(NJ) Armed teenagers stopped by police. Report from FoxNews


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Deadman
July 6, 2003, 06:55 PM
Just saw a report on the Rita Cosby show on Fox News which detailed police arresting three teenagers armed and with the intent to shoot as many people as they could at specific locations.

According to the police, the teenagers tried to carjack someone, the driver managed to flee the scene and contact a passing patrol car. The teenagers where then arrested shortly afterward.

The inital investigation has found that the teenagers had some sort of list of who they wanted to target. And the planning had taken 5 or so months.

Weapons included a pump shotgun of some sort, 30-30 lever rifle, and some sort of semi-auto, maybe a Mini14. They also had a .22 pistol and a revolver. Along with 2000 rounds apparently, some of which were saboted 30-30 rounds.


So as far as I'm concerned thank God they were prevented from conducting some sort of Columbine event.

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Mastrogiacomo
July 6, 2003, 07:07 PM
Doesn't sound like carjacking was all they had in mind...thank God they were stopped.

cpileri
July 6, 2003, 07:24 PM
Let's see:
"Weapons included a pump shotgun of some sort, 30-30 lever rifle, and some sort of semi-auto, maybe a Mini14. They also had a .22 pistol and a revolver. Along with 2000 rounds apparently, some of which were saboted 30-30 rounds."

what did we have here:
a pump action,
a shotgun,
a cowboy caliber,
a lever action,
a semi-auto rifle- with detachable magazine,
a 22,
a semi-auto handgun,
and
a revolver

also included were over 1000 rounds of ammo and a device capable of allowing high-powered rifle rounds subvert the ballistic fingerprinting process!

My, my. It just so happens to be a one-stop snapshot of ALL the items needing a renewal and a proposed ban! How about that.

What would reeeeeeeeally suprise me would be if we saw more and more events like this closer and closer to the AWB expire date.
Yup, I'd be absolutely flabbergasted.

Things that make you go, "hmmmmmmmmmmmm..."

(p.s. I too am glad no one was hurt or killed, and mostly do not doubt that this was a 'sincere' crime in progress and not a staged political stunt. But I couldn't help pointing out...)
____________________________________________________
Scarecrow: “That’s the trouble; I can’t make up my mind. I haven’t got a brain.”

Dorothy: “Well, how can you talk if you haven’t got a brain?”

Scarecrow: “I don’t know. But some people without brains do an awful lot of talking.”

P95Carry
July 6, 2003, 08:04 PM
If this was an avoided carnage then I am well relieved but ....... cpileri ........ I do also share with you some of that cynicism!!

HBK
July 6, 2003, 08:53 PM
I'm glad the incident was avoided. However, I share the concern that as the time to vote on bills concerning a ban on certain firearms nears, we are going to see an increasing amount of news coverage in which the perpetrators are armed with whatever guns the antis deems need to be banned.

Standing Wolf
July 6, 2003, 09:33 PM
Leftists are moral and intellectual parasites—and shameless carrion feeders into the bargain.

cpileri
July 6, 2003, 09:58 PM
Glad I'm not the only one, at least.
C-

sm
July 6, 2003, 10:15 PM
Glad the teens apprehended and nobody got hurt. I can appreciate the cynicism.

I'm against gun laws. What do I see?Underage so they aquired firearms from somewhere, and ammo. So its not the guns , but someone either didn't enforce existing laws( undrage sales) or follow up a robbery. IIRC NJ, people cannot CCW to protect themselves from situations like this.

It's not the guns. What if the teens break in and steal matches and gasoline to do arson...existing law ,if not enforced, will still cause injury, death, destruction.

politics and sheeple...I swear. Pass another law to prevent firearms when the BG's will get and the GG can't defend themselves....matches next?

Majic
July 6, 2003, 10:25 PM
My question is whether the teens were caught with the weapons with them? Kinda hard to walk around with 3 long guns without bringing attention to yourself in a place like NJ.

Tamara
July 6, 2003, 10:32 PM
Good thing there's no CCW in the PRNJ! Imagine the carnage that could've happened if there was!

Deadman
July 7, 2003, 07:08 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,91186,00.html




My question is whether the teens were caught with the weapons with them? Kinda hard to walk around with 3 long guns without bringing attention to yourself in a place like NJ

The teenagers involved did have the weapons with them at the time of the arrest, and as far as I know this occured in the early hours of the morning.

