SHTF stuff


July 5, 2003, 11:40 PM
After reading some of TFL's various posts reguarding SHTF, I gasp and stare with disbelief that such considerations are necessary. Now when I say this I am not coming from the POV of a sheeple who believes the gov can do no harm, but a sheeple (still converting, baaaahhh) who doesnt think that such an incredibly large amount of SHTF will happen. Am I just delusional, not pessimistic enough (that would be a stretch), or just ignorant of things others know? Take that thread for example. It has people listing insane amounts of ammo for the express purpose of SHTF. Just what kind of situation will anyone need 10k rounds of ammo for all of their guns combined?:scrutiny: 10-man squad loadouts dont have that much ammo (if there is only one SAW {mil designation?}). In the opinion of this almost fully converted sheeple, that is an absolutely insane amount of ammo.

I welcome anyone who wishes to "straighten me out" and see the light.

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July 6, 2003, 12:13 AM
>Just what kind of situation will anyone need 10k rounds of ammo for all of their guns combined?

A very partial list:
Armenians 1918
Ukrainians 1918-91
German Jews 1932-45
Other European Jews 1939-45 (seen The Pianist? Or read Mila 18?)
Latvia 1940
Finland 1940
Mostofeurope 1940
Switzerland 1940 (and since they all actually had the ammo, they didn't need it!!)
China 1930-49
Israel 1948
Cambodia 1975
Post-Shah Iran
ex-Jugoslavia (moce biti seguran, znaju da "bolje grob nego rob")
Rwanda Tutsi massacres
Other African megamassacres you've forgotten
LA riots (my friend who lived out there was suddenly popular among all his non-gun-owning friends)
Marsopolis air riots, 2015

Governments killed a couple hundred million people in the 20th century by shooting or gassing them (and a billion people by parasitically draining economies). I'm not going to claim that personal weapons could have stopped this everywhere and everywhen, but the fact remains that if you have a 100-year timeline your odds are good of SHTF wherever you live (except Switzerland or the Duchy of Grand Fenwick)

On the other hand, your personal risk balance might well be better served by an arsenal of one surplus bolt-action and ten rounds, so that you can afford a good health club, a gas mask, a Rutan suborbital spacecraft, a personal telomere-reset lab, and all the other little necessities for dealing with life's contingencies. But don't discourage other people from stocking ammo...

July 6, 2003, 12:14 AM
Use the excess to trade for things you didn't stock up on or have run out of.


July 6, 2003, 12:20 AM
Like the old saying goes.."Better to have it and not need it..."

July 6, 2003, 12:33 AM
Ok, I deserved to have Europe 1939-1945 slap me in the face. I guess I was thinking "How much S(could)HTF in ARKANSAS?" I really wasnt thinking that some tyrannical despot was going to be elected (or whatever) and start rounding up Anglo-Saxon decendants for genocide. My point was I couldnt see having such a large amount of ammo for general SHTF, as opposed to "Dear friggin Christ, our entire military has been brainwashed by some looney liberal and has decided that I personally and likeminded individuals should die!".

Just because I said I was a recovering sheeple doesnt mean that it takes a fire-hose of the past century's genocidal mayhem to convey a point. A nice explanation of possibilities here in the states would suffice. LA was a good example. I dont know the story on Cambodia in '75. Pol-pot? I dont know anything about it besides a million people died (begin flaming my ignorance now, avoid the rush).

Anyway, my original post wasnt entirely clear. I do know that things can happen, I just dont know what can happen here. I really dont think the 101st Airborne is going to drop on my house and start $h|t. If they did, the People's Republic of Fayettnam would be screwed, because all they would have is their "Smoke Free Fayetteville" signs to defend themselves.

Awaiting more answers...

July 6, 2003, 12:36 AM
If any number of politicians were to have their way, ammo would be illegal. If that situation becomes reality, how long would you like to be able to shoot for (in practice and recreation, if nothing else)? Keep that much ammo around. I don't know about you, but I can go through a couple hundred rounds in a morning at the range with ease. In that light, even 10k isn't more than a year or two's supply.

Even if ammo remains legal for the foreseeable future, the chances are very high that its manufacture and importation will be further regulated and/or restricted, thereby increasing its cost. Right now most surplus ammo is cheaper than its ever been before (in terms of real dollar value). Buying it up now makes good economic sense.

Finally, there is the possibility (albeit remote) of having to use your firearms to defend yourself from the [insert bad guys here]. In such a situation you would have to supply yourself for some time, and probably also most of your neighbors. That 10k-round pile of ammo looks a lot smaller when you divide it ten ways.

July 6, 2003, 12:37 AM

While SHTF Packs and BOB are almost used synonymously, I have more of a BOB than a SHTF pack.

SHTF for me was the LA riots back in 1992. Schools out..yaaay...luckily the goblins didn't make it over to my neighborhood, but it was pretty scary.

BOB was for the two major earthquakes (ok one major and one MAAAJOORRR) and too many other medium-sized earthquakes for me to count. I should have had a pack ready in case my house was about to sit on me. I also woke up in the middle of the night because my neighbor's garage (a good 20 yards from my bedroom) was filled with paint and was on fire. Kinda scary waking up and your room is all orange. Also another time, a piece of burning something flew from a highrise and landed on the roof of a house two houses down. We ran outside with nothing but our jammies. The LA Fire Department will save us!!!!

I think all this happened to me in a span of six years (?).

SHTF may be for apocalypse/TEOTWAWKI, but BOBs are perennial. You never know when the people in the unit below you will go out for a jog and leave the stove on.

Yes, I have one in the car too in case I'm stuck on the road. Traffic's bad enough in the LA basin when things are normal, we don't need any more collapsed freeways.

July 6, 2003, 12:45 AM
A lot of ammo does a few things. Its at least somewhat of a deterrance to an outright dictatorship being introduced 'today' (It would be a logistical nightmare for them to try and take the country by force, they'd probably barely have enough guys to protect the bases), It allows one to practice more, have barterables to trade for essentials if SHTF, and peace of mind I guess (feels better to have 5000 sitting there than 500).

Because too much ammo doesn't happen.

July 6, 2003, 12:46 AM
Wow. Good reply Ian, Skunk, and Edward. (Hmm, the picture seems to be clearing. Damned fog.)

BTW, I am familiar with the only excess ammo is ammo that one cannot use/carry. It does no good where it is not needed and cannot be reached.

What is a BOB and TEOTWAWKI?

July 6, 2003, 12:48 AM
>I guess I was thinking "How much S(could)HTF in ARKANSAS?"

