And another one bites the dust...


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bill larry
September 4, 2007, 12:50 AM
I just saw this and thought it very odd as a fellow musician here in D/FW:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,295626,00.html

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bill larry
September 4, 2007, 12:51 AM
Edie Brickell & New Bohemians Keyboard Player Shot to Death by Girlfriend's Neighbor After Domestic Spat
Monday, September 03, 2007

E-MAIL STORY
PRINTER FRIENDLY VERSION
DALLAS — Jeffrey Carter Albrecht, a keyboard player for the band Edie Brickell & New Bohemians, was shot to death early Monday while trying to kick in the door of his girlfriend's neighbor, police said.

The neighbor, who was not immediately identified, was asleep in bed when he woke up around 4 a.m. to his wife screaming that someone was breaking into the house, according to a police report. The neighbor yelled through the door for Albrecht to leave and then fired his handgun through the door.

Albrecht was shot in the head and died at the scene, police said.

The neighbor believed a burglar was trying to break in and fired a shot through the door around 4 a.m., Dallas police spokesman Sgt. Gil Cerda said. The case is under investigation and no arrests have been made.

News reports cited police saying Albrecht beat up his girlfriend and then tried to kick down the neighbor's door in a drunken rage. The couple had no history of domestic violence, but the girlfriend had bruises on her face, police said. She did not suffer serious injury.

Albrecht apparently struck his girlfriend in the face several times and hit her in the back once she fell. She later managed to lock him out of the house, according to the reports.


"He was at his girlfriend's house last night," said Danny Balis, Albrecht's roommate. "He left the house and went next door and — for whatever reason, which we don't know — he knocked on the neighbor's door. And from what I understand, he was persistent. I don't know if there was a verbal exchange, but the person panicked and fired a shot through the door."

The death of Albrecht, who also played keyboard and guitar and sang in the Dallas rock band Sorta with Balis, stunned friends and those who knew him in the North Texas music community.

"He is not a violent person," said Carrie Garcia, Sorta's manager. "He is cool as a cucumber, shy, always wanted to make a joke in a situation that may be a little tense."

Albrecht, who went by his middle name, had been with the New Bohemians since 1999, according to the band's Web site. Albrecht played several times with Brickell's husband, Paul Simon, Garcia said. He also played with Texas musician Charlie Sexton, a renowned guitarist.

Albrecht was working on a solo album that Balis called "the best thing he has ever done."

"He was the best musician I've ever played with — no question," Balis said. "He could play anything. It's a shame not enough people outside of Dallas heard him."

jbauch357
September 4, 2007, 01:00 AM
Am I the only person that sees a world of hurt coming for the guy that shot him through the door?

Realistically what would have been the best way to handle this? Wait until he breaks through the door and then let loose hell on him, or is a single shot through the door an acceptable approach? I don't think the latter is likely to be popular...

kingpin008
September 4, 2007, 02:55 AM
I'm not up on the particular rules n' regs in that area, but this illustrates EXACTLY why I'd NEVER shoot through a door at ANYONE. Sure, the dude was being violent, and attempting to break in. Sure, he could possibly have done some damage if he had gotten in. BUT - The occupants of the apartment were safe and sound inside their apartment, with no immediate danger of being attacked. The dude chose to shoot through a door, which was seperating him from the potential attacker, and the guy was killed.

It's tragic, and I'm very sorry the man was killed. He was doing some very violent and dangerous things, but I can't see an individual on the other side of a door being an immediate enough threat to me to warrant shooting at him.

And what if there had been another person out there with the guy who was shot? What if the round went through the door, through the guy, and struck the innocent? However unlikely, that's a damn important variable. Granted, you can't have a perfect set of variables with a self-defense shooting - but that's a little much to risk without an immediate and unavoidable threat of deadly harm coming your way.

/steps down off the soap-box
//takes a deep breath

JimmerJammerMrK
September 4, 2007, 02:59 AM
He should have called the cops, not killed the guy.

jbauch357
September 4, 2007, 03:08 AM
yep, I'm thinking that I would have called the cops... and have been waiting for him inside the house with a 12 gauge, just in case he broke through before the cops showed up.

Jim March
September 4, 2007, 03:18 AM
He decided to turn into an animal. And died like one.

Bob R
September 4, 2007, 03:22 AM
Shooting through the door is a bad move.....but it is Texas, and....

