3 choices or other for concealed carry


August 29, 2007, 01:33 PM
Hello everyone. I am a resident of Houston, Texas. The violent crime rate out here is not getting any better. Because of this, and the fact that my kimber cdp compact is to large to carry concealed without a jacket, I am looking for a small 9mm. My first choice is Glock 26 (by a long shot so far), Second is the Kel-Tec P something, and third is the Kahr Pm. The reason behind my choice is reliability, stopping power, price, concealability, and ease of use. Which would you choose and why? For me recoil is not an issue as I am used to .45 acp. So, what would you choose and why? Feel free to present options other than my 3 choices...

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August 29, 2007, 02:06 PM
Rethink your dress as a 4 incher is not that hard to conceal for most people.

Flame Red
August 29, 2007, 02:08 PM
I know this is not what you had in mind, but...

My vote is a S&W J-Frame. I actually use a Colt 357, but other than the 6th shot, same deal. It fits into your pocket and you will always be able to conceal it no matter how you dress. It will always go bang.

August 29, 2007, 02:08 PM
"Small 9mm" and "inexpensive" don't go together. The smallest 9mm for the buck will probably be an XD9 subcompact. The Kel-Tec PF-9 is also very small, but there are mixed reviews on it.

Cost aside, the smallest is the Rohrbaugh P9 (I think that's the model number). Another fairly small one, but more expensive than the ones above, is the Springfield EMP.

M2 Carbine
August 29, 2007, 02:29 PM
Mostly I can't carry my Kimbers either because of what I wear.
I pocket carry a ARMA laser equipped Kel Tec P3AT.
If my pockets were deeper my next choice after the Kimber would be a Crimson Trace laser equipped S&W J Frame.

August 29, 2007, 02:43 PM
so far, my kahr pm9 has been great gun. I usually carry the kahr in the summer as it is a little easier to conceal than my other guns.

I also have a 3" Para "1911", single stack 45. that is pretty easy to conceal also, but if you have issues with a 4" then this one wouldnt be that much different.

Anyway, I really like the kahrs. I also looked at j-framed revolvers, but thought the kahr would be easier to carry, and for me it is easier to shoot (not as much kick).

August 29, 2007, 03:47 PM
Have you looked at an HK P2000sk? I think it is an excellent carry gun. Mine is in .40 S&W and it feels silky smooth when you shoot it. It would feel even easier shooting a 9mm through it.

August 29, 2007, 03:51 PM
1.Glock 26 ( I agree with you, would be my number 1 choice)/ You may also consider the model 27 in .40SW, almost same size).
2. Springfield XD UltraCompact (would be my second choice). (They make it in .40SW as well, so go for it. )
3. Bersa Thunder Ultra Compact. (made in 9mm, .40SW(Under Firestorm brand),and .45ACP).
These would be my top three semi auto choices for ultra ccw cary in 9mm or higher.

August 29, 2007, 04:08 PM
Majic said: Rethink your dress as a 4 incher is not that hard to conceal for most people.

I think I have read before, that part the Texas CCW law has a pretty strict no-printing provision. So even a 4 inch pistol might not be the best choice.

Have you looked at the Taurus Pro pistols? I had the Kel-tec P11, it worked fine but the poor DOA trigger and ultra light weight of it was not for me. Going back to SA pistols.

August 29, 2007, 04:57 PM
I carry either a Glock 26, Kimber Ultra or S&W 642 & 442. J frames in a pocket carry is the most common method for me.

August 29, 2007, 05:43 PM
I carried an XD9SC for awhile, but changed to the Springfield EMP. I have always be partial to the 1911 design, so the EMP just works for me.

August 29, 2007, 05:58 PM
Have you looked at the Kel-Tec PF9? About one pound loaded. .88 inch thick. 7+1 rnds. of 9mm. Under $300................

August 29, 2007, 06:10 PM
I would go with the Glock 26. I carry a Glock 26 or Glock 27 in my Smart Carry holster everyday. I can wear fitted jeans and a fitted shirt and no one even notices it there.