Naturally, no evil politicians could arise in Arkansas. (For instance, no politician who would order cruise missile strikes on a Third World medical factory to get his affair with an intern off the front page.) Or are you postulating that no evil politician would ever want to RETURN to poverty-stricken Arkansas? (Mandatory Texas bash of neighboring state that actually has a reliable water supply).

Personally, if I were an evil politician I would put my "Bavarian retreat" in Arkansas. It's a very pretty state.

July 6, 2003, 12:53 AM
Naturally, no evil politicians could arise in Arkansas

That isnt what I meant. I meant...screw it. Forget I asked. And yes, it is a very pretty state with a very NICE, RELIABLE water system, unless you are in St.Paul. Then its sulfur water for you.

Anyone with a REASONABLE answer please continue, as you know what I meant.

July 6, 2003, 01:00 AM
To put it another way:

It ain't like the stuff goes bad. If you know you shoot it regularly, it's much cheaper to buy every six months to a year in case lots than every week in 20- or 50-round boxes, you know what I mean?

Having a couple of thousand rounds in the basement doesn't mean you're paranoid, it just means you're a smart shopper. ;)

July 6, 2003, 01:04 AM
True paranoia is somewho's in possession of all the facts.

And just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't really out to get you.


July 6, 2003, 01:10 AM
BOB: Bug-Out Bag. What you grab when a fire/flood/invasion/earthquake/swarm of locusts necessitates leaving quickly.

TEOTWAWKI: The End Of The World As We Know It. Major and fundamental disruption to your lifestyle, potentially caused by invasion, blossoming tyranny, drought, famine, pandemic disease, or the sight of Hillary on your front lawn.

July 6, 2003, 01:15 AM
BTW, I am familiar with the only excess ammo is ammo that one cannot use/carry. It does no good where it is not needed and cannot be reached.

Two types of situations, one where you would want to bunk down at your place and wait for it to blow over. Throw in a bunch of looters like the LA Riots. I wasn't there nor did I follow the coverage (too young and stupid to know or care) of the Hurricane Andrew ordeal, but I imagine it was the same. During the riots, we could count on using our toilets, utilities, kitchen, but during the earthquakes, we couldn't. And I prefer meals that don't require any sort of flame :uhoh: (gas leaks and whatnot)

More ammo, the merrier. I save money if I buy the stuff in bulk, anyway. I hate having not being able to shoot a match because I was too stupid to resupply, and the stuff is out of stock at the local gun stores. I stockpile ammo the same way I stockpile food, just so I don't have to shop as much.

Other situations like a flood, volcano, monster attacks, etc. throw what you can in the car and go. If I'm in the car, sure I'll take extra, but if I'm on foot, heck, I might not even bring a long gun.

Much nicer to be stuck at home, at least you have your creature comforts to keep your family members and yourself sane while you wait for order to be restored.

July 6, 2003, 01:28 AM
Hi every one!
They call me Abenaki, I have been lurking in the shadows for a long time.

Why have lots of ammo?
Well.....What if you loose your health and can't go back to work?
Or the economy takes a total dump for a few years and you are out of work? Or maybe you are saving it up so that you can do a lot of shooting when you retire?

Another reason aint gonna get any cheaper!


July 6, 2003, 02:06 AM
Sometimes we probably get a little carried away, and no, you'll never need 10K rounds in a SHTF scenario. But then again, there's no real downside in trying to be prepared, just in case. The only problem, as I see it, is if you stock up on ammo and somehow think you're prepared. There are probably 50 things that would be far more important than the ammo if the bad stuff ever happens.

July 6, 2003, 02:09 AM
Abenaki's last line said it best -
It's only going to cost more next year. I have boxes of (stored) .22 ammo that cost me about $.50/box back when. I still buy it a brick at a time when it's on sale. Same with milsurp and non-milsurp in other calibers. Someday it will not be available. If you don't think so, that's your perogative. I'll just keep buying when I see it on sale. :D

July 6, 2003, 02:32 AM
Moparmike, I gotta say, I'm with you. I never have more than 500 rounds stored for eventualities (probably another 500-1000 for plinking, etc. just laying around depending on how recently I went to the range). My feeling is that if things go south we will have some warning and I will stock up. And for sudden riots, biker hoardes, etc., 500 rounds is plenty for me and the little family unit.

July 6, 2003, 08:26 AM
I also have to agree somewhat with MoparMike. My SHTF gear consists of the essentials to survive 3 days after a hurricane. There are no guns involved really. There here in the house but not with the gear and I will most likely be able to get to them afterward. Ammo? I have a few hundred rounds of this and that but nothing major. But, alas, some folks sleep and feel better knowing they are better prepared from a firepower standpoint.


July 6, 2003, 08:29 AM
While not too worried about the cataclysmic (sp?) type SHTF scenario I am concerned about the "liberty dying from a thousand little cuts" I see happening all around me (especially living in the east coast focal point of creeping socialism). Who knows what will be banned or made illegal next year. So I'm buying what I can as I can, and that includes sufficient ammo to feed all my little friends for a prolonged period of time. Call it saving for a rainy day - whether it's "rainy" because of a change in my job situation or a change in the political climate.

So far at least in Maryland every new restriction has grandfathered what we already own. I'm working on the biggest, baddest grampa I can manage :D

July 6, 2003, 08:52 AM
Ditto that mdshooter!
I do not believe that there will be a SHTF situation. Frankly, we have a far more dangerous situation, we are slowly bleeding away our individual rights.
Massachusetts has a terrible reputation on gun issues but right now the reality is that with a Class A license I can buy a hand gun over the counter and walk out of the store in under 15 minutes. WallyWorld is fully stocked with pistol, rifle and shotgun ammo at prices that you can't get over the internet (yeah, shipping costs do add up!)
However, that could change tomorrow. I have just under 10,000 rounds of .30/06, .308, .223, .45, .40, .22 and 12 gauge ammo. It just sort of adds up!

July 6, 2003, 09:27 AM
There's a difference between having 10k rounds b/c you're scared, or 10k because you shoot a lot.

There's also a difference between 10k round of the same caliber vs 1k rounds of each for 10 different guns.

Back when I had only a few guns, I thought 1k rounds was a lot to have around the house. Now I shoot every week and have many more guns of differing chambers. Every time I get a gun in a different caliber, I buy 500-1000 rounds of ammo for it.

I actually don't have any idea how much ammo I have in the house right now, but it's gotta be close to 10k.