Mark Tyson
July 7, 2003, 08:16 AM
Teens arrested with guns, swords, sacks of ammo

Monday, July 7, 2003 Posted: 4:33 AM EDT (0833 GMT)

New Jersey police say three teens arrested with a cache of guns, knives and swords planned attacks on people they considered enemies.

WFTX's Christian Farr reports (July 7)

===================================

OAKLYN, New Jersey (CNN) -- Three teenagers have been charged in an alleged plan to execute three people and then go on a shooting spree, armed with rifles, handguns, swords and more than 2,000 rounds of ammunition, police and the prosecutor's office said.

The teens -- Matthew Lovett, 18, and two unidentified youths, ages 14 and 15 -- were arrested at 3:48 a.m. Sunday, Oaklyn Police Chief Chris Ferrari said, after the driver of a vehicle they allegedly tried to carjack managed to drive off and alert police. Police rushed to the scene and found the teens. No shots were fired in their apprehension, authorities said.

Ferrari said the teens had strapped rifles and shotguns to their backs and tucked handguns in their waistbands. They were carrying three-foot swords and knives along with satchels of ammunition, he said.

Camden County prosecutor Vincent Sarubbi said it appears all the weapons came from Lovett's home -- belonging to his father. Sarubbi said an initial check shows the firearms were legally obtained and were properly registered.

"They had developed this plan where they were gong to execute three individuals in Oaklyn that they had identified and then continue on through the evening until they ran out of ammunition in a series of random killings throughout the town," Sarubbi said, who called the 18-year-old "the shaker and the mover" of the plan.

"This could have been a potentially horrendous situation where many lives could have been jeopardized."

There were no injuries, Ferrari said. "Thankfully we were able to thwart it before anyone got hurt."

Oaklyn is a suburb of Philadelphia.

Lovett was being held Sunday night at the Camden County Correctional Facility and the others, both minors, were being held at the juvenile detention center.

"The 18-year-old has been charged with aggravated assault. He's also been charged with possession of a firearm for an unlawful purpose ... and he's also been charged with carjacking," said Sarubbi. "The two juveniles have been charged with carjacking and possession of a weapon for an unlawful purpose."

"We are preparing charges for all three for conspiracy to commit murder," the prosecutor said.

The teens went to two area high schools, Collingswood and Haddon Heights, Ferrari said. Lovett was a recent graduate of one of the schools, he said.

MicroBalrog
July 7, 2003, 08:24 AM
What were the swords for?

TheOtherOne
July 7, 2003, 08:28 AM
One crossed the street in front of him, opened his coat to reveal a handgun, then signaled for his friends. Rich said he drove around them, then notified police.Good thing those punks went after him instead of me. If someone tried to carjack me, I'm not going to give them the courtesy of driving around -- more like straight into with the pedal to the floor!

Triad
July 7, 2003, 08:29 AM
I'd guess they thought having swords made them ninjas.

Snowdog
July 7, 2003, 08:54 AM
Not to blow snotwads in anyone's coffee, but I sincerely doubt any increase of such criminal activity would have any correlation whatsoever with the approaching sunset of the AWB. Perhaps the depth and duration of coverage, but not the actual crime in and of itself.

Unless the gun-grabbers/media are in possession of a clandestine mind-control device to precipitate violent actions involving "assault weapons" to facilitate their agenda, I believe unfortunate events such as this will continue to occur randomly as they always have.

However, will the media coverage of such events be manifested with increased intensity and repetition whenever it serves them and their political overlords? You bet!

mete
July 7, 2003, 09:02 AM
I was suprised that one radio report said that all the guns were legal and owned by the youngsters father. Probably just one more case of parents being too involved with their own lives to pay any attention to the kid. That problem showed up at Columbine any many other cases.

Moparmike
July 7, 2003, 09:04 AM
Or vikings. Nothing makes a knave tremble more than a broadsword.

Bruce in West Oz
July 7, 2003, 09:11 AM
This incident is already headline news here and being used as justification for even tighter gun restrictions.

shermacman
July 7, 2003, 10:29 AM
Yup, more gun control laws could have prevented this! Although it is odd that fully licensed, registered and permitted adults would have acted this way....



:barf:

geekWithA.45
July 7, 2003, 11:10 AM
NJ is one of the most restrictive states in the nation with respect to firearms and just about anything else that can be considered a weapon.

Yep. Gun control works. Right.


