1911 vs. Sig vs. glock vs. HK reliability


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mavracer
August 29, 2007, 09:42 PM
OK I don't want to start a brand war,I don't care what brands you think are reliable.I want to know if a make/modle that has a reputation for reliability would make you trust it after say 20% of the rounds you would normaly use.
The reason I ask, just got a surplus HK p7psp monday went to the range and put ~100 rounds through it 100% no failure, and I pretty much feal I could trust it.I don't think I would do this with say a kel-tec not to say they're bad but they have a reputation for needing a fluff and buff to run.please don't flame me I know some of them are 100% and I know all makes have a bad one now and again.just wondering your opinions.
Thanks in advance.

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surjimmy
August 29, 2007, 11:22 PM
I'm a 1911 fan (big time) with that said IMHO I think H&K make about the best gun out there. I have never shot a P7 just the USP's, but if it say's H&K I would trust it. On the other hand I don't think 100 rounds is enough to make a sound judgement for self defence.

PPGMD
August 29, 2007, 11:32 PM
I believe in breaking in a gun, so I would put at least 200 rounds through a gun before I would consider carrying it.

Anyways it really depends on the brand of the 1911, but there are few that I would out of the box, I would want to break it in.

The one 1911 that I would consider the best out of the box would be the Sig GSR and a few of the cheaper brands. Most of the more expensive brands are more match grade oriented and are really tight out of the box.

Also only Hk and Glock would I even remotely consider carrying out of the box.

10-Ring
August 30, 2007, 12:22 AM
I bought a SIG based on reputation only & was very disappointed :( OTOH, every HK I have picked up, new or used, steel or poly has been a great all around firearm.
As for 1911's -- I have owned a few over the years & currently have 2. I am a fan of this platform for its inherent versatility, accuracy & ergos and I do carry my commander sized version from time to time.

Autolycus
August 30, 2007, 02:12 AM
I trust HK more than any other guns. I feel they definately make it worthwhile. With a 1911 it would have to be quite a few rounds. But if it is an HK or Sig (except for the GSR) I would trust it without any hesitation.

finalcut
August 30, 2007, 02:18 AM
I trust my HK, and I trust the brand.
My HK USPc now has a couple thousand through it with out a single quirk.

I won't put a gun in to service until I have 1,000 through it without malfunctions - my HK is good to go as well as my two XDs.

By way of contrast - the Wilson I had was a POS....

My favorite pistol to date is HK, but my most loved type of pistol is 1911. I think that's why I love the USPc so much - it's as close to a poly 1911 as you could get if there were such a thing.

TnShooter83
August 30, 2007, 03:44 AM
If it is a well known brand, and after about 200 rounds.
I'll visually inspect it for wear/malfunctions...ect.

Then it's ok in my book.

mavracer
August 30, 2007, 07:23 AM
I believe in breaking in a gun, so I would put at least 200 rounds through a gun before I would consider carrying it.
that also went into my thought prossess, the p7psp is a used police trade in I'm sure its fired a few already.

MASTEROFMALICE
August 30, 2007, 07:41 AM
Mmy original HK USP 40 full-size had extraction problems to the point I had to send it back. It wouldn't feed 50 rounds without some type of failure.

The USP that replaced it has had 2500 rounds with no problems.

My wife has a Sig P220 which has NEVER even considered failing.

My Kimber initially had problems with feeding. A trip back to the factory and no failures in thousands of rounds since.

The moral of this story? Reputation alone is NEVER EVER enough to bet your life on.

fletcher
August 30, 2007, 07:47 AM
Not quite sure if I understand the first poll answer.

If the gun can make it through 100 rounds without a failure, that's not too bad. If it can make it through 500 with none (even with one), I'll trust it completely.

I never had a malfunction with my old 1911 (SA GI) over 500 rounds or so. I had one malfunction (FTE - extractor did not catch) with the USP 45 with about the same round count. I trusted both. For a new purchase, I trust it until it proves otherwise.

mavracer
August 30, 2007, 09:41 AM
Not quite sure if I understand the first poll answer.
sorry basically I wanted to Know if you got a gun that has a reputation of being 100% out of the box would you trust it sooner.the 20% is because there are differing opinions on # of rounds before you'll carry it. mine is ~500 so the 100 I put through my HK =20%.I also take into concideration the likely hood of my needing my CC in the next month when I'll have 500 rounds through it are ~nil

Daemon688
August 30, 2007, 10:41 AM
Well, I've put probably 2500+ rounds through my Sig without a hiccup. I've put 500 rounds through my Sig in one sitting without a hiccup. I trust my life with that gun 100%. My P3AT on the other hand, I've put about 600 rounds through it. The most I've fired in a single sitting was 200 rounds. I've had a handful of failure to feeds and one light primer strike. The gun has functioned 100% for the first 50 rounds but the closer you get to that 100 mark the more malfunctions you get.

