3 goodies is entirely dependent on where you live, since you need the local head of law enforcement to sign off on the transaction.. and many of them will automatically reject any request. You will also need to be made of money to afford any of them. :D

July 16, 2003, 01:27 PM
Yes, I am fully aware of all of that, and like I said I don't plan to get them all at once.

July 16, 2003, 02:58 PM

This will at least give you some idea of what the price ranges tend to be.


July 16, 2003, 05:07 PM
The DE XIX I like because you can put up to a 14" Barrel on it and make it a one for all uses kind of gun, IMO it's a Very Versitile Weapon.

Here in the States, 14" bbls for the DEP Mk XIXs are not available (AFAIK and from MR site). If you want a 14"er, it will have to be a Mk I or Mk VII.

July 16, 2003, 05:27 PM

When you get back to the States and buy all of these wonderful weapons, let me be the first to invite you to move here to Tennessee. You and your rather exotic arsenal would make an interesting addition to our THR trips to the range.

Ian, you're not the only one who sees the signs of video-game-induced IWannaCoolGunVirus .


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