As others have said, it's not gonna get any cheaper, and some is getting harder to find. :cuss:

July 6, 2003, 09:55 AM
People are anesthesized by television and other mind-numbing creature comforts....if that goes kaput, y'all better prepare for TEOTWAWKI! ;)

(heck what am I gonna do if I can't THR for a day?!?!?!) :p

July 6, 2003, 10:38 AM
This is mostly directed at Roscoe, TarpleyG and MoparMike.
Roscoe said
My feeling is that if things go south we will have some warning and I will stock up.
IIRC, there was no warning on September 11th. How long did it take for the major chain stores to stop selling ammo? How many days or weeks later did it take for UPS and FedEx to get caught up? For how terrible that day was I think we got off pretty easy because there were no immediate follow-up attacks. Just imagine if on Sept 12th various bio/chem attacks started in the major cities? Or how about truck bombs on Sept 13th?

If things would have gone any further south, those 10k rounds would have looked pretty good, IMNSHO.

ps. I can't get that link to work from the original post.

July 6, 2003, 11:08 AM
10k rounds is probably excessive, unless the intent is to sustain over a LONG time, or a LOT of friends.

OTOH, a coupla thousand rounds/caliber is sensible, and when you go to the range once a week and light up 300-500 rounds, it doesn't seem like much at all.

Remember, if SHTF, the very first thing they do is close the gun/ammo shops.....

Mark Tyson
July 6, 2003, 11:21 AM
I don't think it's paranoid to have huge ammounts of ammo on hand. It goes fast; I usually shoot up at least 200 rounds at a time. There are gun control proposals out there to tax ammo at absurd rates in order to eliminate the supply. As one victim disarmament proponent put it: we have a hundred year supply of guns in the country, but only a two or three year supply of ammunition.

July 6, 2003, 11:36 AM
I share the opinion with others here that it's a good idea to have several thousand rounds available, if only for the simple reason that it is cheaper to buy in bulk and that ammo is only going to get more expensive as time goes on. However, my collection (small though it is) utilizes rounds that are commonly available (.22lr and .308, soon to add 12ga to the mix), and in the future I will probably only buy guns which share ammunition with my current stock. Just simplifying logistics is all.

George Hill
July 6, 2003, 11:41 AM
Ok, I deserved to have Europe 1939-1945 slap me in the face. I guess I was thinking "How much S(could)HTF in ARKANSAS?" I really wasnt thinking that some tyrannical despot was going to be elected (or whatever) and start rounding up Anglo-Saxon decendants for genocide. My point was I couldnt see having such a large amount of ammo for general SHTF, as opposed to "Dear friggin Christ, our entire military has been brainwashed by some looney liberal and has decided that I personally and likeminded individuals should die!"

Classic example of the "It Can't Happen Here"/"It Won't Happen To Me" syndrome.
I hope your right. I really do.

July 6, 2003, 11:55 AM
The more you buy, the more they'll make.

Brian Maffei
July 6, 2003, 12:28 PM
10K is an 'insane amount' of ammo? :uhoh: I have several cases of oil for my car, is that an 'insane amount' too?

July 6, 2003, 03:59 PM
I understand the "I shoot alot" side. Having no money, I wish I had that much money to "burn":D. I understand the "Its cheap now, so why not" as I am quite thrifty myself and like to shop at Sams. (Now there is an idea for ammo buying. Ammo at Sams. It would be nice:))

It was my understanding that these people had 10k rounds stashed for the sole purpose (ie specififcally earmarked) of SHTF. Then they had an entirely separate pile of 100's or 1000's of rounds for plinking, hunting, etc. I totally understand that with a .22, as I went thru half a brick in a couple of hours without knowing I had. I still cant see why I would need 10k worth without a belt fed weapon (then I need more :D), but that is one's peroggative.

I used to keep a case of oil in my car. I consider oil to be different, because I never knew if my car was going to have a SHTF moment and it was handy. Same reason I kept all my tools in my trunk as well. I always thought of it differently than ammo. ( I know, I dont wear my seatbelt because I expect an accident...)

Thanks for all the great replys.

Standing Wolf
July 6, 2003, 04:45 PM
If it can happen there, it can happen here. Heaven knows there's nothing like a shortage of leftist extremists who'd be delighted to turn the United States into a people's republic.

July 6, 2003, 05:21 PM
Hey Moparmike,

If you collect and shoot a variety of guns, then 10K of ammo doesn't stretch as much as it would seem initially. I shoot 12 calibers in hand and long guns. It becomes economical to buy in cases of 1000 rds.

Even if we aren't talking SHTF, hunters and plinker will have a few bricks of .22LR handy always.

BTW, I have been in Cambodia as well as some other nasty areas of SE Asia -there is such a thing as SHTF.

I have also run out of ammo before, it's always better to have more than you need than not enough.

July 6, 2003, 07:03 PM
>I have several cases of oil for my car

Brian! You are obviously a dangerous survivalist, as opposed to a... what's the opposite of survivalist? I confess to not having even one case of oil, and that's something I'm going to fix next time at Wal-Mart. It's dumb to pay gas-station prices for oil.

July 6, 2003, 08:15 PM
what's the opposite of survivalist?

A diealist? :confused:

July 6, 2003, 10:55 PM
If it can happen there, it can happen here. Heaven knows there's nothing like a shortage of leftist extremists who'd be delighted to turn the United States into a people's republic.

Kinda like the People's Republic of Fayettenam (Fayetteville AR for those out of state)


Just a thought


Carlos Cabeza
July 7, 2003, 01:04 PM
10K round isn't really an excessive amount of ammo. I do not have that much on hand but I do rotate in newer stuff after a heavy shooting session, (4th of July weekend). I would be impractical to think an individual could move or transport that much in a SHTF situation so I would have several, easily accessible locations from which to restock my provisions. Each containing a predetermined amount for all firearms included in my extended BOB pack. I am confident that we probably won't see any teotwawki type situations in my lifetime but I value the independence and liberties that preparedness affords me. I do think that another serious attack is highly probable, and could easily disrupt the economic systems that enable this country to function i.e trucking/transportation, banking/financial, food/sustenance, communications etc.

July 7, 2003, 01:25 PM
Just what kind of situation will anyone need 10k rounds of ammo for all of their guns combined?
One could say the exact same thing about your refrigerator and pantry stuffed with food. Got a separate freezer? What the heck for? Isn't that awful of you to hoard all that food, especially when there are people starving on our streets?

What do you have an entire closet full of clothes for? What could your wife and daughter possibly need with dozens of pairs of shoes and purses?