§ 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in
lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is
justified in using force against another when and to the degree the
actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to
prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful
interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible,
movable property by another is justified in using force against the
other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force
is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the
property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit
after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no
claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using
force, threat, or fraud against the actor.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.


§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.





And this prior section ( I bolded the one part)

§ 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person
is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.31;
(2) if a reasonable person in the actor's situation
would not have retreated; and
(3) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect himself against the other's use or
attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual
assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.
(b) The requirement imposed by Subsection (a)(2) does not
apply to an actor who uses force against a person who is at the time
of the use of force committing an offense of unlawful entry in the
habitation of the actor.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 5316, ch. 977, § 5, eff.
Sept. 1, 1983; Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept.
1, 1994; Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 235, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.


They do have a fairly broad use of force law in place for night time.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out. I guess it depends on the DA and the lawyer the shooter gets.

bob

jeepmor
September 4, 2007, 03:24 AM
I agree, no shooting through doors until its security fails, after that, security is my job. Police won't be there that fast, but they will record it on the 911 call. There is a lot of background information missing here. Why was he kicking the door in?

Robert Hairless
September 4, 2007, 03:29 AM
"He is not a violent person," said Carrie Garcia, Sorta's manager. "He is cool as a cucumber, shy, always wanted to make a joke in a situation that may be a little tense."

Perhaps the neighbor whose door this drunken, non violent person was breaking down at 4:00 AM did not have a sense of humor.

Standing Wolf
September 4, 2007, 04:39 AM
It's tragic, and I'm very sorry the man was killed. He was doing some very violent and dangerous things, but I can't see an individual on the other side of a door being an immediate enough threat to me to warrant shooting at him.

Unless, of course, there are there of them, or they're too spaced out on drugs to feel or think anything, or they've got machetes and real bad hang-overs, or it's just one crazy-stupid homicidal maniac who happens to be in a rotten mood, or...

By the time you've identified and assessed the threat, the odds are high you'll be dead. That gives the criminal the benefit of the doubt, all right—but is an extra measure of "understanding" worth your life?

ojibweindian
September 4, 2007, 06:06 AM
Lesson?

Don't go pounding thr crap out of a door at 4 in the morning while in a drunken rage.

Sometimes, stupidity is fatal.

30 cal slob
September 4, 2007, 06:32 AM
i am not a real fan of firing a shot through the door at an unseen perp (seems to me a violation of one of the four rules), but i guess there might some times where it is necessary (as an aside, i'm also not a fan of the the band the perp belonged to ...) :scrutiny:

i'm sure after this there will be railing for more gun control from the music industry (the Nuge excepted).


Edie Brickell & New Bohemians Keyboard Player Shot to Death by Girlfriend's Neighbor After Domestic Spat

Monday , September 03, 2007

AP

DALLAS —

Jeffrey Carter Albrecht, a keyboard player for the band Edie Brickell & New Bohemians, was shot to death early Monday while trying to kick in the door of his girlfriend's neighbor, police said.

The neighbor, who was not immediately identified, was asleep in bed when he woke up around 4 a.m. to his wife screaming that someone was breaking into the house, according to a police report. The neighbor yelled through the door for Albrecht to leave and then fired his handgun through the door.

Albrecht was shot in the head and died at the scene, police said.

The neighbor believed a burglar was trying to break in and fired a shot through the door around 4 a.m., Dallas police spokesman Sgt. Gil Cerda said. The case is under investigation and no arrests have been made.

News reports cited police saying Albrecht beat up his girlfriend and then tried to kick down the neighbor's door in a drunken rage. The couple had no history of domestic violence, but the girlfriend had bruises on her face, police said. She did not suffer serious injury.

Albrecht apparently struck his girlfriend in the face several times and hit her in the back once she fell. She later managed to lock him out of the house, according to the reports.

"He was at his girlfriend's house last night," said Danny Balis, Albrecht's roommate. "He left the house and went next door and — for whatever reason, which we don't know — he knocked on the neighbor's door. And from what I understand, he was persistent. I don't know if there was a verbal exchange, but the person panicked and fired a shot through the door."

The death of Albrecht, who also played keyboard and guitar and sang in the Dallas rock band Sorta with Balis, stunned friends and those who knew him in the North Texas music community.