Bruce in West OZ: lemme get this straight: The _Australians_ are using this as propaganda fodder?


This all went down a few towns away from were I live now, in my old stomping grounds. Oaklyn NJ isn't a suburb of PHL, (Oaklyn PA is, though, nice fact checking, dimwits) it's the next town over from Collingswood, where these cretins hailed from.

We either got really, really lucky, or it's too pat, and I smell a rat. Haven't decided which yet, not enough info to go on.

BTW, dontcha think if you came home, found your gunlocker empty and your kid missing you'd be a bit concerned?

El Rojo
July 7, 2003, 11:19 AM
I don't understand how people that are fully armed and ready to battle it out to the death just get arrested without incident. You would think they would just shoot it out with the cops too. Yet somehow they give up and no shots are fired. I guess these kids are just cowards and lost their mettle when they were looking down the business end of a gun themselves. I guess that is a good thing.

geekWithA.45
July 7, 2003, 11:28 AM
I guess these kids are just cowards and lost their mettle


Actually, it sounds like the botched the carjacking too, so my guess is that somewhere along the line, they confronted the reality of hurting people and at _some_ level decided not to cross the line, even before the cops got there.

Bartholomew Roberts
July 7, 2003, 11:37 AM
Saw it on the morning TV broadcast. It appears the evil vicious assault weapons of choice were:

1) An SKS (wood furniture, fixed 10rd mag)
2) A 1903 Springfield
3) A Ruger 10/22


There was also some other weapons I didn't get a positive ID on - might have been a Garand and a shotgun.

El Rojo
July 7, 2003, 11:48 AM
Now it is clear, we have rid society of those evil asault weapons, but look at all of these guns that are still accessible to 18 year old children. We need to ban them too. Lets keep banning until we ban everything. 1984. Brave New World.

Hank Zudd
July 7, 2003, 11:57 AM
Hell where we live El, it's just about there. Allz we needs is some gang bangers to shoot some innocents & they'll sic the airport securtiy to go thru our house & take our box cuttes, siccors, tweezers & other banned items along with the last of our DOJ approved guns. (wonder why Kali is in such the #hit's budget wise?) what were the handguns these no-guts punks stole?

BAB
July 7, 2003, 12:13 PM
Can anyone tell me what kind of ammo this is? I've never seen anything quite like it. This was apparently seized from the kids.

Edit: I can't seem to get the image attached. The picture is one I found on the Fox News website at: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,91186,00.html

The images are to the right near the upper part of the page.

Nathaniel Firethorn
July 7, 2003, 12:15 PM
My, my. It just so happens to be a one-stop snapshot of ALL the items needing a renewal and a proposed ban! How about that.I'm sure it'll be up for a vote in the PRNJ Assembly next week. It'll be something to distract the proles from all the indictments.

I think they had a revolver, too. That would complete the Democrats' agenda nicely, just in time for the "election."

- pdmoderator

(P.S. What the heck is a saboted 30-30?)

Preacherman
July 7, 2003, 12:18 PM
I've merged 2 threads on the same topic, combining the thread titled "Teens arrested with guns, swords, sacks of ammo" with this one.

Nathaniel Firethorn
July 7, 2003, 12:27 PM
I was suprised that one radio report said that all the guns were legal and owned by the youngsters father. Probably just one more case of parents being too involved with their own lives to pay any attention to the kid. That problem showed up at Columbine any many other cases.This could not be. To say otherwise would imply that people are responsible for their own actions, and those of their own children, which we know is a fantasy of the vast right-wing conspiracy. The guns must have exerted their evil mind control on these poor vulnerable youts.

- pdmoderator

Gusgus
July 7, 2003, 12:44 PM
THIS HAPPENED IN MY BACKYARD!

Right now I'm really pissed, so try to bear with me. We're five blocks from where this went down. My youngest daughter's boyfriend fought with this coward all through HS, so he may have been on the "kill" list, though we don't have any verification. My wife and I where shopping at a 7-11 right about the time these creeps where arrested. They where only a couple blocks away at the time. Thankfully, my daughter was home, sick in bed, and not out with her boyfriend.

Keep in mind, that my wife and daughter are both highly trained in the use of firearms. But you see, we're law abiding citizens. We don't break the laws of the land. That's what makes us the "good" guys. In other words, we where defenseless, unarmed sitting ducks, with our firearms safely locked away at home.

