NRA "Gun Rights" Guns of Para-Ordnance


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HankB
September 2, 2007, 08:47 PM
The September 2007 issue of American Rifleman magazine has a spread by field editor Wiley Clapp on a couple of Para-Ordnance .45s . . . these are billed as "Gun Rights" guns since for each one purchased PO will donate $25 to the NRA to fight to preserve the 2nd Amendment.

There were two things that struck me as funny in this article, the first being the assertion that Para-Ordnance - a Canadian company - has changed its name to "Para USA." Yet in the sidebars listing stats on the pistols, the manufacturer is still listed as Para-Ordnance of Toronto, Ontario, Canada. I guess Ontario is the 51st state, eh?

Okay, maybe its a typo, maybe the name change is TOO new to have percolated through all the literature.

But the second item I found amusing was Wiley Clapp's . . . creative . . . description of the pistols' performance; consider this gem:

. . . I ran a couple of boxes of 230-gr. ammuntion through the pistols to get a feel for them. Like many .45s, they are intolerant of anything less than a firm grasp, and they do need to be carefully broken-in. After a breaking-in period and postive lubrication, it was time to do a Ransom Rest evaluation . . . I can commend the guns to you from the standpoint of inherent accuracy and general handling. Quite often, test reports in American Rifleman of other firearms - including .45s - either state there were no failures of any kind, or that there were "X" failures to feed or eject, or something of the sort.

Is it just me, or does the careful parsing in Clapp's statement fairly scream "Jammamatic?"

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Muddflap
September 3, 2007, 08:31 PM
A break in period, and positive lubrication, sounds like my KelTec.

HankB
September 4, 2007, 06:10 AM
Notice that Wiley Clapp commended the pistol for " . . . inherent accuracy and general handling . . ." NOT reliability!

JonP
September 4, 2007, 06:47 AM
I have a Para single stack (not the gun rights one, but it's basically the same gun). Extraordinarily reliable - so much that it's my carry gun now. I love both my Paras.

MaterDei
September 4, 2007, 07:02 AM
American Rifleman is only good for the pictures.

1911 guy
September 4, 2007, 08:25 AM
I read the same article and had the same impression. Coupling that with my experience with a ParaOrdnance SSP, I'll pass. If I spend a few hundred bucks, it's not going to be on a paperweight.

wally
September 4, 2007, 10:59 PM
Is it just me, or does the careful parsing in Clapp's statement fairly scream "Jammamatic?"

If he was reviewing a double stack gun, I'd say yes. I've had to work on most of my double stack Para .45 mags and consider them strictly range guns along with anything else based on Para mag tubes (Armscor/RIA 1911-A2, Kimber BP, Bul M5)

the assertion that Para-Ordnance - a Canadian company - has changed its name to "Para USA."

I suspect its along the same lines as Honda USA. or any other US branch of a foreign company.

--wally.

Hunter0924
September 5, 2007, 03:06 AM
I will be glad to ask George Wedge about this. From the folks I know who have a Para they function flawless. It won't be long and I will have one of my own.
That is a great program Para started along with a few others.

The Bushmaster
September 5, 2007, 10:52 AM
Funny...I can limp-wrist my Colt .45 ACP and it cycles without even a cough. And I was thinking about a Para Ordnance. Guess I'll go back to thinking about a Kimber...

buzz_knox
September 5, 2007, 10:53 AM
Is Para's "repair facility" still that house in Sevierville, TN?

James NM
September 5, 2007, 06:00 PM
Hey, I don't have a problem buying Canadian. Made in Canada is made in America, North America no less. Nothing wrong with American Rifleman promoting a gun made in America that supports American shooters through the NRA.

If it's not made in the USA, Canada is a close second as far as I'm concerned.

I'd rather own a Canadian made PARA than a Springfield made in Brazil or Croatia, or - you name the gun & country.

Dang, if I knew the Canadian National Anthem I break out in song.:D

obm
September 5, 2007, 06:09 PM
I'd rather own a Canadian made PARA than a Springfield made in Brazil

isn't brazil part of south AMERICA?

:)

James NM
September 5, 2007, 06:39 PM
isn't brazil part of south AMERICA?


Last I heard, Brazil is, in fact, in South America.

I'm just saying I'd rather keep my money in North America. I'm kind of partial to products made in North America (when you can find them). I'll send my money to Canada over Brazil (or any other South or Central American country) any day.

The North American Continent is my personal favorite. Does that make me a communist or something?:neener:

HankB
September 5, 2007, 07:10 PM
I don't own a Para . . . because it's been my observation that they do put out a lot of pistols that don't work right. Now, just from handling their pistols in a gun shop, Para has improved their workmanship quite a bit over, say, 10 years ago . . . but when I see other shooters (note use of the plural) having problems with a particular make/model, I tend to avoid it.

(And the only pistol I have that seems to be sensitive to limp-wristing is a first generation G17. )

Hoppy590
September 5, 2007, 10:50 PM
never experienced a gun related problem with my Para p-14. had one or two ammo related ones. but no gun related ones. very well built. no regrets

Vonderek
September 6, 2007, 09:51 AM
Have an early 14-45 LDA. Never had a FTF, digests everything fed to it just fine. I use factory mags and Mec-Gar and no problems whatsoever.