"He is not a violent person," said Carrie Garcia, Sorta's manager. "He is cool as a cucumber, shy, always wanted to make a joke in a situation that may be a little tense."

Albrecht, who went by his middle name, had been with the New Bohemians since 1999, according to the band's Web site. Albrecht played several times with Brickell's husband, Paul Simon, Garcia said. He also played with Texas musician Charlie Sexton, a renowned guitarist.

Albrecht was working on a solo album that Balis called "the best thing he has ever done."

"He was the best musician I've ever played with — no question," Balis said. "He could play anything. It's a shame not enough people outside of Dallas heard him."

Working Man
September 4, 2007, 06:32 AM
...was shot to death early Monday while trying to kick in the door of his girlfriend's neighbor, police said.

"He left the house and went next door and — for whatever reason, which we don't know — he knocked on the neighbor's door.

Even in at the start of things its geting twisted up.

Mannlicher
September 4, 2007, 06:36 AM
I saw that this morning. I wonder what was going on there? According to friends, this behavior is not normal for him.
Just goes to show that homeowners are armed, and will shoot if they feel threatened.

Glockman17366
September 4, 2007, 06:37 AM
He was probably just pissed off about being stuck in a hasbeen band...
(that group was a one hit wonder, by the way).

MaterDei
September 4, 2007, 06:41 AM
Am I the only person that sees a world of hurt coming for the guy that shot him through the door?

He'll almost certainly be no billed. The only hurt coming to this guy will be emotional, maybe. I agree with Jim on this one; the guy started acting like an animal and died like one.

This guys death is sad, no doubt, but not unjustified.

TonyB
September 4, 2007, 06:50 AM
It's a smile on a dog.......just one for the music geeks:neener:

CZ223
September 4, 2007, 07:27 AM
I do think in this case that the guy was justified. First of all, the man was awakened at 4:00am to the sounds of his wife screaming that someone was trying to break down the door. When he confronts the man through the door and tells him to leave, the man persists in beating on the door. I think at this point, if not sooner, it is obvious that the man is a real threat to anyone inside the house. Saying that he should have waited for the door to give way is kinda like a lawyer arguing that you should have waited for the man with knife to get within arms reach before you shot him because you couldn't really be sure of his intentions until then. As for the people who say he should have called the police first then waited for the man to break down the door, wrong again. The wife should have been on the phone with police and the man did what he was supposed to which was cover the front door and try to disuade the the man on the other side from continuing trying to break in. Now, I am not saying that he did everything right or that he should have shot through the door. I am saying that the man had every reason to believe that he and his wifes lives were in danger and that the man on the other side of the door was not going to give up. Also, you have to realize that the victims did not know if there was more than one bad guy. I find it interesting that many of you think that the decision of shoot/don't shoot rests soley on the strength of the door. If the door gives way shoot, if it doesn't don't shoot. I think it is Neil Boortz or Mike Gallagher who says he never understood the charge of attempted murder. Why , he argues, should someone who tries to kill someone, and fails, be given less of a sentence than someone who manages to complete the task. Should "incompetence" be rewarded? I don't believe so and I also don't believe the victim in this case should have been required to wait until his door failed. The only thing I do take issue with is the fact that the man was shot in the head. If I have to shoot through a door I am going to shoot center of the door just above the door knob because that will give me greater chance of insuring a hit. I also wonder if some of you would have felt differently if this had been some drug crazed fool with a history of violent crime who had been shot. As far as the man on the inside of the house was concerned, it wvery well could have been.

chieftain
September 4, 2007, 08:00 AM
I bet it was an AD/ND.

Fred

bogie
September 4, 2007, 10:05 AM
Well, you know that they'll blame it on gun, and not the footwear...

Flak_Jakett
September 4, 2007, 01:39 PM
Shooting through doors at an enraged attacker trying to kick it down is a viable tactic. As proof, it worked. He took the guy out before he even got in the house, which is better than him getting in the house and doing who knows what. He might come through blasting.

HOWEVER!!!!

Though it is a viable tactic, it may not be legally smart. This is that $250,000 grey area that he might or might not go to jail. IDing your target in a situation like that is a better idea. Call the cops, hunker down in an area in the home where you have a good base of fire and if he succeeds in kicking down the door, welcome him in with some lead buscuits.

Scanr
September 4, 2007, 03:52 PM
CZ223, I think you are right on the money. This man was expected to wait until the door gave way to start firing? I don't think so.