Why do you need more than one gun?

Do you see where I'm going with this, Mike?

In the opinion of this almost fully converted sheeple, that is an absolutely insane amount of ammo. That's nice you feel that way. I'm not trying to be offensive or condescending, but why does it matter to you so much what other people do? :scrutiny:

I also happen to think it a bit overkill for someone to have tens of thousands of rounds of ammo, but if I had the money I probably would too. Just because I can.

I do think a few thousand isn't a bad idea. One thing that most people really don't seem to keep in mind when thinking of SHTF supplies is, "How the HECK am I going to transport all this stuff?"

It is a crucial question that I believe pretty much no one really considers. Just how are you going to transport and have ready for fast access x number of magazines? Are you REALLY going to try to carry a rifle, pistol, AND a shotgun, with sufficient ammo for each? You ever tried hiking or even walking flat ground with that much hardware?

Try adding food to that.

Being prepared is just smart. But not enough people are practical and realistic about it, IMO.

I know I'm still trying... :)

July 7, 2003, 01:46 PM
How the HECK am I going to transport all this stuff?"

Tactical shopping cart.:D

Lord Grey Boots
July 7, 2003, 02:02 PM
Let see, recent SHTF situations.

Ice Storms (Montreal a few years ago, homes were off limits for 6 weeks)
Hurricane Andrew in Florida
SF Earthquake
Tornadoes in bulk in the plain states, just a few weeks ago.
Forest Fires
Riots (WTC Seattle, and various others)
Floods (several whole states were under water a few years ago)

etc etc.

The Pacific NW has been pretty lucky in avoiding major weather issues, but that seems to be rather unique in the US.

July 7, 2003, 03:43 PM
10-man squad loadouts dont have that much ammo

While that may be true, they are not expected to carry all the ammo/supplies they need for a tour. At the end of a patrol they go back to base and get more. So maybe they have that much stocked up at base? If not, it can be transported in, right?

Don't think MAC will be airdropping supplies to my house when TSHTF.

I am a small time collector, and I still need 7 different kinds of ammo. In .223 I have 2000+ rounds, but with 2 AR-15s a trip to the range is 3-400 used up. So practically speaking we don't have enough.

Besides, if things get very bad, common calibers will be currency. If anarchy reigned, and you wanted a hot meal, you would probably have a better chance of getting it if you offered to pay with .22 LR than with pieces of green paper with printing on them. Makes good TP though (it's washable).


July 7, 2003, 05:53 PM
It is a crucial question that I believe pretty much no one really considers. Just how are you going to transport and have ready for fast access x number of magazines? Are you REALLY going to try to carry a rifle, pistol, AND a shotgun, with sufficient ammo for each? You ever tried hiking or even walking flat ground with that much hardware? The ammo goes in my vehicle. In case of SHTF, I plan to retreat to my grandmother's farm. - plenty of food and water there. I would stash ammo in the house, hide some strategically in the barn... keep plenty in vehicles... keep plenty on me... by the time I do that I may not have a lot in a single place. If I had to leave QUICKLY I would have all I could carry on me... if via car or truck I should have additional ammo there.

Hmmmm.... maybe I DO need help. :uhoh:

Dave R
July 7, 2003, 06:59 PM
MoparMike, Lord Grey Boots put it in the most practical term, I believe.

I have actually used my SHTF stuff twice (not ammo, but food/batteries/water, etc.)

I was living 7 miles from the epicenter of the Loma Prieta Quake in '89. That's the "World Series Quake". My little town had no electricity, and water on the "suspect" list, for 3 days. The local stores would only let a few people in at a time, with flashlights, and cash payment. No way to process credit cards or verify checks. I measured the line at one time at over a mile long.

Then I moved to Southern Florida in time for Hurricane Andrew. I was only out of power for a day, but I saw lots of people from Homedale shopping for generators in the stores near me--the most southern stores who were open the day after. There were isloated incidents of looters "deterred" by homeowners brandishing firearms. If it had been much worse, there may have been some shooting.

Those are both relatively small-scale natural disasters. In a bigger disaster, it might be difficult for local stores to re-supply. And there is not enoug food in any given town's grocery stores to support the entire town for more than a week or so. After that, things could get bad, since hungry people can do depserate things.

And in my town, in December 1999, you could not find ammo in poplar calibers on the shelves. It had all been bought/hoarded by the Y2K crowd. Just goes to show, if you ever really need it, it probably won't be available at the local store.

July 7, 2003, 07:05 PM
why stock lots of guns and ammo? two words: SARAH BRADY!!


July 7, 2003, 09:23 PM
Like I said before, I was thinking that the 10k was expressly for SHTF, and then they had a separate plinking, hunting pile.

After looking into an 8mm Mauser, I realize that buying milsurp in large quantities makes sense, at $71/1000 in clips & bandoliers. I understand the food side, and am beginning to see more clearly why one would want that. I can understand more clearly how one would need that much ammo. I just wish I would have bought 30-06 when it was cheap, instead of the ungodly price it has reached even for milsurp.


July 7, 2003, 10:25 PM
hide some strategically in the barn...

Uhh, lets hope you were strategically lieing about its location when you strategically posted it on the net!:uhoh:


July 8, 2003, 02:03 AM
Uhh, lets hope you were strategically lieing about its location when you strategically posted it on the net!
Yeah, but I didn't say WHICH barn!!!:neener:

(Then again, we only have ONE barn! :banghead: )


Travis McGee
July 8, 2003, 04:11 AM

The problem of course is that once TSHTF, the gun stores may be closed for the rest of your life, (as long or short as that may be.)

So what you have got on hand may have to last forever.

To read one vision of how even the good old USA could slide into a shooting civil war, read the 20 chapters of "Enemies Foreign and Domestic" posted on my book's website at .

The finished book should go to the printer this week.

May 13, 2004, 03:29 AM
Eh. Ammo, I need more ammo.
Great. Now I'm paranoid.

May 13, 2004, 04:02 AM
Never know when you may have to pass out a few thousand rounds to friends! I don't think I have 10k rounds total but I'll git to loadin' and fix that! :p

May 13, 2004, 04:32 AM
Watched the '91 L.A. Riots from a comfortable 30mi distance, on TV.
Heard much about the '92 post-Hurricane Andrew mess from a good friend with family in Homestead.
Was right on top of the '94 Northridge quake (block SW of the apartments where most of the dead were) and was caught completely flat-footed by it - little disaster supplies, NO gas.
2001 (post Y2K scare) was a great time to buy affordable polypropylene storage containers / barrels / jugs. ;)

Now there are earthquake supplies sealed / stored by the pool equipment out back. large amount of canned food / fluids in the pantries, mini-BOB in the cars, my cars are never under a 1/4 tank, my dual-tank pickup always has one full, and there are 10gal kept at home. And a modest second/vacation home in the Sierras, with some add'l ammo and moderate supplies.