The more I think about the "could ofs", the angrier I get. Who are these A-holes in Trenton that willingly and deliberately put my loved ones at risk!?

For the past 6 months, I've slowly been putting things in order, with plans of moving to PA, where they trust their citizens with the right of self defense. Hopefully this will now put us on the fast track.

geekWithA.45
July 7, 2003, 01:37 PM
From CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/07/07/teens.arrested/index.html)

(Lovett is the cretin's dad)



"He's never fired a gun, and I don't think he would know what ammunition to put in what chamber ...," Lovett said. "I've never trained him. I never had time to take him out to shoot, and he was just never interested in guns, and I was glad that he wasn't."

Lovett said he kept handguns in a locked box and rifles in a closet. Most of the ammunition was more than 20 years old, he said, left over from days when he used to practice target shooting. He said the large quantity of ammunition police reported finding most likely came from 500-round packs of .22-caliber target bullets.

Sadly, I'm afraid this is typical of the NJ gunowner.

So, now we're gonna see all sorts of legislation proposing mandatory storage in vault class safes, blah blah blah.

It's also sad that this will be used as an example of the 100% efficiency of police protection, despite the fact that the arrests came about largely as a matter of complete crap luck.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
GusGus:

You and I share the same orientation vis a vis being law abiding, and the same anger at it's result. The state of NJ holds it's citizens in contempt, and I'm sick to death of it.

Unfortunately, the Trentonians will never see that they place us at risk, unless we tell them.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

The thing about democracy is that it only works for the folks who show up, and NJ gunowners have been sleeping at the stick (or slipping across the river to the U.S of A) for too long.

New Jerseyans: It's time to take back our state.

http://www.njcsd.org

"The New Jersey Coalition For Self Defense.
Defending The Right To Defend Yourself"

Sheslinger
July 7, 2003, 02:10 PM
There are already statements that videos and internet are at fault. Police seized 4 computers from Lovett's house.

Lemme see - who else can we blame for our lack of paying attention to our children?

Sheslinger

agricola
July 7, 2003, 02:43 PM
youse should give the main kid's dad some slack - reading the latest Fox article it states that he was a single parent (the lads mum died nine years ago) and one of his brothers is disabled - presumably the man has to work as well.

axeman_g
July 7, 2003, 03:47 PM
I am originally from that area of NJ. My wife grew up in Oaklynn and went to the school these idiots where targeting. These kids are going to never fully realize what they where about to attempt to do. The eldest sounds like the ringleader and the one needing the most help. The young ones where probably scared of him. This is just so sad ... stupid poor kids.

2dogs
July 7, 2003, 04:01 PM
And the planning had taken 5 or so months

Good thing they didn't take six months- they might have actually caused some damage.

From the interview with the father it appears that this was one dopey kid and two dopey friends- not the Columbine psycho killer type- anyway it's good that it turned out the way it did with no one hurt.

It's times like these I'm glad I don't have kids- those things are dangerous.:eek:

Waitone
July 7, 2003, 04:11 PM
Obviously the media has it wrong. Couldn't happen in a state with such stellar gun control legislation. Legislation after all is designed to inhibit the lawless, right?

Factors to be looked for:
1--Detached parent(s)
2--Movie obsessions
3--Video game obsessions
4--Psycho-active drugs of some kind.


I'll bet on 4, 1, 2, 3 in that order.

Looked at from a strictly public relations standpoint, it is far too early to stage manage events in support of the AWB renewal. So smooth out your tin foil hats and leave them carefully pressed between heavy books.

GinSlinger
July 7, 2003, 04:26 PM
BAB & PDModerator:

The image is definetly saboted 30-30 rounds. I have seen them shot before. Just a .22 cal bullet in a plastic "wadding" in a 30-30 shell. The "wadding" is designed to shed after the round leaves the barrell. The ones I have seen used were for use on squirells and rabbits. Lots of velocity, and makes two rifles out of one.

GinSlinger

HBK
July 7, 2003, 04:51 PM
I bet they got the idea from watching Bowling for Columbine. That had to be what made them snap.

Shalako
July 7, 2003, 04:58 PM
I heard that they may be tried as adults for this. In that case, maybe capital punishment will come into play. Do you folks think execution for this type of thing is warranted? I do. I would like to believe that it would make other such deviants reconsider their plans, but then again it could further antagonize a disenfranchised youth against Authority. (?)