And what if there had been another person out there with the guy who was shot? What if the round went through the door, through the guy, and struck the innocent?

Unless the other person was actively trying to stop this guy from breaking down the door, I would see him as an accomplice and a viable target.

yesit'sloaded
September 4, 2007, 05:48 PM
At noon in broad daylight I will not shoot an unarmed someone banging on the door, I will call the cops let the person outside know I am armed and if they get through before the cops show I will fire. At 4 O'Clock in the bleeding morning anyone dumb enough to try to knock my door down will get a verbal warning followed by a 203 grain argument to leave.

Blackbeard
September 4, 2007, 06:37 PM
It's a smile on a dog.......just one for the music geeks

He wasn't aware of too many things. He knew what he knew, if you know what I mean. ;-)

elrod
September 4, 2007, 07:05 PM
Shooter oughta walk........

Anybody dumb enough....or drunk enough......or wired enough to go akicking on a strangers door at 4 in the morning is just beggin for this weeks Darwin award. What is expected of the guy on the other side of the door?:confused: Hot coffee and conversation about the idiots' intentions? I think not. I am glad Texas law agrees.

Beachmaster
September 4, 2007, 07:21 PM
I just watched a news story on this. It seems that Albrecht was drunk, had beaten his girlfriend, and then she managed to lock him out of the house. Albrecht tried to bust back into that house, before banging and kicking on the neighbors door. He was not knocking, but banging, screaming, kicking and trying to bust into the neighbors house. The neighbor yelled at him to leave, announced he had a gun, and then with Albrecht still trying to force his way into the house, he fired a shot he believed to be "a warning shot over the head of the intruder" so it would scare him away. Unfortunatly, Albrecht was 6' 5" tall, and the bullet hit him in the head and killed him.

The news story I saw portrayed the neighbors and the girlfriend as the victims, and Albrecht as a deranged man in a drunken rage, who had already attacked his girlfriend before trying (for some unknown reason) to enter the neighbors house.

I don't think the neighbor was trying to kill Albrecht with that "warning" shot.

jkingrph
September 4, 2007, 07:27 PM
I do not know how this will play out legally. Texas just amended the castle doctrine law effective 1 Sept 07. basically the victim does not now have to retreat before using deadly force if he feels his life is in danger.

Nil
September 4, 2007, 07:53 PM
I actually had almost this exact same thing (minus the domestic violence) happen to me. I woke to a heavy pounding on my door at 3-4 am. I looked through the peephole to confirm that it was a stranger who was heavily intoxicated and he wasn't visibly armed. However, he was kicking/pounding the door quite hard and I was concerned the door might give way. The guy also kept telling me to let him in in heavily slurred speech and wouldn't listen to my demands that he leave.

I solved the problem by sitting tight, gun in hand, and calling 911. The cops came and scooped him up a few minutes later and calm was restored.

If he managed to bust through, depending on his reaction to seeing me armed, I was completely prepared to shoot.

Thumper
September 4, 2007, 07:58 PM
Am I the only person that sees a world of hurt coming for the guy that shot him through the door?

You ain't from around here, are ya? :scrutiny:

FieroCDSP
September 4, 2007, 08:05 PM
In any other state, this would be: man dead, shooter in jail awaiting man-slaughter (more likely murder) charges. I wish we had that bit of Texas law here. It bad enough to actually worry about break-ins, but to have to worry about using too much force, or wrong force, half-awake at 3am, when someone is kicking in your door....sheesh...when will people wake up and realize there are law-abiding citizens, and criminals, and the criminals have the advantage in the first place in that they KNOW when they're going to commit a crime.

rosco22
September 4, 2007, 08:11 PM
Try kicking in my door at 4am ...........................

Hope the shooter gets off . He prevented an intruder from entering and causeing harm , end of subject .

The drunk you is the real you , one less woman beater to worry about .

Next .

ilcylic
September 4, 2007, 08:21 PM
I wasn't there. It wasn't my door getting kicked in at 0400 hrs. So I'm not going to second guess the shooter. It probably wasn't the best plan, from a legal POV to shoot through the door, but the guy may have had more reason that we're getting out of a 450 word newspaper article.

That said, in his place, in my house, it would be easy enough to warn the guy to go the heck away, and sit with my back to the wall 30 feet away from the door, just in case he makes it through before the police (whom my wife will be calling) get there.