Accumulating a few spare hand tools is easy, who doesn't like buying new tools, bump the old ones to the kit.
Spare clothes / shoes, also easy.
Costco makes bulk food stores easy, once you've built up your stocks, just remember to eat the old stuff first.
(shrug) I had enough of MREs in the Marines, I'll be damned if I choose to buy them.

Nothing really oddball in my supplies, all of it is useful. I've only got two major SHTF scenarios - another major natural disaster, or a mega terror attack on L.A. - but if that comes, I'm far enough on the fringe, and on the north side of Greater L.A., that I'll survive such a thing and get the hell out (and to the mountains).

Ammo? Don't have 1000 rds for any firearm, but plenty variety in firearms so the total is still not small.

May 13, 2004, 06:56 AM
Hm. Loads of interesting replies.

Here's a simple one: The easiest way that any prospective repressive government could have to restrict the weaponry of it's citizen's isn't to ban guns - it's to ban the ammunition that goes in them.

Arguably, it's easier to seize and destroy the rounds themselves than the weapons that fire them. Making 5.56mm rounds "Military Use Only" would render useless one heck of a lot of the more effective SHTF-grade weaponry lying around. Saying "Well, 7.62's un-American. Let's ban that, too." would be an easy step.

I'm not saying it's likely - I'm saying it could happen. Even here in the Peepul's Republik of Tony, I've got my own little BOB for that very reason. Anyone who's seen British football yobs en masse can probably understand why. Heck, I'd be a lot happer with ten-grand of semijacket that I could lay hand on, instead of the rudiments that I can feasably keep in the house.

In short, Moparmike: "Why would you keep 10k rounds in the house against the SHTF"?

"In the hope of never needing them".

Joe Demko
May 13, 2004, 09:02 AM
I base my calculations on a 10k rounds per man per weapon per day minimum. Remember, TSHTF is all about shooting people.

May 13, 2004, 09:08 AM
As far as attitudes go, Americans fall somewhere within the vast nebulous region dividing Union Admiral David Farragut and literary stalwart Ambrose Bierce... (both Americans, contemporary with eachother, and experienced in the worst SHTF situations of their time.).

"Damn the torpedoes!" (What they used to call mines during the Civil War) and "Nothing matters."

Truth is, as far as people need be concerned, s*** has been hitting the fan at a constant rate since the Toba pot boiled over, 70K ago. And it probably will for another 70K, if we make it that far.

Which means that it's probably a good idea to stock up...

right now...

within reason...

just in case!

Errr... can anyone define "reason"? :scrutiny:

May 13, 2004, 09:13 AM
Errr... can anyone define "reason"?

Leaving enough room for food, water and a place to sleep ;)

You can always prop a laptop on some pallets.

May 13, 2004, 09:34 AM
By the way, and in case anyone wonders about my signature, "Strife is Justice" does not imply "War is Good" (Amazing how much can be lost in the translation.). Rather, it should be read as:

Contrary forces are at the very core of Nature


Opposites must oppose, or S will really HTF.

Newton would have understood. :p

Chip Dixon
May 13, 2004, 10:00 AM
10k is a reasonable stockpile for your sidearm of choice. (along with some common spare parts and toolkit for the gun)

When it comes to AK (or other close range rifle spray gun) ammo, 10k is only a start. You should have much more than that.

10k sounds about right for 12 gauge shotshells, too.

I'd say within reason means you're not endangering the stability of your house by stacking too much weight in any one place.

Can you imagine the value of your ammo stockpile of the S did HTF? Priceless is the word that comes to my mind. I'm sure the psychopaths and looters would choose a different house if they saw me chilling on my roof with a couple AKs and a stack of 30 round mags 10 feet high. If not, having a stockpile would mean having to use a few mags of ammo wouldn't leave me vulnerable. If I only had 1000 or so rounds, that would be a big deal.

Best Regards,

Chip Dixon

May 13, 2004, 10:37 AM
10k is a reasonable stockpile for your sidearm of choice. (along with some common spare parts and toolkit for the gun)

Good point on the spare parts, but I'm not sure what spare parts I should stock...

So, what parts would you all keep on hand for, say, a semi-auto handgun and a 12 GA shotty?



Chip Dixon
May 13, 2004, 11:08 AM
well, that all depends on the gun.

But, I'd say atleast a firing pin, set of sights, a couple sets of springs, extractor, ejector, barrel, and anything else that isn't forged steel except the frame would be prudent. There's plenty of mail-order places on the internet that sell just about everything, and for cheap.

Hell, everything short of another frame is usually a good idea. If you can have an actual backup gun for your sidearm of choice (and corresponding ammo stockpile) that is ideal, along with the spare parts. Make sure you have all the needed vices, small screwdrivers, etc. to disassemble and reassemble your gun correctly.

This is why I suggest buying guns you love in pairs. Then you'll always have the gun, even if you're working on its brother. Besides, it's hard to have just one 1911. :D

May 13, 2004, 11:11 AM
My feeling is that if things go south we will have some warning and I will stock up.

"Some warning" amounts to three possible timeframes:

- Slowly (weeks/months/years; "boiled frog"). ... now why do you think some people here have 10K rounds? are you scoffing or stocking up too?

- Quickly (a few days; "Hurricane Andrew"). and 300,000,000 of your closest friends drop into Wal-Mart for supplies. Store sells out in minutes as everyone goes to "beat the rush" but don't.

- Instantly (no warning; "LA Riots", "The Big One"). ...IF you get the the store, the staff decides maybe they'll hang onto it all for their families.

May 13, 2004, 01:07 PM
but I'm not sure what spare parts I should stock...

One of everything! :D

"Honest, honey, it's not a new gun, it's just my spare parts kit," I said as I ducked.

:cuss: ,she replied.

On ammo, 5K per MBR, 500 to 1K per sidearm, and 200 per hunting rifle.

.22 LR? You can't have too much.


SP - (No, I didn't get the letters backwards, it stands for Shameless Plug.) If you haven't read Lights Out , you should. It will give you an idea of why you should stockpile. If you say, "It's just fiction." A jumbo jet being used as a weapon was fiction in Clancy's Debt of Honor until 9/11!