You just keep hearing more and more about these types of psycho plots and there may be nothing you can do to keep psychos from thinking its a good idea to go out in a blaze of glory.

Public hanging would at least cause some reflection on someone's life choices.

Tamara
July 7, 2003, 05:17 PM
My first thought, upon seeing CNN endlessly loop footage of the obligatory junk-on-the-bunk display, is "that is the saddest batch of yard-sale-reject firearms to use for a Playstation-fueled killing spree I've ever seen." How is the shy and reclusive lad supposed to go through his Neo-from-The-Matrix moves in his mind with a rusty Marlin .30-30? :scrutiny:

Folks, if your kids are planning on stealing your guns to shoot up the neighborhood and leave us watching endless pictures of your collection laid out the floor on TV, at least buy some photogenic firearms and try and keep them somewhat rust free, okay? If I can make out the patina of rust on your Marlin 336 on a 19" Trinitron from twenty feet away through the haze of the smoking section of the local fern bar, that is just unsat.

:evil:

Triad
July 7, 2003, 05:42 PM
Shalako, why would capital punishment come into play? They didn't actually hurt anyone as far as I can see.

Alan Smithiee
July 7, 2003, 05:45 PM
the pic on CNN looked like a M1 Carbine, a lever of some sort, and what sure looks like a win 1897 pump shotgun.

http://tinyurl.com/g8g1

and I was astounded that they actualy reported the bit about "2 boxes of .22 add up to 1000 rounds right there"



(I refuse to pay to watch CNN video footage online)

mjydrafter
July 7, 2003, 05:45 PM
The first reports of this I heard were of "Battle ready teens...", then they showed the massive cache of pre WWII designs...Don't get me wrong, a lever gun, SKS, or a m1903 is a deadly weapon. But, from the headlines I was expecting the shelves that Neo and Trinity used to get ready to take the agents.

Similar to the "terrorist/aryan/white middle aged man" they arrested in Baltimore. YELLOW JOURNALISM.

Shalako
July 7, 2003, 05:47 PM
Wishfull thinking I guess? No really, I figured if you conspire to go have a masacre that would be a capital offence. I'm obviously no legal expert, this just seems like the type of activity we would want to discourage "in the harshest possible way."

:confused:

GinSlinger
July 7, 2003, 05:56 PM
Shalako--what CAPITAL crime was commited? Excecution for assult? What have we come to?

GinSlinger

Shalako
July 7, 2003, 06:02 PM
You're probably right GinSlinger. Maybe I jumped to conclusions.

I just try to think of how I would of handled Harris and Klebold if I (the law) caught them on the way to do their infamous deed. This NJ case seems like that situation to me.....

Am I wrong to make that conclusion?

Cosmoline
July 7, 2003, 06:04 PM
I trust any LEO spokesman (from the east coast esp.) just exactly as far as I could throw him. Their trustworthiness was pretty much established during the nonsense over the DC sniper attacks.

Harold Mayo
July 7, 2003, 06:19 PM
AP release:

[quote]OAKLYN, N.J. (July 7) - An alleged plot by three teenagers to kill their enemies and then target other victims at random unraveled when they tried to carjack a motorist and were arrested, authorities said.

''We could have had a disaster here in Oaklyn,'' Camden County Prosecutor Vincent Sarubbi said Sunday night after police said they uncovered the trio's cache of guns, knives and swords in this small town near Philadelphia.

Matthew Lovett, 18, was arrested along with two boys, ages 15 and 14, whose names were not released. They were charged with attempted murder, weapons offenses and attempted carjacking. Sarubbi said he would seek to have the 14- and 15-year-olds tried as adults.

Lovett, who is accused of pointing a gun at the police officer who arrested him, also was charged with aggravated assault, Sarubbi said.

Authorities seized two rifles, a shotgun, two handguns, two swords, several knives and 2,000 rounds of ammunition. Additional weapons were found at Lovett's home. Sarubbi said the weapons belonged to Lovett's father and were legal.

Question: If the weapons were legal and belonged to the father of one of the boys, then why is the weapon "cache" attributed to the two kids? Does this mean, if that reasoning is followed, that my 3-year old and 2-year old have a sizable "weapons cache"...?

A phone message left Sunday night with his father, Ron Lovett, was not returned. In an interview with CNN on Monday, he described his son as a good youngster who became ''kind of withdrawn'' after his mother died nine years ago.