In any case, I feel sorry for the shooter. Pretty much no one wants to have to shoot someone else.

S&Wfan
September 4, 2007, 10:31 PM
A young male adult, at 6'5" of mean, drunken, raging fury is NOT the kind of person I'd want to wait too long on to bust my door down.

The chances are, the neighbors already knew about this guy abusing the girlfriend.

In any event, it ain't that easy shooting a moving target who may be high on drugs and/or in a drunken rage . . . when suddenly your door flies off the hinges and a 6'5" raging bull explodes into YOUR small living room.

The odds ain't 'zackly 100% the the homeowner would be able to make a one-stop hit on a guy like that without risking either losing the gun and/or having to take a shot on a moving subject that might just place other loved ones in the line of penetrating fire.

Poor homeowner. No one should have to go though something like this. I'm sure this shooting will, in the least, haunt him for the rest of his life.

T.

saspic
September 4, 2007, 10:47 PM
Am I the only person that sees a world of hurt coming for the guy that shot him through the door?
Originally posted by Thumper
You ain't from around here, are ya?
Well, even if there are no criminal charges filed, he still has to worry about civil suits on the behalf of the family. They're already saying things like "He wasn't a violent man."
You know they could try and spin the homeowner as being a paranoid gun nut. "Why, he shot him right through the door!"
I hope that doesn't happen, but you never know.

hamourkiller
September 4, 2007, 10:52 PM
In Texas you put your life in the hands of the home owner if you start kicking in doors, especially at night. You are legal to use deadly force to stop several varieties of crime at night.
Kicking in doors to occupied homes is one of them.
If you dont want a hot lead breakfast dont kick on our doors at 4AM!

Fosbery
September 4, 2007, 10:59 PM
The fourth rule us:

Be sure of your target, and what is beyond it.

The shooter, in this case, was not.

Juna
September 4, 2007, 11:11 PM
I can't say that I blame the shooter, and I don't think charges should be filed against him. Who knows what I'd be thinking or do if someone were trying to kick down my door at 4 a.m. I'd like to say I'd call the cops and wait until he got in before pointing a gun at him, but I really can't say for sure without being in the situation at the time under the same circumstances.

My only beef with shooting through an EXTERIOR door is that you don't know who or what is on the other side besides the drunken maniac. You could shoot an innocent passerby (although probably not likely at 4 a.m.). It goes along with knowing your target and what's beyond it. So to me, it violates one of the basic rules of gun safety. Plus, an attorney could argue that maybe the banging was a frantic victim fleeing a rapist or violent criminal and banging on your door for asylum (however unlikely).

I think that interior doors are a little different in that you presumably don't have random innocent people INSIDE your house whom you might accidentally hit (unless you don't know where all of your loved ones are in the house, in which case I wouldn't fire through a door unless I had no other choice). If you've barricaded yourself in your bedroom with all of your loved ones, and drunken maniacs are kicking down your bedroom door, I think it might be hard not to shoot to stop the immediate threat to your family.

Legally, in a state other than Texas, I think you could fry for shooting through a door. In my CCW class, I was told that you ALWAYS have to ID your target before shooting and that you'd be legally screwed if you shoot without doing so.

Gator
September 4, 2007, 11:19 PM
Lesson?

Don't go pounding thr crap out of a door at 4 in the morning while in a drunken rage.

Sometimes, stupidity is fatal.

Ditto!

The shooter was afraid for his wifes and his own life. I sure hope he doesn't charged. As for not knowing what was behind the door,(???) I think the banging, kicking, and screaming gave him a good idea.

Geronimo45
September 4, 2007, 11:27 PM
My only beef with shooting through an EXTERIOR door is that you don't know who or what is on the other side besides the drunken maniac
Usually peepholes in apartment doors, sometimes windows on the sides.

Also: if you wait until he's kicked down the door, you're still shooting in the same direction... only without the added barrier of a door. So it could be spun as safer for other people if you shoot through the door. Seem to recall a case like this in the Midwest. Somebody shot through the door, they died, no charges... IIRC.

Noxx
September 4, 2007, 11:36 PM
I don't think it's a bad shoot.

I'd like to think that in the same situation, I'd have the wife on the phone to 911 while I covered the door to see if he was going to beat on it, or come through it... but I'd like to think a lot of things, I wasn't there.