May 13, 2004, 03:33 PM
Like I said before, I was thinking that the 10k was expressly for SHTF, and then they had a separate plinking, hunting pile.

That seems a bit excessive to me. That would have to be a really extended, nasty situation.

On the other hand, I don't really see what it hurts. Ammo can be stored for a very long time.

1000 rounds once seemed to be a lot of ammo to me. However, ammo is cheaper by the case, and in a fun day of shooting practice you can go through a lot of ammo.

Right now I don't likely have more than 500 - 600 rounds total at home, which means I really need to order more of several different calibers. :)

Maybe that person just likes to collect ammo, and the SHTF stash is just an excuse. Collecting stacks of ammo is no more crazy than many other common hobbies. I mean, at least ammo has a use. What do people do with all those beanie babies?

May 13, 2004, 03:55 PM
I just have a psychological need to have more on hand, for each caliber, (29, to date) and gauge, (6) than I feel I may ever be able to use up, for whatever purpose. I just hate to be caught short. The actual amount depends on the caliber. Natcherly I need more .308, (a few thousand rounds is minimum, and always looking for a good buy on more) than I do .375 H&H or .458 Win Mag.

When my son and I go out for a fun day with the FNFAL and SKSs or AKs, etc. a couple hundred rounds is a moderate plinking session.

But then, I feel the same way about T-bones and venison tenderloin - can't stand to be caught short...

May 13, 2004, 04:08 PM
St. George Tucker, a lawyer and a Revolutionary War militia officer, legal scholar, and later a U.S. District Court Judge said:
"This may be considered as the true paladium of liberty...The right of self-defense is the first law of nature; in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Whenever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annhilated, is on the brink of destruction."

The Real Hawkeye
May 13, 2004, 05:24 PM
WBAL-TV/July 2, 2003

Baltimore -- A late Wednesday afternoon raid in a south Baltimore neighborhood turned up dozens of guns and enough equipment to manufacture more weapons.

Lovell Arthur Wheeler, 60, was arrested and charged on numerous firearms charges Wednesday. Baltimore City police detective Donny Moses said Wheeler was charged with reckless endangerment and numerous firearms and explosives violations. He said additional charges are pending after further analysis of items seized from the house.

WBAL-TV 11 News reporter Jeff Pegues said Tuesday night that police want to know why the man was making so many guns, but one neighbor said Wheeler has ties to Aryan Nation groups and had bragged about starting a race war.

WBAL-TV 11 News I-Team reporter David Collins reported Wednesday that police filled a dump truck with weapons in various stages of assembly. Police seized 14 rifles, eight handguns and more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition, Collins said. Authorities said it is not illegal to make weapons in Maryland.

But investigators are most concerned about 80 pounds of gunpowder they found improperly stored in the man's rowhouse. According to charging documents, the gunpowder was found in bleach bottles, paint thinner cans and antifreeze containers. The documents also stated that if that much gunpowder were to explode, it could possibly destroy the home, neighbors' houses and would cause many casualties.

"One of the officers made a statement saying if there was a war he knows whose house he was coming to for protection," neighbor Carroll Zielinski said.

Wheeler was arrested Tuesday at a plastics products plant where he now works, Collins reported. Detectives said they found six high-velocity rounds in his pocket, matching more than 1,000 others found at his home. Neighbors who live near the home said the man in custody was not shy about talking about his hatred for minorities. But another neighbor says the woman who lives in the home was more concerned about another terrorist attack.

"There was going to be a revolution ... and he was well prepared for it, against anybody that's not white," Zielinski said.

He "talked about complex economic ideas of how the government was messing up and that the economy will crumble and the system will collapse, but it never matched up with a lot of weapons in there," neighbor Erik Sanderson said.

Wheeler is being held on $2 million bond.

May 13, 2004, 05:26 PM
It should be noted that this thread was started 10 months ago, and not only has my attitude changed, but also my number of firearms. I have infinitely increased the percentage of firearms I posess. (IE going from 0 to 4).

Attitudes change. Curuiously, I have more shotshells now than anything else. Damn those ValPaks and their treacherous "buy meee!" siren-esque call...

I still need more AK ammo. only 150rds or so...

May 13, 2004, 05:31 PM
14 rifles, 8 handguns = "dozens of guns"? Must be new math. And oh, wow! more than 1,000 rounds of ammo... (Didn't they look in the second case?)

I have more than this on my basement stairs, before you get to the real stuff.

May 13, 2004, 05:51 PM
I just prefer to buy it while its cheap, cause if it gets restricted it costs lots.

What you need is a good reloading press and bulk bullets and powder too. That way if it is ever restricted you can keep on rolling your own.

Sam Adams
May 13, 2004, 06:10 PM
What do you have an entire closet full of clothes for? What could your wife and daughter possibly need with dozens of pairs of shoes and purses?
I'm still trying to figure that one out myself. :scrutiny: She Who Must Be Obeyed has a penchant for buying non-durables, and She Who Will Be Obeyed By Some Other Poor Sucker In About 20 Years seems to share shoe genes with Imelda Marcos.

Me, I'm into durables - things made of metal, wood and durable plastics (though definitely more of the first 2) which I look forward to handing to my grandkids someday. I somehow doubt that my wife's shoes from 2004 will be anywhere except in some landfill in 2034.

May 13, 2004, 06:32 PM
If you have 50 guns, and 10k rounds, you only have 200 rounds for each, right? Sounds reasonable to me. :)

Sam Adams
May 13, 2004, 06:35 PM
Reasons to have 10K (or some other large number) rounds of ammo:

1) If the SHTF, you can always trade ammo for food, gas, bullion, etc. If that happens, make sure that the tradee doesn't have the gun that shoots that ammo on or near his person, and that you DO have a loaded gun ON your person (yes, Virginia, I remember the gunshop scene from Terminator 1)

2) Cheaper by the boatload; also, as many above pointed out, prices rise over time, and getting bargains (esp. for surplus) is a decent long term investment.

3) It may not be available in the future. Some ammo that I have was already outlawed from importation (steel-cored Chinese 7.62x39), discontinued (Black Talon) or running out (.30-06 AP). Who's to say that we won't get laws like Mexico or many other countries, which virtually prohibit civilians from owning guns that shoot military calibers? Who's to say that some President won't declare a state of emergency and close all of the gun shops, indefinitely? How about a state of emergency where all new ammo production is for military or police use only (as in a war with a very populous enemy like the Chinese)?

3A) For the same reason, I have plenty of components on hand.