Lovett, who described himself as a gun collector and target shooter, said his son was never interested in guns. ''I don't think he'd know how to use one,'' he said.

Later in the morning, a family spokesman, Tom Crymes, read a letter from Ron Lovett offering his apology ''for what my son has done'' and expressing the hope his son would receive counseling.

Sarubbi said the attacks had been planned over the course of several months. The suspects intended to target people at random once they had attacked specific victims, police said.

Sarubbi said three people believed to be intended victims were notified Sunday of the alleged plot. The prosecutor declined to identify them, but police indicated they were students.

Mathew Rich, 34, who reported the carjacking attempt, said he was leaving for work when he saw the three teens, dressed in trench coats and standing in front of Oaklyn Public School.

One crossed the street in front of him, opened his coat to reveal a handgun, then signaled for his friends. Rich said he drove around them, then notified police.

When Rich returned to the area after driving to the police station, he saw the weapons being confiscated.

''These guys were ready for a war,'' Rich said.

Ahem...if that pitiful little weapons "cache" means that they were ready for a war, then what does that make many of us here at THR ready for...?

Lovett was ordered held in Camden County Jail on $1 million bail. The younger suspects were being held at the Camden County juvenile detention center.

Samaditz
July 7, 2003, 06:28 PM
Thank God for the incompetence of these teens.

If I understand the story correctly, these kids had in their possession rifles, a shotgun, handguns, plenty of ammunition, swords and knives. At least one of them had some sort of martial arts training. They had almost half a year of prior planning. They were out for blood, yet all they managed to accomplish was a pathetically bothced carjacking and their own quiet, uneventful arrest.

I apologize if this sounds offensive or insensitive.

-John

Shalako
July 7, 2003, 06:46 PM
I don't think the people they were planning to kill would of cared if it was a HK P7 or a Lorcin that did them in. Rusty lever action or a Sig 550. Its not the inanimate objects that rile me, its the intent of the dirt bags who wanted to do harm with them.

While they sit in their cells and think about what they were up to, I think it would be helpful for them to know that at least one citizen wants them to get the chair. That oughta add some new dimension to their thoughts....

Ryder
July 7, 2003, 07:05 PM
If they'd have loaded that lever action tube full of Remington Accellerators and touched one off there's a good chance they'd have saved the cost of a trial for the one pulling the trigger. Pointy bullets are a definate no-no.

Zedicus
July 7, 2003, 07:20 PM
mjydrafter:
Don't get me wrong, a lever gun, SKS, or a m1903 is a deadly weapon.

So is a Baseball bat or any other Blunt Solid Object :)
I'm not making light of this, but i'm pointing out the Unnecisary 'Demonisation' by the Media of the fact that they had Guns and Bladed Weapons.

If it were Sticks/Pipes/Baseball Bats would they have 'Demonised' those in the same manner?

I doubt it...

Over Here the Favorete for Car Jackings is a 5 Iron.....but does that make the news?
Nope, only if it's a Knife/Sword or Gun...Then they blow things out of proportion....

BallisticTip
July 7, 2003, 07:40 PM
Quote:
________________________________________________________________
Can anyone tell me what kind of ammo this is? I've never seen anything quite like it. This was apparently seized from the kids.

Edit: I can't seem to get the image attached. The picture is one I found on the Fox News website at: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,91186,00.html

The images are to the right near the upper part of the page.
__________________________________________________________________

Looks like some of the old RemingtonÊAccelerator, 22 cal bullet in a 30 cal sabot made from, 1978 to 1999.
http://www.ammo-one.com/3030ACC.jpg

jsalcedo
July 7, 2003, 10:23 PM
"that is the saddest batch of yard-sale-reject firearms to use for a Playstation-fueled killing spree I've ever seen



Looks like my gun collection brown patina and all.

I sure as heck wouldn't want my guns on TV.

I get enough snotty stares
at the range when I shoot my SMLE, Mosin Nagant and 1950's vintage Winchester. Even my ammo is ugly, Egyptian 30.06 that takes 3 primer strikes, WWI vintage 45acp and some .38 brass I've reloaded 50 times and never tumbled.

Some of us have obsolete ugly guns with dented stocks and little or no bluing that certainly would not look good on the 6:00 news

Sean Smith
July 8, 2003, 08:36 AM
Yeah, ugly guns would kill my sense of humor too. :evil:

Nathaniel Firethorn
July 8, 2003, 09:45 AM
Saw one of the cretins' fathers on the teevee Morning Pravda. this am. Said that his son was: a twelve-year-old in an eighteen-year-old's body.I hope the dad gets it, too, for leaving guns and ammo out where an ignorant and vicious twelve-year-old could get at them.