August 29, 2007, 06:16 PM

The smallest 9mm for the buck will probably be a Browning Hi-Power, as it is a single stack


August 29, 2007, 06:28 PM
Elrod....... same thing I was thinking........ Fletcher is that a Type o? cause the browning high power is far from compact and it is a double stack not a single stack thats why the whole thing bout the P35 was the start of the wonder nines with its high capacity double stack magazine and boxy grip etc...

August 29, 2007, 06:29 PM
Sorry about that, wasn't thinking straight. My mistake - edited to fix.

August 29, 2007, 06:33 PM
might want to look at the new walther pps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_PPS

August 29, 2007, 06:34 PM
Of the ones on your list, the G26 would be my pick.

August 29, 2007, 08:02 PM
I'm a huge fan of the Springfield XD line and since recoil is not in the way you have some choices to consider. The subcompact available in .40 and 9mm then you have the compact in .45, 9mm, .40, and .357 sig. but far and large just buy a reputable branded quality gun capable of firing +P rounds if you're decided on the 9mm cartridge. Most major manufacturers do have an offering in this realm. Glock is a great choice and I've never had issue with mine. It comes down to what feels good in your hand, you know what you want, just go shopping and see what feels good in your hand. Carry enough gun, which 9mm often is, and be able to hit what you aim at.

Ragnar Danneskjold
August 29, 2007, 08:26 PM
Easy. Taurus Millennium Pro PT111 9mm.

August 29, 2007, 08:33 PM
I have a Glock 27, which is the .40 cal version of the G26. I bought it because it was the smallest 40 cal I could find at the time. My biggest criticism when carrying was that the double stack magazine made it bulkier and easier to print that a single stack.

At the time I also had (and still do have) a Sig P239 in 40 cal which worked great as a CCW piece. It was a little longer than the Glock but was noticeably thinner. I also have a Sig P245 that is about the same size as the P239 and replaced my P239 as my daily carry piece. This is also a great carry gun.

Then, I came across the Kahr PM40. This became the ideal carry gun for me. It had the thin single stack design I loved in my Sig and is as small as (if not smaller than) my Glock 27. I originally bought the Kahr for "an occasional pocket carry option" but it quickly became my most carried firearm.

I should add that I just bought a Para Ordnance Carry and have carried it that last couple of days. It is also a great single stack carry gun. It's LDA trigger is also very nice.

August 29, 2007, 08:39 PM
Step up to the 40 or 45. Kahr PM40, or wait for the new PM45, XD Subcompact 40, XD 45 Compact 4", Bersa 45 Thunder Ultracompact, S&W CS45, CZ Rami 40, etc.

August 29, 2007, 09:31 PM
Kinda difficult for me to answer this question, as I routinely carried a full-sized 1911 in the Houston area, under a shirt, outside the pants, in a straight-draw holster, up until 2002. When I switched to a full-sized Glock G22 as a duty pistol in 2002, I found the shirt sometimes inadequate, and started using a vest most of the time. In 2004, I switched to a SIG, and the vest became unnecessary, and a shirt again adequate. Textured fabric is the key, such as Patagonia AC cotton. There is no reason to let the heat be a reason to switch from a 1911. BTW, Glocks are FAT, and have that huge rear protruding rear portion of the slide. A Baby Glock is harder to hide than a full-sized 1911 in a canted rig, in my opinion. (I used a G27 for a while, during the period I carried a G22 as a duty pistol.) BTW, I am back to wanting to carry the 1911 on my own time, having solved a problem of my skinny hands not depressing the grip safety far enough. This is good, as the 1911 is great for hot weather carry.

August 29, 2007, 09:36 PM
To play the game, however, the G26 is a good choice. Stay AWAY from anything Kel-tec, unless "merely adequate" is good enough. If you get PM9, and it malfs, Kahr is really good about making it right. Based on what others have said multiple times, avoid the PM40.

August 29, 2007, 09:50 PM
I have a G26 and ,
A Glock sport holster
A Nemisis Pocket holster
A Predator IWB holster
A Galco Ankle holster
extra mags

Line Rider
August 29, 2007, 11:00 PM
The summer heat in Alabama will be with us until October. My summer carry gun is a Glock 19 with 125 gr. Cor-Bon. My hostler of choice is a Milt Sparks Summer Special 2.

August 30, 2007, 12:39 AM
S&W 3913 , can handle +P , I have mine stoked with Ranger SXT 127gr +P+ during the summer months or when carrying my M&P40 would be a bit much .