Unless one only owns S&W, Colt, NAA and Ruger handguns I don't think the complaint about Canada being the country of origin is legit.

tinygnat219
September 6, 2007, 09:52 AM
Nah, if I wanted a 1911, I wouldn't pay Para's prices for one. I can also donate money to the NRA on my own too. It's a publicity stunt that makes little to no sense.

40SW
September 6, 2007, 12:49 PM
This is certainly not new. Its actually exceptionally brilliant marketing and it works, otherwise they would not be doing it. Many manufacturers like Taurus, S&W , and North American place $10 off first years memebership coupons in their cases for new firearms purchases.
As far as Para, well, easily one of the finest manufacturers of 1911 and a leader in doublestack 1911 innovation. As I recall, the founder recently passed away, he was a Hungarian immigrant who was a staunch proponent of gun rights. Makes me happy to see a former soviet bloc immigrant go so far and recognize gun rights and what tyrrany can take away from us. Lets remember that although the 2nd ammendment is sacred, nothing wrong with those on the international scene promoting gun rights, there are many innovators and activists in places like Switzerland, Russia, the Czech Republic and other industrialized nations who are leading the fight. I see it as a plus.

The Bushmaster
September 6, 2007, 01:01 PM
Hummmm...Let's see...Mexico is in North America...Would you buy mexican???

Vonderek
September 6, 2007, 02:41 PM
Hummmm...Let's see...Mexico is in North America...Would you buy mexican???
Only if it says "Mezcal" on it!

spencerhut
September 6, 2007, 02:56 PM
Is Para's "repair facility" still that house in Sevierville, TN?

Yes, and here is the quality of work they are doing . . .
http://picasaweb.google.com/spencerhutc/Para45SSPSE1BackFromFactory82707
http://picasaweb.google.com/spencerhutc/ParaEjectorPart2

It's still broken awaiting repair attempt #2. They seem to be trying to rectify the problem in good faith. Before this happened the gun ran like a Swiss watch.

Colt
September 6, 2007, 04:00 PM
Many manufacturers like Taurus, S&W , and North American place $10 off first years memebership coupons in their cases for new firearms purchases.

And it's not just American companies doing this. My recently-purchased HK came with an HK-branded NRA discount certificate.

Hoppy590
September 6, 2007, 05:17 PM
wow not only is this thread ripe with assumptions but im starting to taste a hint of nationalism

ASM826
September 6, 2007, 06:17 PM
I don't know about the gun assumptions, but if all you got was a hint of nationalism, I'd be more than happy to deliver a truckload. I am an American. my belief is that the United States is the best thing that ever wandered down the pike. Whatever things we can do to keep the country strong and free are the things we should be doing. On some level, some of the people posting have the feeling that the loss of national manufacturing capacity is not a good thing. Finding a way to purchase something still Made in America is getting harder and harder.

vynx
September 6, 2007, 09:05 PM
I have a P12 (the officers size para but high capacity grip).

Its a jammomatic for sure. I have read that the Para magazines are the cause and that replacing the springs with wolf springs can fix the problem. I plan on trying that but it erroded my confidence in semi-auto's so much I got a .45 revolver.

Father Knows Best
September 7, 2007, 10:21 AM
I have a Para SSP that I bought brand new two or three years ago for $595. It is still my favorite 1911, and I own Kimbers, Colts and SA's, too. From day one it has been 100% reliable, and is also among my most accurate 1911's. It feeds, fired and ejects everything from 185 to 230 grain, and from ball to HP to SWC, with no problems of any kind. The trigger was near perfect out of the box, breaking cleanly at a consistent 4.7 pounds.

In fact, I was so impressed with the SSP that I went out and bought a Para CCW (CCO pattern, LDA trigger) to replace my Glock for CCW use. The CCW was just as good as the SSP in terms of performance, but I eventually sold it because I wanted something lighter (the CCW is all steel) and with a traditional single action trigger. Since Para Ordnance didn't make an alloy frame CCO pattern 1911, I bought a Colt Gunsite CCO. The Gunsite CCO cost me $500 more than my SSP, and wasn't anywhere near as good. The Colt needed almost $200 worth of reliability and trigger work before I could get it to run and shoot reliably enough that I would feel comfortable carrying it. I'm still not sure that I trust it as much as my SSP.

I will note that as with all 1911's, magazine performance is critical to successful functioning of the gun. I have never been a fan of Para Ordnance mags. I use nothing but Wilson and CMC mags in all of my 1911's these days. My Para mags are still in the wrap in the box the gun came in, and that's where they'll stay.

buzz_knox
September 7, 2007, 10:27 AM
I have never been a fan of Para Ordnance mags.

Para is somewhat notorious for the dimensional variances in its high-cap mags. At one class, a guy had a P12 that would flat not run with some of his factory mags. When we compared them, the dimensions were completely off. What made it even worse for him is that he was from California and had paid top dollar for pre-ban junk.

dralarms
September 7, 2007, 09:30 PM
I have a para 14-45lda that eats anything I can feed it, shoot it's my bedside SD weapon. got it and 3 extra mags mounted in a walll safe in my bedroom, mine is just about the sweetest shooting 1911 styled firearm I have ever owned (I know it's DA not SA but it's still styled after the 1911).

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