4) Being Jewish, I don't intend for myself or anyone in my family to be stuck with nothing, or even with only a few rusty old revolvers or rifles and (literally) a handfull of ammunition, as were the Jews of Europe in my grandparents' day. Nope, this ain't gonna happen, especially not after the Islamofascist bastages lopped off the head of yet another Jew this week, because they'd like to bring some or a lot of that to our shores. They'll only get me when the barrels of my guns melt, and it takes a lot of ammo to make that happen.

5) If the SHTF and you have, say, 1 dozen guns, you are able to give/lend a gun and a plentiful amount of ammo to friends and/or family. While I'd probably do this, the antis among them wouldn't get anything from me except "But I thought that guns weren't good for anything except killing people" or "But what do you NEEEEEEED a gun for?" or "You did everything you could to take this stuff away from me when it was widely available for you to buy, and now you expect me to GIVE it to you?"

6) Its fun to see the :what: look on someone's face when they figure out that you could start a revolution in most South American countries just with what's in one room of your house. :D

Sam Adams
May 13, 2004, 06:41 PM
Only 150 rounds of 7.62x39?!:what:

Get thee to to get 1000 rounds of new production, non-corrosive Russkie HP for $0.07 each.

May 13, 2004, 07:09 PM
I am only a college student. Right now, my car needs my money more.

And besides, I havent been to the range since February. I need to go, but I need to find the time. And start waking up sometime after sunrise, instead of going to sleep at sunrise....

May 13, 2004, 08:12 PM
I'm with Chip Dixon on this one. There is no such thing as too much ammo or other supplies to ensure self-reliance.

I live in bush Alaska. For those of you who aren't familiar with our unique way of life here let me explain. Alaska has over 500,000 sq miles of land. I don't have the numbers on the miles of coast line, but they more than exceed much more than to total of CONUS. Most of the communities in Alaska are remote. The road system up here connects only the major population centers of Anchorage and Fairbanks, the Canadian border, a few communities along the highway and Port of Valdez. The rest of the state is accessable by air only and in some cases also by boat (depending on season and ice conditions). Our capitol in Juneau can only be practically reached by air from the major population centers. There are over 226 communities in the state that range from a few people to a few thousand. All are dependent on air travel for transportation and the shipping of goods and supplies, including fuel for some villages.
Everyonewho lives out here must be very self-reliant to successfully live here. This means having tools, repair parts, know-how, and the ability to plan ahead and shop according to priorities. Additionally you have to keep and maintain a large stock pile of food staples. Meat and fish can be and are harvested from the surrounding when needed.
Now bush Alaska is not on anyones' hit list that I'm aware of. There is nothing of value out here for them. When 9/11 occurred the government shut down all flights to include bush commuters. This action cut off the inflow of all supplies and travel to bush villages. Food, fuel, and mail service were all interupted. During this time hunter were out hunting during the peak of the hunting season with many being flown to remote camps by guides and outfitters. They were stuck for the duration and most had no idea why their guides and pilots didn't return to pick them up on time until the FAA lifted the flight ban. At the time of the ban the govenment didn't even know how long they would suspend the flights. It could have gone much longer and been much worse.
Now to your original question is "Is 10k rounds excessive?" In a word......No! Being self-sufficient is also being free. The ability to be independent of the infrastructure so many find themselves unable to survive without. Freedom= being able to go it on your own.
Curently the greatest threat I face at my present grid coordinates are earthquakes and tsunamies. But who cares? I don't. Can wait out the disaster until things recover enough to start getting supplies in here again......ammo included.
Over the years I've learn to hoard. Hoard fuel, ammo, food, tools, spare parts. I have survival equipment, the means to catch and kill my own meals, a generator. I enjoy living this way and I know I'm dependent on others for very little.

May 13, 2004, 11:31 PM
Well, I know it has been said before.

But, try and change your perception.

For some firearms, 10K is not much ammo at all.

Just think, let's say you have an NFA toy that shoot
900 rounds a min.

That means that 10,000 rounds will last you about 11 mins.
See when you look at it that way 10K rounds ain't all that much.

Or perhaps you wish to become proficient with your pistol. Admirable
if you plan to carry it. Some people believe it takes 3000 repetitions
to gain muscle memory. You can do that much in a month with no sweat.
Now, you should put 200 - 500 per month down range with your
carry weapon to stay proficient.

I think it is easier to comprehend the numbers we are talking about
when you consider just how much you "should" be shooting.

Otherwise, 100 rounds sounds like a lot. Heck, 100 rounds is just
4 medium Uzi mags worth of ammo. See, to my way of thinking
100 rounds is about 2 mins, or less, worth of shooting.

Don't try and "think" about it too much, get out and get "proficient"
and pretty soon 10K rounds will seem about the normal amount to have on hand, even in a nonSHTF scenario.

May 14, 2004, 12:40 AM
I can't get this cartoon image out of my head. Guy finally gets 10,000 rounds for his SHTF weapon of choice, and the S actually does HTF. Guy shoots one warning round to scare off marauding zombies, and his extractor (or whatever) breaks. Guess what the cartoon bubble says...

Along the same line, and more realistically, the same guy runs out of potable water on day 3, or food on day 6, or dozens of other things along the way, because of his focus on acquiring 10,000 rounds, and he hasn't yet been threatened by anyone.

My point, of course, is that the guns and ammo are only a very small part of what you will want and need if bad things start to happen.

May 14, 2004, 01:32 AM
Need 7.62x39? (

:D :D :D

May 14, 2004, 01:50 AM
to echo what stevelyn said

There is only one road which connects the Kenai to Anchorage. A few winters ago there was a bad stretch in which we got something like 14 avalanches within a day or two along this road essentially cutting off all road traffic for a week. We had to fly in our food etc.

Some people were trapped inbetween avalanches and were chartering helicopters to fly em out.

Alaska is a great place :D

May 14, 2004, 08:44 AM
Reference the article on the previous page about Lovell Wheeler:

For those who lost track of the case, after being held without bond for God knows how long (the initial $2 million bond was subsequently revoked) he finally had his day in court... having gotten decent representation. He pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of reckless endangerment and received probation plus time served. Still sucks, but it could have been a lot worse. The man's a bit of a crackpot, and has some pretty unpopular beliefs, but that's no excuse for the way he was treated... the way his rights were trampled. He was back in the news this week - apparently he's suing the government for some millions of dollars for violation of his civil rights. Unfortunately it's 1) tough to fight city hall, and 2) he's representing himself. And you know what they say about being your own lawyer... something about having a fool for a client.