August 30, 2007, 02:10 PM
For the last 3 years now, I have carried a Kel-tek P11 using the belt clip. I find it extremely easy to conceal and yet it carries 11 rds. of 9mm (10+1). The long DA trigger is reminesant of a DA revolver. It has just enough weight to make it controllable when firing. Mine has over 3000 rounds through it without a failure. Check into it.

August 31, 2007, 08:38 AM
From a personal standpoint, I cannot recommed a Keltec PF-9. Yes, I had one, brand new and found Keltec to "test by warranty" . They had put another model's barrel in mine that had shown problems, let it go out of the factory and it failed miserably. Sure, it was covered under warranty, but I should not have to test their products for them, cover the expense of shipping, have downtime on a gun that is suppose to defend my life and then cross my fingers everytime I shoot it. Sorry, no more Keltecs for me. I went and got a Kahr and have not had one problem with it. "Cheap ain't good, and good ain't cheap!"

August 31, 2007, 03:34 PM
thanks guys! after looking at the 26 it is only marginally thicker than a ppk. i think i'll go with that...

August 31, 2007, 04:10 PM
Given your parameters I would choose a S&W 642 or 442.

Here's how I would rank my choices:

Glock 26 (it's really like carrying a brick)
All Others

August 31, 2007, 05:19 PM
Glock 27 shoots almost as well as my sig 229. I carry it in an uncle Mike's iwb or a fobus

August 31, 2007, 05:26 PM
Got to go with reliability for self defense.....S&W J-frame 642/442/637/36/638/649 will do just fine... Semi Autos, I find the 15oz or lighter pistols are not reliable enough for self defense.. The Glock 26/27 is very reliable and at 19oz unloaded would be my pick for all day every day conceal carry...

Mat, not doormat
September 1, 2007, 02:11 AM
Out of your list, the Kel-Tec PF9 seems like the obvious choice. Slim as all get out. As with any gun, test it before you carry it. I've had several keltecs, and shot a buch more, and never really had any probs with them. Others have different results. Test it first, is all.

As far as kahr vs. kel-tec, I've heard just as much mixed about kahr.


September 1, 2007, 07:48 PM
My always gun is a S&W 642. I know you didn't ask about revolvers, but it's a really nice package that fits so well in the pocket.

The CZ RAMI and the new Walther PPS might be worth looking into as well. I don't have a RAMI (yet) but love my 75b.


September 2, 2007, 05:10 AM
The G26 would be my first choice. It will hold up a lot longer than the other two. Another consideration may be a Springfield XD Subcompact.

September 4, 2007, 03:29 AM
Taurus PT111 would be a better choice then the G26 IMO

Ala Dan
September 4, 2007, 03:35 AM
Rethink your dress code, as others have suggested. With that, add a KEL-TEC
PF-9; and you should be OK; provided of course that you do your part, if it
becomes necessary~! :eek:;):D

September 4, 2007, 08:29 AM
Glock 26 gets near .357 ballistics with 125 grain bullets. 1200 fps.

I'd consider the 27 with 135 grain bullets, instead, or 155 grain bullets.

I think you can convert the 27 to 9mm with a barrel swap, but, don't think you can go the other way, might check.

Also, the Glock 33 in .357 Sig would be better, for heavier bullets. The 125's are marginal on penetration, as are most 9mm loads.

S esq.

PS A glock 30 would be my first choice. And, the 29 is nice. If you consider a snub, the Model 60 S&w with a 3" barrel is a good choice, except for the :cuss: lock.

September 4, 2007, 06:21 PM

Yeah I know....
But get one anyway as a "backup to your primary backup" and you'll wind up cc this little sucker more often than not.. 7rds of 32cal Speer Gold Dots at your service, almost anytime, anyplace..

Identical pistol in 380cal if you so desire.. (But pricy and difficult to obtain.)

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy

September 5, 2007, 05:39 PM
If you like the G26, go with it.

My wife has a G26 with Trijicons, and loves it. It is rated for +P and +P+, and it also works with 15-round G19 mags, 17-round G17 mags, etc., giving you the option of having 15+1 when the weather is cool enough to conceal the full-length magazines, and 10+1 when you need the stubby 10-rounder for better concealment. If you carry a magazine holder on the off side, they can be 15's.