That's an area of PRNJ law I'm unfamiliar with, but I'll post it in the "Ask Evan Nappen" board on www.njcsd.org . (For those unfamiliar, Evan Nappen is the most prominent pro-gun attorney in PRNJ. That part of njcsd is members-only though -- but it's in a good cause.)

- pdmoderator

Tamara
July 8, 2003, 10:54 AM
Glad to see someone got it. ;)




jsalcedo,

I have a Chinese Mauser I paid $50 for that is uglier than all your guns put together, but that's not really funny, now, is it? ;)

mtnbkr
July 8, 2003, 11:12 AM
I hope the dad gets it, too, for leaving guns and ammo out where an ignorant and vicious twelve-year-old could get at them.

I heard on the radio this morning that the father kept the guns locked up. The uncle, dad's bro I assume, claimed that the kid either knew where the key was stashed or jimmied the lock.

Chris

Alan Smithiee
July 8, 2003, 11:39 AM
I used to have a 1916 win '97 pump that had been in someone's attick for 40 years, rusted, chips in the stock, bought it for $50.00

once I cleaned the oil and dust out and scraped the surface rust off it. it shot just fine at every CAS event and range session I took it to.

ugly as sin. dependable as... as... I don't know anything else that dependable....

do we have a proper list of what this massive arsenal to equipt a army for war is yet? so far most of it looks like the '97, some .22's, the sks, a SA pistol.

Nathaniel Firethorn
July 8, 2003, 11:39 AM
I heard on the radio this morning that the father kept the guns locked up. The uncle, dad's bro I assume, claimed that the kid either knew where the key was stashed or jimmied the lock. Now that I think about it, that's not a great situation either. If Dad had to keep the guns locked up from his own adult-age kid, then he had no business having one of the two in his house.

- pdmoderator

Alan Smithiee
July 8, 2003, 11:43 AM
oh for Petes sake! looks like no mater what the father did someone here is gonna crucify him.

he should have had them locked up, he shouldn't have had to have them locked up, if he needed to have them locked up then he shouldn't have had them.

anyone tell us what the law is in NJ on storage?

Tamara
July 8, 2003, 11:53 AM
I'm trying to figure out how daddums could have been in any way culpable for the activities of a son who was old enough to vote. :confused:

Heck, in most of the world prior to the 20th Century, every one of those boys was old enough to be considered an adult. They all would have had their first pair of long pants, donned the toga praetextis, stood up in front of the congregation and said "today I am a man", and here we are dithering about whether daddy had the guns locked up tight enough? :scrutiny:

geekWithA.45
July 8, 2003, 12:48 PM
NJ Law on storage:

Summary:

A gun lock must be sold with each gun. The gun must be locked when it leaves the store for the first time. The gunshop must have a large sign that reads something along the lines of "It's a crime to leave a loaded firearm within easy access of a minor"

------------------------------------------------------
2C:58-15. Minor's access to a loaded firearm; penalty, conditions
1. a. A person who knows or reasonably should know that a minor is likely to gain access to a loaded firearm at a premises under the person's control commits a disorderly persons offense if a minor gains access to the firearm, unless the person:

(1) Stores the firearm in a securely locked box or container;



(2) Stores the firearm in a location which a reasonable person would believe to be secure; or

(3) Secures the firearm with a trigger lock.



b. This section shall not apply:



(1) To activities authorized by section 14 of P.L.1979, c.179, (C.2C:58-6.1), concerning the lawful use of a firearm by a minor; or

(2) Under circumstances where a minor obtained a firearm as a result of an unlawful entry by any person.

c. As used in this act, "minor" means a person under the age of 16.

-----------------------------------------------------
Notes:

A) This only applies to LOADED firearms
B) Putting a trigger lock on a LOADED firearm is a really good way to cause an uncontrolled discharge of said firearm.
C) Minors for this purpose are under 16.

Conclusion: Daddums will get off with a good lawyer, expect more safe storage laws coming soon.