Do I trust the Kel-Tec as much as the Sig? Not a chance, even if I've never had a problem under 50 rounds. Murphy's law and all.

BeJaRa
August 30, 2007, 10:54 AM
Personally I don't care who made it, I would put a couple hundred rounds of various ammo types thru any firearm before I would carry it or use it as a HD gun. Most manufactures make a good product, but all of them have some crap guns come out of the factory on occasion.

Gila Jorge
August 30, 2007, 11:17 AM
I trust my Les Baer 1911 45acp ... go with quality and shoot it...then
rely upon it... every make has problems from time to time... there are no
magic bullets....

PPGMD
August 30, 2007, 02:09 PM
that also went into my thought prossess, the p7psp is a used police trade in I'm sure its fired a few already.

Used guns I do the break in not to break the pistol in, but to make sure I didn't inherit someone's problem pistol.

One guy at the local range has a PT-911, first the pistol went full auto (personally that's a feature IMO), he returned it to the factory for service (unregistered machine gun), they fixed it, but them he had another problem (don't remember what), it came back, and finally the sights were off, he got the sights fixed and sold it.

That's why I would break in even a used pistol, and custom shop work. You got to make sure the weapon works before you trust your life on it.

BamBam-31
August 30, 2007, 02:33 PM
Glock reliability is legendary. Like an AK. That said, it's still a mechanical device and therefore always vulnerable to the possibility of failure. Tap, rack, bang.

Of the platforms you've mentioned, I'd say Sigs, HK's, and Glocks, NIB, should have excellent reliability records. There is, however, a wide spectrum of "1911's" out there, and unfortunately, lots of companies have taken to cutting corners with lower end models. It's a GREAT platform--just don't be surprised or disappointed if your particular example might need a bit of work at first to get it 100%.

CountGlockula
August 30, 2007, 02:36 PM
My Glock is super reliable since the very first shot.

mavracer
August 30, 2007, 02:40 PM
Of the platforms you've mentioned, I'd say Sigs, HK's, and Glocks, NIB, should have excellent reliability records
My Glock is super reliable since the very first shot
did you guys read the question?

BamBam-31
August 30, 2007, 02:46 PM
Yes. It's poorly written.

Sorry if I didn't address the round count part of your initial question. Is that your main concern? If so, 100-200 rounds is but a good day's practice. Enough to tell if a gun's sighted in properly, enough to tell if I'll like it or not. Enough to prove reliability of a particular model? Not really.

CountGlockula
August 30, 2007, 03:22 PM
I thought the question was trusting your gun after a few shots?

Then yes, I trust my Glock.

mavracer
August 30, 2007, 03:30 PM
I don't care what brands you think are reliable
Yes I understand the poll question is not real clear.but I'm pretty sure this statement in my first post is clear.
thanks for your input as to round count.yes I have only shot the pistol in question one day and I shot ~200 rounds through 4 guns.yes I will shoot it more before it gets carried dountown,but for now I'm pretty sure its a keeper.

1BLINDREF
August 30, 2007, 03:54 PM
I put 300-400 rounds through any gun before I trust my life with it - I don't care what brand or what type, wheelie or bottom feeder.
Any mechanical object, no matter how good the reputation or how much it costs, can be a lemon -
even Hks :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

CountGlockula
August 30, 2007, 04:37 PM
Interesting. I've shot 5K+ out of my "gun" and no issues yet...I think I'm still in my breaking in period. Especially shooting 400 round nonstop in one session.

Silvanus
August 30, 2007, 04:59 PM
There are some brands that I would trust out of the box without extensive testing. Glock and H&K for example. A couple of mags to ensure it's not a "lemon" would be enough in that case.

STAGE 2
August 30, 2007, 05:07 PM
Anything man made is capable of breaking. Every manufacturer is capable of a lemon.

Some brands are more likely than others to produce great pistols, but if I'm going to carry it, its got to pass MY test.

mballai
August 30, 2007, 06:00 PM
I consider 500 rounds to test a gun's basic reliability sufficient.

jrfoxx
August 31, 2007, 05:15 AM
Each and every individual gun is just that, individual.ANY gun could be the 1 bad one out of the 3 gazillion flawless ones made by a company that everyone raves about....
Reputation has ZERO to do with a gun being reliable or not.It will either work correctly a satisfactory percent of the time (whatever you decide is acceptabe for you) or it wont, and putting ammo thru it it the ONLY way you'll ever get ANY idea of that individual guns reliablity.
Neither Gaston Glock's, nor J.M. Browning's reputation can fix a broken/defetive gun, nor can It bring me or a loved one back from the dead if it malfunctions because I trusted reputation instead of actual testing.

rbert0005
August 31, 2007, 08:02 AM
Maybe someone else did the fluff and buff job on yours for you.

Bob

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