Here's my wife's G26 with a 15-round G19 magazine:


You can see the G19 magazine protrudes a bit (same length as a G19 grip). The G26 10-rounder fits flush with the bottom of the grip.

September 7, 2007, 03:24 PM
G26 - great gun, my choice after the G19
Kel-Tec - terrible trigger
Kahr PM9 - not reliable

Just my opinion

September 7, 2007, 04:00 PM
Feel free to present options other than my 3 choices...
What about a Walter PPS (http://www.carl-walther.info/dev2/index.php?company=walthercompany=walther&lang=DE&content=products&hid=2&uid=5&product=846&change_lang=true&language_code=en)?
It's perfect single stack carry gun. But it's quite expensive here in good old europe. It cost 630 incl. tax approx. US$860
But maybe it's cheaper in the US.

September 7, 2007, 05:39 PM
Of your three, I'd probably pick the G26. Good manufacturer, a history of reliability.
As far as suggestions - changing your clothes selection's one possibility. Changing your holster setup might help. IWB would reduce problems with the gun hanging below the jacket line and such. Shoulder rigs are a possibility... but take a lot of adjustments to make 'em right.

Sir Aardvark
September 7, 2007, 07:02 PM
Here is what I carry - In California I am allowed to carry only 3 listed and "approved" handguns:

SIG 229 .40S&W - I love SIGS!!! There is no reason why I would not carry one. I carry it in a Milt Spark Versa Max II.

Glock 30 .45ACP - It is difficult to argue with something that is about the size of my hand and holds 10 rounds of .45ACP, and the price was right, too.

S&W 340PD .38/.357MAG - everyone needs a "pocket-gun" for when a higher level of comfort or concealment is necessary. I think it is silly to not have one of these, or something similar, for those occasions when one is necessary.

September 7, 2007, 09:08 PM
+1 on the Kahr. The only complaint I have about carrying one is that the slide release lever has some sharp edges. Nothing a Dremel can't fix though.

September 7, 2007, 09:18 PM
Sub-compact XD-9 or Glock 26 are in another league as the kel-tec and kahr..

September 7, 2007, 09:59 PM
True. The XD and Glock are bricks. :)

For pocket carry, the Kahr or the Kel-Tec are workable, and IMHO, better than a j-frame. Can't speak as much to the PF9 (looked at it) but the PM9 (carry it every day) is smaller than a j-frame, holds two more rounds, reloads right now and is much easier to shoot well (again IME).

I've owned a couple Glocks but even the shorties are fat. "Concealable" and "double stack" are mutually exclusive in my experience. Do people do it? Sure they do. I cannot, either comfortably or effectively, conceal a double-stack anything, either IWB, pocket, SmartCarry, etc. I can conceal a Glock when I can wear a coat. Around here, that may be all of 30 days per year...

September 7, 2007, 11:23 PM
I find a J frame about ideal for pocket carry. I find that the J frame prints less than a semi-auto. The cylinder bulge seems to break up the outline, so while someone might see you have something in your pocket, they can't tell what. Many semi-autos are rather blocky, and print badly, even in a pocket holster.
Also, my S&W model 337 J frame will fire even when packed full of pocket lint, not something I can say about many compact semi-autos.

September 8, 2007, 12:57 AM
+1 Taurus PT111 Mil Pro or supersize it for $.99 and get the PT145!! Here's a video of me shooting one...I forgot that I already racked on in between telling my Father in law how to work the camera.

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p38/jpwilly/th_ShootingRange3-11-07011.jpg (http://s124.photobucket.com/albums/p38/jpwilly/?action=view&current=ShootingRange3-11-07011.flv)

September 8, 2007, 02:03 AM
I don't see what the problem is here. You already have a compact 1911 as it is, which in size comparisons is about the size of a Glock 19, Sig 229, and other compacts as it is. I'd stick with what you have as anything else sacrifices width and concealability and would be a step in the wrong direction I believe. Also don't trade off a .45 compact for a Kel-tec anything or especially the mouse guns some here have suggested. Save your money, buy another shirt and keep the 1911.:(

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