Bottom line is, the guy was afraid for his life and his wifes, and was responding to an attempted forcible entry in a state where it's legal to do so.

MaterDei
September 4, 2007, 11:39 PM
Well, even if there are no criminal charges filed, he still has to worry about civil suits on the behalf of the family. They're already saying things like "He wasn't a violent man."
You know they could try and spin the homeowner as being a paranoid gun nut. "Why, he shot him right through the door!"
I hope that doesn't happen, but you never know.

Not true. As of 1 September the law states.

Sec. 83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY [AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE]. A defendant who uses force or deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9, is immune from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant's use of force or deadly force, as applicable.

Chapter 9 clearly states that deadly force is justified if...

The actor's belief under Subsection (a)(2) that the deadly force was immediately necessary as described by that subdivision is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the deadly force was used:
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied
habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;

Thumper
September 4, 2007, 11:53 PM
no arrests have been made.

Thanks, beat me to it, MD...

joab
September 4, 2007, 11:58 PM
I also think that it was a tactically unsound action on the part of the shooter to shoot through a door (there's a rule about IDing your target floating around somewhere), but a lot of tactically unsound acts happen in the heat of the moment.
I've always been a no harm on foul type of person

If it can be reasonably proven or supposed that the god natured BG was actually trying to break in then it seems that the shooter is on solid legal ground

chris in va
September 5, 2007, 12:07 AM
Being the analytical Virgo that I am, and certainly not trying to trivialize the situation...

Wonder what firearm/caliber was used.

Troutman
September 5, 2007, 06:08 AM
4 a.m……..breaking into the house?

See what these (Texans) people… say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9ueuorAykI&mode=related&search=

Ragnar Danneskjold
September 6, 2007, 01:01 AM
Bad shoot.

"Be sure of you target and what's behind it."


It doesn't matter that it happened to turn out alright in this one case. Shooting through a door at an unknown target is just wrong.

JKimball
September 6, 2007, 01:54 AM
he fired a shot he believed to be "a warning shot over the head of the intruder" so it would scare him away. Unfortunatly, Albrecht was 6' 5" tall, and the bullet hit him in the head and killed him.


Interesting dilemma for the shooter. I wonder if knowing it was an accidental killing makes him feel better or worse about it than he would if he had intentionally killed him. Sad.

Kindrox
September 6, 2007, 07:43 AM
I don't know if laughing is appropriate in this situation, but this board has a million threads about what gun/ammo should be used to minimize over penetration, because we all know that missed shots (or even hits) are generally going to pass through at least one wall "into the wild".

This guy was foolish if he really fired a shot intended to miss, into the wild.

But shooting through the center of a door as it is being beaten down is definitly safer in my book than waiting for it to give way, and then being face to face with whom ever comes rushing in.

I would aim my shot down so that if I did miss it would go into the front lawn.

Thumper
September 6, 2007, 09:53 AM
I also think that it was a tactically unsound action on the part of the shooter to shoot through a door (there's a rule about IDing your target floating around somewhere),

I submit that the target was successfully ID'd as a hysterical male attempting to kick in a door at 4:00 AM.

McKnife
September 6, 2007, 10:15 AM
I disagree with the majority here... I think it's perfectly necessary to shoot through the door.

In the event that the door's purpose failed, you never know what drugs that freak is hopped up on. You hear stories of people taking multiple center of mass shots and still attacking full force.

Good shoot. One less irresponsible, woman-beating @$$hole.

camslam
September 6, 2007, 12:53 PM
Guys: Easy to second guess this homeowner when you aren't the one that had someone pounding on your door at 4 AM, followed up by trying to kick your door in after warning him to stop and that you are armed.

I posted in Legal Section on this topic that the best we can do is take the situation and asks ourselves what we would do if in a similiar situation. Then be prepared to take action and live with the results. In the meantime, here is a link to a column on just this topic. I thought it was worth reading and it was nice to have someone in the media actually take the time to write a thoughtful, well reasoned, editorial about a shooting.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/localnews/columnists/jfloyd/stories/090607dncolfloyd.2cdf987.html

Don't throw blame at terrified homeowner

08:44 PM CDT on Wednesday, September 5, 2007

Let's start with the unarguable proposition that Carter Albrecht was a popular man with a lot of friends and fans, a hometown celebrity whose fame and talent were nicely balanced by his regular-guy personality.