How many of us have what the media would sensationally describe as "an arsenal" like they portrayed this man's collection? Never forget that we're all dangerous crackpots as far as the sheeple are concerned. In some quarters what we believe and what we possess make us enemies of the state. Something to think about...

The Real Hawkeye
May 14, 2004, 09:35 AM
"Well it gets worse actually...

A guy at work, his son is a Maryland State Cop. So his second hand version of the events were like this.

This Mr Wheeler was in fact an old redneck who built black powder rifles and reloaded. He also said some racist things now and then where he lived in black is beautiful Baltimore. A neighbor didn't like him, told all this crap on him and then low and behold Mr Wheeler is off in jail after a raid of his house, shown on TV, (I saw it).

Now the tale is that the cops took his wifes Identification, so she could not get into the jail to visit him. They kept Mr. Wheeler in the jail house for 6 months, without a trial, on the charge of having too much powder... Some do gooder lawyer heard of it and got him out. Now as we understand it Mr. Wheeler is under house arrest in Baltimore, and has NO firearms to protect himself with down in that jungle."

The above quote was cut from another poster at a different site, and are not my words.

May 14, 2004, 12:11 PM
Question is, not what situation would require a 10K stockpile, but rather if you will be around long enough, after the shooting begins, to actually exhaust it. Going through all 200 boxes of 50-count 9MM/.45/.30-06 could possibly mean:

A) I am fending off one or a few veeeeery tenacious adversaries over a relatively long period of time (What do they want that they can't get sooner and with less trouble from someone who DOESN'T have 10K rounds in a SHTF situation?)

B) I am fending off a large contingent over a relatively short period of time (I know it's hopeless, but I still get goosebumps when I think of Davy Crockett)


C) I am fending off different adversaries in brief, intermittent skirmishes over many days, weeks, or months (Shouldn't I have pulled up stakes and hauled a$$ when I still had 1 or 2K and a chance to go where they might last a bit longer?).

Just what you wanted: one more ANAL-ytical take on the subject. :p

Joe Demko
May 14, 2004, 12:29 PM
Accumulating ammunition is fine. 10k rounds doesn't take up too much space, and if you are talking about one of the cheaper surplus calibers, is going to come in at around only $1-1.5k. Even that expenditure can be spaced out by purchasing just a case or two at a time. My only caveat is to remember that there is much more to surviving TSHTF than having ammunition. Gun enthusiasts tend to get a little too wrapped up in the firearms part of the equation, hence my snarky comment re: TSHTF is all about shooting people.

May 14, 2004, 12:40 PM
Gun enthusiasts tend to get a little too wrapped up in the firearms part of the equationTotally agree.

Also gotta learn to eat bugs and siphon water from cacti; train to pull abscessed teeth and amputate gangrenous legs without anesthetics; and condition ourselves and those around us to fight mental stress and emotional breakdown... among other things too many to list.

No Trespassing
May 14, 2004, 12:56 PM
As for a SHTF scenario, you can never have too much ammo, food, water or shelter.

SHTF where I live could be a 8.0 earthquake that destroys freeway overpasses, undergraound water/gas mains, knocks out electricity, etc.

Enough freeways and streets get destroyed then trucks can't bring food into the city and distribute fast enough. Water supplies get cut off for days or weeks, people are gonna panic.

Ammo can be used for seld defense, offense, food gathering and barter.

Plus, I just don't like to run out of ammo. I buy when it's on sale or at shows. I can burn through 1K rounds of .223 and 7.62 in a weekend at Jawbone. I don't want to have to wait until the next show to buy another case.

The Real Hawkeye
May 14, 2004, 02:04 PM
Jeff Cooper is an advocate of the stockpiling of ammo. According to him, you cannot have enough, even of calibers you don't have guns for. His reasoning is that the excess, during an emergency, would become like gold on the open market, so you can trade a brick of .22 lr (or a box of .30-30), for example, for a crate of MREs, or a few jugs of drinkable water.

May 14, 2004, 05:53 PM
I thought somebody had posted after Hawkeye. A newbie. I plead sleep deprivation due to the new baby.

Anyway, the more I read, the more woefully understocked I feel. I've only got about 1500 rounds on hand. :(
I Must buy a reloading press with my tax return.

May 15, 2004, 01:21 AM
More is better. :D

If you had pulled aside a Jewish guy in 1920 and told him that in a few years his government would be doing its best to murder him wholesale he would have probably told you that you were nuts.
I remember reading a book called "Night" about the holocaust. A guy from these peoples' village found out what was going on with the jews and tried to warn his village and no one believed him.

Just because something seems completely ridiculous now doesn't mean that it will seem completely ridiculous ten years from now.
And besides, when I open up a new case of ammo and smell all that brass and copper jacketed lead, I get this warm fuzzy feeling. :D

Just for the record, I don't have 10K of ammo, yet.
Anyone who wants to help can send me as much ammo as they can spare. :D
Trust me, I wouldn't complain.

May 15, 2004, 01:34 AM
A consumable product with a shelf life of 100 years is being sold for less than it costs to manufacture it- (Surplus ammo). Who here has 10,000 rounds of 7.5mm French or .303 British and is wondering what to do with all those cases of ammo? Anyone???

Our stable society is never more than a 15 minute SS-N-18 flight from complete chaos.

May 15, 2004, 02:29 AM
Well to figure out if you have enough TEOTWAWKI ammo ask this, "Do I have enough ammunition to last me the rest of my life?" Something huge happens say next week, asteriod or Yellowstone blows, there will be no new ammunition. Only what you have or reload. There will be no practice anymore, lots of dryfire exercises. You end up shooting to survive, shooting when you need to not just when you want to. Guns become just one of many important tools to keep you and you family alive.

The Real Hawkeye
May 15, 2004, 10:11 AM
Well to figure out if you have enough TEOTWAWKI ammo ask this, "Do I have enough ammunition to last me the rest of my life?" Something huge happens say next week, asteriod or Yellowstone blows, there will be no new ammunition. Only what you have or reload. There will be no practice anymore, lots of dryfire exercises. You end up shooting to survive, shooting when you need to not just when you want to. Guns become just one of many important tools to keep you and you family alive.Yeah, think of the first Americans to travel west of the Mississippi. I'm sure they didn't go plinking for fun. Every round ball of lead was precious to them. It meant another deer to feed their families. I'm sure they tried their best to recover every one of them after a successful hunt. If the supply is cut, there will be no more range sessions where you shoot up 200 rounds for the fun of it.

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