Alan Smithiee
July 8, 2003, 01:07 PM
thanks Geek. yah, but the civil suits are gonna send him to the poor house for the rest of his life (you can bet some lawyer is going to find a "client" to sue him for something, pain and suffering, "it might have been ME!" or someone who's name or kids name showed up on the alleged "hit list")

Nando Aqui
July 8, 2003, 01:15 PM
From FoxNews:

===================================================
"Craig Mitnick, an attorney for Matthew Lovett, told a TV news program on Monday that his client said he "never, ever was going hurt anyone." Mitnick said the rounds of ammunition that police found were more than 20 years old and might not have detonated."
====================================================

Ammunition might not have detonated because it was 20 years old?! :confused: - - Where do these attorneys go to school? :rolleyes: Or do they?

Moparmike
July 8, 2003, 01:38 PM
2C:58-15. Minor's access to a loaded firearm; penalty, conditions
1. a. A person who knows or reasonably should know that a minor is likely to gain access to a loaded firearm at a premises under the person's control commits a disorderly persons offense if a minor gains access to the firearm, unless the person:

(1) Stores the firearm in a securely locked box or container;
(2) Stores the firearm in a location which a reasonable person would believe to be secure; or
(3) Secures the firearm with a trigger lock.
Wouldnt this apply not to the father, but to the 18yr old who supplied the weapons to the 14 and 15yr olds?:confused: According the People's Republik of New Jersey-stan's laws stated above, the father locked it up, and there wasnt a minor in the house to "supply" the weapons to. How is this supplying?

Anyone else see this, or am I just nuts?

Cameron Lamont
July 8, 2003, 01:44 PM
I see it but you are still nuts.

Bruce H
July 8, 2003, 02:29 PM
I see no pertanant reason to let them live. They are complete idiots with no sense of right or wrong. They will come back to bite again. Get rid of them.

LightPlanePilot
July 8, 2003, 02:34 PM
actually, just ban children and most of the major crimes would have been prevented.

the guns were just implements.

Nathaniel Firethorn
July 8, 2003, 03:32 PM
I'm trying to figure out how daddums could have been in any way culpable for the activities of a son who was old enough to vote. :confused: Daddums raises Snookie socially retarded enough to hatch a plan to break into Daddums' gun locker and start offing all the bad kids that were mean to him.

Legally, not a crime. Morally?

- pdmoderator

Alan Smithiee
July 8, 2003, 04:37 PM
sheesh.. "it's all my parents fault!!!! they didn't teach me right!"

jsalcedo
July 8, 2003, 04:51 PM
To be honest I can can have some empathy for the kid that gets constantly
picked on and has a crappy home life.

I was there and spent time convincing my outcast friends not to kill themselves or go off the deep end (luckily they were hippy spawn and had no guns)

Kids sometimes feel they have no place to turn and their life is already over
so why not take the bullies with them.

This shortsighted thinking usually self corrects once highschool is over.

I'm really surprised that this NJ and columbine stuff doesn't happen more often. Thankfully it doesn't

Tamera,

I have a Chinese Mauser I paid $50 for that is uglier than all your guns put together, but that's not really funny, now, is it?

Lets start a "pics of ugly guns" thread and then lets see whats funny;)

Nathaniel Firethorn
July 9, 2003, 10:24 AM
"Fault" is not a zero-sum game. Every sane adult is 100% responsible for their own actions. So if Dad screws up Junior and Junior decides to pull a Columbine, then Junior is 100% guilty. Dad might not be legally culpable, but I think he bears some moral responsibility for how his kid grows up.

- pdmoderator

Baba Louie
July 9, 2003, 11:20 AM
Some peoples kids just grow up into older and more dangerous criminals... thats all.

Now they all get to learn more at the hands of the older, more wizened, institutionalized citizens under total gov't control for a short spell.

They'll bear watching, I'd say.

Timely, convenient, no real harm...

All the makings of another documentary... and a new law or too.

Adios

Alan Smithiee
July 9, 2003, 12:47 PM
I grew up to be an honest, hardworking, self employed, law abiding, gun owning person who dontates time and money to charity and was elected president of the local range club. despite being the tormented "nerd" in school and growing up in a alcoholic/ RXdrug addict household in a hightly disfunctional (and extreamly anti gun) family and govt Foster and Group Care.

my younger brother has been on probation since he was 13 (he's now 39), long long long rap sheet, he deals drugs, Drug Addict and Alcoholic, steals cars, assualts cops, beats women, raises dogs for pit fights and who knows what else.

same upbringing. totaly differnt results.

did My parents do a good or bad job of raising us?

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