That's certainly the picture drawn by friends still reeling from the shock and grief of his bizarre death early Monday. After a night of heavy drinking, Mr. Albrecht went out of control, punching his girlfriend repeatedly in the face.

When she locked him outside, he ran to a neighbor's house and tried to kick the back door down. He was killed by a single shot fired by the terrified homeowner inside.

Those same friends insist passionately that the events that preceded the shooting were entirely out of character for Mr. Albrecht. He's described as a kindly, unassuming man; they speculate that his rampage might have been triggered by the combination of alcohol and a prescription drug he was taking to quit smoking.

There's no particular reason to disbelieve them. Left there, this story is a tragedy, one of fate's unpredictable lightning strikes.

But the story, inflamed by Mr. Albrecht's celebrity, has spun into not just an epitaph on his passing, but a subtle indictment of the man who shot him.

And that's not right. Police say the homeowner was awakened in the dead of night by an unidentified stranger who tried to kick in his back door.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I would have been scared out of my wits.

The unseen intruder kept trying to break in even after the homeowner shouted that he had a gun and was calling the police. The homeowner fired once, aiming high, striking the 6-foot-5 musician in the head.

In the circumstances, how many of us would first pause to ask, "Are you a murderous crankhead coming to kill everybody in the house, or are you a beloved local musician experiencing an involuntary psychotic break?"

I don't mean to be flippant. But this story is not, ultimately, about the many things that some people are trying to drag into it.

It's not about a gun-besotted, trigger-happy Texas gun culture claiming another victim, nor is it about Mr. Albrecht's fame and popularity, nor is it about whether he was in the habit of beating up his girlfriend (by universal accounts, he was not).

It's not about whether demonic pharmaceutical companies are callously marketing drugs that can turn us into violent zombies.

It's about the other guy, an ordinary guy who was in fear for himself and his wife, who had about three seconds to make a life-and-death decision with which I hope to God I am personally never confronted.

This isn't a judgment on whether people should or shouldn't have guns in the house, and whether those who do should or shouldn't use them when they feel threatened. Legally and morally, those are personal choices that can have lasting and serious consequences.

But based on a confirmation of the available facts from the police, the homeowner who fired the shot is not done justice by this headline that appeared in Wednesday's New York Times: "Musician Is Killed for Banging on a Door."

Yep, that's what we do in Texas with musicians who bang on doors. We shoot 'em in the haid.

While many of the neighbors on the quiet East Dallas street where this happened are understandably fed up with the media (as evidenced by the ones who shut their doors in my face), some are angry that the homeowner is being cast as irresponsible or too-quick-to-shoot.

"Every single person in this neighborhood has said, 'I would do the same thing,' " said Natalee Morse, who lives down the street.

"He's a very gentle guy who works in his yard and talks to the neighbors and goes to work. He is not the neighborhood gun nut."

Police who investigated this sad story seem to agree.

"He had to make an instant decision while somebody was trying to break in," said Dallas police Sgt. Larry Lewis.

The 911 call the homeowner's terrified wife made while all this was happening, Sgt. Lewis said, bears out their version of the event.

"Everything there [on the 911 tape] is consistent with what they told us," he said.

It's not out of line, or even unusual, for people who cared about Carter Albrecht to be scrambling for answers and explanations.

It is out of line to suppose that a man awakened in the middle of the night by a lunatic trying to beat the door down should be able to tell whether it's a popular musician or an escaped convict on the porch.

I wouldn't begrudge Mr. Albrecht's friends and fans their grief. This is a tragedy.

But don't go looking to assign blame. The answer will hurt.

Kimber1911_06238
September 6, 2007, 12:59 PM
shooting someone THROUGH a door will certainly not put you on legal high ground. If they break down the door and charge you, well....that's a different story altogether.

Carl N. Brown
September 6, 2007, 01:38 PM
There are circumstances where a shot through a door at someone
attempting to break in has been accepted as a justifiable shoot.
The important thing to consider is: would the "reasonable person"
believe you were in genuine fear of death or greivous bodily harm?
Personally, I might prefer to hold fire, try to warn the would-be
intruder I was armed, and give them the option of leaving. Sometimes
one can be put in a situation where you feel you must act now or die.

Gator
September 6, 2007, 07:24 PM
Camslam,

Thanks for the excellent article. It is nice to see a fairly reported news story.

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